Affirmative Action?

[paperview]

The Irish,Italians, the Jews have all been discriminated, why are they not included in affirmative action. How long are we suppose to keep (A.A.) it going? 100-200 years more when is enough, enough? The spanish, gays ect. are the new minority. By the way my family and most other Americans were not here when this discrimination occured. So why do we have to be discriminated with by giving blacks preferencial treatment?

White women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action.

^^ A truth few people are aware.

 

[Setarcos]

How do racist laws combat racism?


How can racially biased policies combat racial bias and inequality?


AA is counter-productive.

 

[IanC]

There are 3 forms of AA;
1. preference given amongst equal candidates
2. preference given amongst minimally qualified candidates
3. preference given solely by race or gender despite qualifications.

Few would argue against #1. Many would agree with #2 but the devil is in the details of what 'minimally qualified' means. #3 is supposedly condemned by all, and is in fact considered illegal.

Why then do elite schools choose #3 to grant entrance to most of their minority students? Google 'Sander & Law School' to find copious information that unqualified minority students are admitted, only to perform as poorly as their grades would suggest.

Some make the comment that white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA. This may be true (I dont know it to be a fact) but the difference in the quality of the pool of women to the general pool is not as pronounced as the difference in the pool of minorities. Women receive AA due to forms #1 and #2, whereas minorities (especially blacks) receive AA due to forms #2 and #3.

 

[MizMolly]

Irish and Italians have not had to endure slavery and Jim Crow.

And neither have you.

 

[The Baiter]

There are 3 forms of AA;
1. preference given amongst equal candidates
2. preference given amongst minimally qualified candidates
3. preference given solely by race or gender despite qualifications.

Few would argue against #1. Many would agree with #2 but the devil is in the details of what 'minimally qualified' means. #3 is supposedly condemned by all, and is in fact considered illegal.

Why then do elite schools choose #3 to grant entrance to most of their minority students? Google 'Sander & Law School' to find copious information that unqualified minority students are admitted, only to perform as poorly as their grades would suggest.

Some make the comment that white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA. This may be true (I dont know it to be a fact) but the difference in the quality of the pool of women to the general pool is not as pronounced as the difference in the pool of minorities. Women receive AA due to forms #1 and #2, whereas minorities (especially blacks) receive AA due to forms #2 and #3.

So you are implying that every minority filled position (especially blacks) is only determined by AA? And at that illegally? The assumption that blacks are too incompetent to hold any qualified position in the workforce is racist. The inherent inferiority of minorities (most notably blacks) is clear in your post.

The Sander's study you posted only touched on one facet of AA. The black/white dichotomy. They are not inclusive of Affirmative Action admission policies based on gender or minorities as a whole, all eligible beneficiaries of AA policies.

The impact AA has on whites is also negligible. For years blacks were denied a chance to even participate in the race. And when a portion of 13% of the total population are given that opportunity, whites are calling reverse racism. Without a doubt the real racists are being exposed.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Irish and Italians have not had to endure slavery and Jim Crow.

And neither have you.

Today's economic and social order was established during slavery and Jim Crow, thus the legacy of both lives on. Irish and Italians aren't suffering from racism today.

 

[Luissa]

you don't think italian's suffer from racism today? you obviously haven't been to new jersey.
And Irish people were highly discrimnated against during the 1800's and early 1900's. Yes african american's got it the worst but affirmative action has no purpose anymore and it doesn't really help in the long run.

 

[Setarcos]

I never hear Irish or Chinese cry about the railroads. Many Blacks never shutup about Birmingham.

 

[IanC]

There are 3 forms of AA;
1. preference given amongst equal candidates
2. preference given amongst minimally qualified candidates
3. preference given solely by race or gender despite qualifications.

Few would argue against #1. Many would agree with #2 but the devil is in the details of what 'minimally qualified' means. #3 is supposedly condemned by all, and is in fact considered illegal.

Why then do elite schools choose #3 to grant entrance to most of their minority students? Google 'Sander & Law School' to find copious information that unqualified minority students are admitted, only to perform as poorly as their grades would suggest.

Some make the comment that white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA. This may be true (I dont know it to be a fact) but the difference in the quality of the pool of women to the general pool is not as pronounced as the difference in the pool of minorities. Women receive AA due to forms #1 and #2, whereas minorities (especially blacks) receive AA due to forms #2 and #3.

So you are implying that every minority filled position (especially blacks) is only determined by AA? And at that illegally? The assumption that blacks are too incompetent to hold any qualified position in the workforce is racist. The inherent inferiority of minorities (most notably blacks) is clear in your post.

The Sander's study you posted only touched on one facet of AA. The black/white dichotomy. They are not inclusive of Affirmative Action admission policies based on gender or minorities as a whole, all eligible beneficiaries of AA policies.

The impact AA has on whites is also negligible. For years blacks were denied a chance to even participate in the race. And when a portion of 13% of the total population are given that opportunity, whites are calling reverse racism. Without a doubt the real racists are being exposed.

So you are just falling back on the old standby of shouting 'racist', eh? The available minority talent pool for universities is insufficient to fill minority spots without accepting candidates with inferior qualifications. Do you consider that the same as saying minorities are 'inherently inferior'? Perhaps 1/6 of minorities would get accepted without preferences, another 1/3 would be quite successful with minor preferences, the other half only get in because of large preferences and their grades and passing rates show the problems of letting in under qualified candidates.
The Sander saga is long and complex. One of the most interesting aspects is how Californian law schools closed ranks and refused additional information that would have led to much greater understanding of the efficacy of AA and whether it works in the manner that we are led to believe it does.
Blacks have been given the opportunity for 40+ years to take part, why do you think that egregious injustices now should be tolerated because of past injustices? Will there ever be a time to stop? Why do you think choosing significantly less qualified candidates for school and jobs doesnt hurt society by wasting resources and lowering standards? I am all for giving minority individuals a certain amount of preference but I am against looking first and foremost only at the race or gender.

 

[keee keee]

slavery we are all enduring it now I work my ass off and over half of my wages are stolen from me in one tax or another against my will. Get over with what happened in the past. Did it happen to you? NO, why should you benifit for something that happened 200 years ago. now discriminating against a white kid whos decendants were not even here at the time your decendends were discriminated does not make it right. screwing him over to give you a break is wrong. AA was a horrible answer to a horrible situation that occured in the world history. At that time in history people got discriminated all types of people from all races and from differant places around the world. the black decendents of the slaves are a lot better off now being here than being left in that third world corrupt hell hole called Africa. In America you can become anything you want to be, just get off your dead ass and do it. quit complaining what happened 200 years ago and do it. go to school, college, the library, make something of your life and quit complaining about what happened 200 years ago.

 

[paperview]

slavery we are all enduring it now I work my ass off and over half of my wages are stolen from me in one tax or another against my will. Get over with what happened in the past. Did it happen to you? NO, why should you benifit for something that happened 200 years ago. now discriminating against a white kid whos decendants were not even here at the time your decendends were discriminated does not make it right. screwing him over to give you a break is wrong. AA was a horrible answer to a horrible situation that occured in the world history. At that time in history people got discriminated all types of people from all races and from differant places around the world. the black decendents of the slaves are a lot better off now being here than being left in that third world corrupt hell hole called Africa. In America you can become anything you want to be, just get off your dead ass and do it. quit complaining what happened 200 years ago and do it. go to school, college, the library, make something of your life and quit complaining about what happened 200 years ago.

Wow.

A poster who thinks slavery and Jim Crow happened 200 years ago,
and slaves and their descendants got lucky!

How....special.

 

[editec]

In my opinion this shit has got to stop. Now. What are your thoughts. Thanks.

I think it was designed to piss people off.

 

[garyd]

Bass ask your self a question. If Affirmative action doesn't help Blacks and doesn't harm caucasians exactly waht useful pupose does it serve?

Oh that's right it serves as a means of transfering credit for black successes to caucasian liberals. I hope that's not why you think it should stay around. It also provides ways for leftist hacks who happen to be African American to enrich themselves at everyone else's expense while simultaneously widening and deepening the racial divide as well as diminishing black successes into the bargain

 

[paperview]

diminishing black successes

Were the successes of Colin Powell and Condi Rice's diminished?

 

[garyd]

In the perception of at least a few. I can't count the number of times I've heard, "He wouldn't have this or that Job if he weren't black"

How fair is it that an African-American doctor has his years of hard work tarnished by such commentary and AA gives that sort of crap both cover and substance.

 

[keee keee]

a lot of white people were sent here and Austrailia against their will. also there was indentured servitude where these people were slaves for their contracted time. so blacks weren't the only people who came here against their will. If these people hate it here so much leave and go back to their homeland, live in poverty in grass huts eating bugs, while getting killed by their own people in racial and religious (islamic) wars and genocide.

 

[goshinj]

This stuff happens everyday in our society. To me, it lessens our capability as a nation to do better in all facets of life. We are all mammals living on this earth. Survival of the fittest is the way it is. We just have to overcome the obstacles like AA and other bullshit to get what we want and to better each and everyone's life. Just my thoughts. See ya.