Affirmative Action sabotages black people!

[Luissa]

Do you think Affirmative Action sabotages minority groups?




"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.

Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates."
Lyndon Johnson

 

[Luissa]

Taki's Magazine: The Diversity Recession, or How Affirmative Action Helped Cause the Housing Crisis

 

[xsited1]

Sometimes.

Affirmative Action gives preferential treatment to a person based on the color of their skin. And all the while I thought we were supposed be treated equally. Silly me.

 

[DiamondDave]

Affirmative action is completely against everything Dr. King fought for

 

[Luc1]

While I agree with you and understand where you're coming from, it's important to remember that slavery was only abolished five generations ago and that blacks had nothing to start with at that point. Whites were essentially given a head start in creating a good life for themselves, thus I understand the need to help blacks get on their feet so that they could make something of themselves. The question really is 'When do we stop affirmative action?' In other words, when will blacks have been given enough help to where they should be on par with white people as far as jobs and income go?

As far as affirmative action for other races, I see no basis for that whatsoever, especially if they broke the law and came here illegally. America has never enslaved the entire population of latinos, asians, etc. If latinos, for example, choose to learn English and come here legally, they wouldn't need affirmative action. Instead, they choose to come here without assimilating any and then expect a handout for because of their incompetence with technology, language, etc.

 

[Luissa]

Affirmative action is completely against everything Dr. King fought for

I think you might be right there!
Also one thing I have learned since posting this is a black person who is selected to attend an Ivy League law school with lower scores or scoring average scores for such school is more likely to drop out or not pass the bar then a black person with the same scores who goes to say a state law school.

 

[dilloduck]

I think you might be right there!
Also one thing I have learned since posting this is a black person who is selected to attend an Ivy League law school with lower scores or scoring average scores for such school is more likely to drop out or not pass the bar then a black person with the same scores who goes to say a state law school.

Whites have given blacks the presidency for God sake's but guess what ? That will be defined as "only a start". Blacks can however look to Washington and ask a black man to give them what they want instead of bitterly bitching that they have no representation there.

 

[Luissa]

Whites have given blacks the presidency for God sake's but guess what ? That will be defined as "only a start". Blacks can however look to Washington and ask a black man to give them what they want instead of bitterly bitching that they have no representation there.

That is not the point of my thread! Do you think affirmative action hurts black people yes or no?

 

[Ravi]

That is not the point of my thread! Do you think affirmative action hurts black people yes or no?

It depends.

Maybe it's finally time to do away with it, though.

 

[dilloduck]

That is not the point of my thread! Do you think affirmative action hurts black people yes or no?

Giving anyone an advantage hurts everyone.

 

[editec]

Do you think Affirmative Action sabotages minority groups?

No, not really.

The real winners of AA are basically upper middle class White woman more than minorities.

 

[Luissa]

No, not really.

The real winners of AA are basically upper middle class White woman more than minorities.

It actually hurt hispanics, black people, and single mothers with the subprime mortgage crisis! Clinton increased these sort of loans to lower income minorities by 21% and Bush by 34%. All that is in the article I posted!

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It actually hurt hispanics, black people, and single mothers with the subprime mortgage crisis! Clinton increased these sort of loans to lower income minorities by 21% and Bush by 34%. All that is in the article I posted!

There are a lot of reasons why affirmative action works and hurts people. The basic premise is that white males have the most and best opportunities in this country. Affirmative action addresses that by offering some of those opportunities to women and minorities. Are some individuals hurt by this? Of course. But, is it overall better for our country? Yes.

Are women paid equally for the work they do? No.

How many female, or black, latino, asian CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are there in relation to white male CEOs? Not many.

So, are we ready to do away with affirmative action. In my opinion: No.

I'd rather we did more to offer opportunity to all kinds of people than to continue down the same path as we did before.

 

[Luissa]

There are a lot of reasons why affirmative action works and hurts people. The basic premise is that white males have the most and best opportunities in this country. Affirmative action addresses that by offering some of those opportunities to women and minorities. Are some individuals hurt by this? Of course. But, is it overall better for our country? Yes.

Are women paid equally for the work they do? No.

How many female, or black, latino, asian CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are there in relation to white male CEOs? Not many.

So, are we ready to do away with affirmative action. In my opinion: No.

I'd rather we did more to offer opportunity to all kinds of people than to continue down the same path as we did before.

I think affirmative action helps them more then hurts them. One of the reasons why I posted this is I am debating this subject in sociology and wanted to hear what others thought. I personally think if you hire a minority for a job they are not qualified for you are hurting them but for the one who is qualified it does not, it actually helping them.

 

[Agnapostate]

Affirmative action is completely against everything Dr. King fought for

Martin Luther King Jr. supported affirmative action. It is a myth created by modern opponents of affirmative action that he did not, based on their misconceptions regarding his advocacy of a "color-blind society."

As to the question of affirmative action as a whole, I would say several things. The first is that minority race applicants may not necessarily be less qualified, in the case of those attempting to enter colleges or universities who have lower test scores than seemingly "more qualified" whites. As lower standardized test scores and IQ levels for minority races are largely the result of environmental influence, it is not necessarily true that they would have a significant amount of impact on their university performance and later careers. It is also important to consider the fact that whites that are "unfairly rejected" from such positions have greater prospects due to their generally more affluent nature than minority races that are "fairly rejected" from such positions. Hence, if we regard the purpose of "fairness" as being the reduction of suffering, affirmative action is more productive than "fairness" in that regard.

More than that, integrating more members of minority races into positions of professional status will create a greater workforce of professionals more capable of understanding the plights and problems of minority populations in inner cities, and thus more capable of dealing with those problems.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Giving anyone an advantage hurts everyone.

Well then get rid of white privilege then. Do you think removing affirmative action puts black people on an equal path with whites?

 

[editec]

So much in life has to do with who you know more than what you know.

Poor Blacks are disadvantaged because most of the people they know are poor Blacks.

Affirmative action was designed to fix that, but as I said before, the big winners of the AA system were White Middle and upper class women.

How?

They KNOW people who are in positions of power, they have had all the advantages that being middle class or even more affluent can bring one, and at the same time they were eligible for AA benefits.

Ironically, while AA was created to begin to break down barriers of classism, they actually ended up reinforcing it.

Affluent wives of affluent White men were suddenly counted as oppressed minorities and given benefits that they never EVER needed to get ahead.

So my complaint isn't with the theory of AA, so much as it was the goofy application of that theory in real life.

It not only hasn't worked, it actully made classist outcomes even worse.

ONE of the net outcomes of AA is that lower middle class White families are worse off than they were before AA.

It was mostly THAT class which paid the price of AA, and ir0nically it was THAT class which benefitted the least from the classist system to begin with.

 

[Old Rocks]

Whites have given blacks the presidency for God sake's but guess what ? That will be defined as "only a start". Blacks can however look to Washington and ask a black man to give them what they want instead of bitterly bitching that they have no representation there.

Silly ass. Obama was not given the Presidency. He earned it against a field that included many with far more name recognition. He earned to votes he recieved through the presentation of ideas that resonated with the majority of Americans. He recieved the majority of votes, and 365 electorial votes.

 

[Old Rocks]

So much in life has to do with who you know more than what you know.

Poor Blacks are disadvantaged because most of the people they know are poor Blacks.

Affirmative action was designed to fix that, but as I said before, the big winners of the AA system were White Middle and upper class women.

How?

They KNOW people who are in positions of power, they have had all the advantages that being middle class or even more affluent can bring one, and at the same time they were eligible for AA benefits.

Ironically, while AA was created to begin to break down barriers of classism, they actually ended up reinforcing it.

Affluent wives of affluent White men were suddenly counted as oppressed minorities and given benefits that they never EVER needed to get ahead.

So my complaint isn't with the theory of AA, so much as it was the goofy application of that theory in real life.

It not only hasn't worked, it actully made classist outcomes even worse.

ONE of the net outcomes of AA is that lower middle class White families are worse off than they were before AA.

It was mostly THAT class which paid the price of AA, and ir0nically it was THAT class which benefitted the least from the classist system to begin with.

Making AA economically based, rather than race or gender based, would be the ideal solution. Better yet, make sure that all of our schools have enough resources to graduate students that are ready to enter college. And make sure that those that desire, and are mentally capable, can afford higher education.

 

[Old Rocks]

Martin Luther King Jr. supported affirmative action. It is a myth created by modern opponents of affirmative action that he did not, based on their misconceptions regarding his advocacy of a "color-blind society."

As to the question of affirmative action as a whole, I would say several things. The first is that minority race applicants may not necessarily be less qualified, in the case of those attempting to enter colleges or universities who have lower test scores than seemingly "more qualified" whites. As lower standardized test scores and IQ levels for minority races are largely the result of environmental influence, it is not necessarily true that they would have a significant amount of impact on their university performance and later careers. It is also important to consider the fact that whites that are "unfairly rejected" from such positions have greater prospects due to their generally more affluent nature than minority races that are "fairly rejected" from such positions. Hence, if we regard the purpose of "fairness" as being the reduction of suffering, affirmative action is more productive than "fairness" in that regard.

More than that, integrating more members of minority races into positions of professional status will create a greater workforce of professionals more capable of understanding the plights and problems of minority populations in inner cities, and thus more capable of dealing with those problems.