Advanced degrees

[Quantum Windbag]

no.

Explain Glenn Beck's doctorate.

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

Yes I will. Without even trying hard.

CSU Ohio gives an honorary degree to faculty emeritus every year.

http://www.clevelandstate.edu/offices/trustees/honorarydegrees/emeritusfaculty.pdf

Yes, I know emeritus means retired, but I also know they are still part of the faculty, and they often teach.

 

[jillian]

no.

Explain Glenn Beck's doctorate.

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

what doctorate? according to his page on wiki, his education consisted of graduating from Sehome High School in Washington State.

Glenn Beck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It could be bad luck and "circumstances beyond their control". Unfortunately, it's not just them that loses out. It's the entire country. Most Republicans don't believe it, but we are all interconnected.

If only Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckenberg hadn't dropped out of college. They might have been able to start some huge companies and have billions of dollars to donate to help people, instead they are janitors somewhere.

Wait,

That's a non sequitur. As has been said, a lack of a degree doesn't equate to being "dumb" or relegate someone to poverty.

The question is, does a degree make a person smarter than they otherwise would have been.

Furthermore, none of those people you mentioned, despite all their money and accomplishment, can practice law or medicine. You have to have an advanced degree to do that. There is no other way to learn law or medicine then by going to law or medical school (with the exception being the state of California which doesn't require a JD to sit for the bar).

How is it a non sequitur? I was responding to the specific claim that not having a degree results in a negative impact on society, not trying to debunk the value of degrees in general. If you want to jab at my points at least do so in context.

By the way, the only thing that keeps anyone from practicing law or medicine is the rent seeking of the people in those professions that insist on the government imposing standards that make it prohibitive for people to get involved in them. A degree does not make anyone a good lawyer or a good doctor, yet we have been trained to think it does.

As far as degrees making people smarter, the correct answer is obvious, sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. It obviously did not help you, or you would not be here trying to tell me that me pointing out that people without degrees have contributed to society somehow proves that you are smarter because you have a degree.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Explain Glenn Beck's doctorate.

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

what doctorate? according to his page on wiki, his education consisted of graduating from Sehome High School in Washington State.

Glenn Beck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctorate.

Lee Stranahan: Glenn Beck Awarded Honorary Doctorate From University Of I Don't Remember

 

[jillian]

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

what doctorate? according to his page on wiki, his education consisted of graduating from Sehome High School in Washington State.

Glenn Beck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctorate.

Lee Stranahan: Glenn Beck Awarded Honorary Doctorate From University Of I Don't Remember

i thought we were having a serious discussion about advanced education, not being nonsensical.

silly us

 

[Annie]

If only Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckenberg hadn't dropped out of college. They might have been able to start some huge companies and have billions of dollars to donate to help people, instead they are janitors somewhere.

Wait,

That's a non sequitur. As has been said, a lack of a degree doesn't equate to being "dumb" or relegate someone to poverty.

The question is, does a degree make a person smarter than they otherwise would have been.

Furthermore, none of those people you mentioned, despite all their money and accomplishment, can practice law or medicine. You have to have an advanced degree to do that. There is no other way to learn law or medicine then by going to law or medical school (with the exception being the state of California which doesn't require a JD to sit for the bar).

How is it a non sequitur? I was responding to the specific claim that not having a degree results in a negative impact on society, not trying to debunk the value of degrees in general. If you want to jab at my points at least do so in context.

By the way, the only thing that keeps anyone from practicing law or medicine is the rent seeking of the people in those professions that insist on the government imposing standards that make it prohibitive for people to get involved in them. A degree does not make anyone a good lawyer or a good doctor, yet we have been trained to think it does.

As far as degrees making people smarter, the correct answer is obvious, sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. It obviously did not help you, or you would not be here trying to tell me that me pointing out that people without degrees have contributed to society somehow proves that you are smarter because you have a degree.

Holding 5 degrees I will say they do not make one 'smarter.' In truth, if people weren't so lazy they'd study as intensely on their own time all points of view on the subjects that interest them. Heck really want to be smarter? Study those things you're not good at! Bottom line degrees and the work and reading involved, depend on each school and teacher. For the most part, if studying immediately after high school, you're going to give the teacher what you think they wish to hear.

'Adult students' may talk to their professors more, and disagree with them. In most cases with no cost to their grades. Liberal or conservative bias of professor not withstanding.

While post secondary courses tend to be less generalized, they still cover vast swaths of information. The tests focus on narrow. We all know what to concentrate our studies on.

 

[Toro]

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

what doctorate? according to his page on wiki, his education consisted of graduating from Sehome High School in Washington State.

Glenn Beck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctorate.

Lee Stranahan: Glenn Beck Awarded Honorary Doctorate From University Of I Don't Remember

Dude, c'mon ...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

what doctorate? according to his page on wiki, his education consisted of graduating from Sehome High School in Washington State.

Glenn Beck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctorate.

Lee Stranahan: Glenn Beck Awarded Honorary Doctorate From University Of I Don't Remember

i thought we were having a serious discussion about advanced education, not being nonsensical.

silly us

I thought we were discussing whether a degree makes one intelligent. Not that I am surprised that you have staked out a position and insist on disregarding any evidence that you might need to think about being wrong, but if we are discussing a correlation between degrees and intelligence we have to look at stupid people who have degrees.

 

[Immanuel]

It is not the degree itself that makes one intelligent. A person can be intelligent and not even have a high school diploma depending on the situation. An advanced degree is only proof that someone undertook the endeavor to complete the coursework to get that degree.

Immie

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

The point being, though, that the degree itself does not "make" you intelligent. It is evidence of your intelligence.

Immie

 

[Annie]

It is not the degree itself that makes one intelligent. A person can be intelligent and not even have a high school diploma depending on the situation. An advanced degree is only proof that someone undertook the endeavor to complete the coursework to get that degree.

Immie

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

Actually the standards are not that high. Show up and regurgitate is all that is required. Some go beyond, but that is true for non-degree folks as well.

 

[Annie]

It is not the degree itself that makes one intelligent. A person can be intelligent and not even have a high school diploma depending on the situation. An advanced degree is only proof that someone undertook the endeavor to complete the coursework to get that degree.

Immie

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

The point being, though, that the degree itself does not "make" you intelligent. It is evidence of your intelligence.

Immie

It's evidence that you completed the coursework, to the parameters of the instructors. Whether or not you learned anything? Not a clue.

 

[xsited1]

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

The point being, though, that the degree itself does not "make" you intelligent. It is evidence of your intelligence.

Immie

It's evidence that you completed the coursework, to the parameters of the instructors. Whether or not you learned anything? Not a clue.

True! And if it's a subject like sociology or polic-sci or even mathematics, you usually don't have to think too much. Just memorize a few things and get an 'A'.

 

[Immanuel]

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

The point being, though, that the degree itself does not "make" you intelligent. It is evidence of your intelligence.

Immie

It's evidence that you completed the coursework, to the parameters of the instructors. Whether or not you learned anything? Not a clue.

I would think that it is pretty hard to get through an advanced degree and not have learned anything or more to the point, not know anything. I think it takes more than just good looks to get through an advanced degree.

Immie

 

[Samson]

It is not the degree itself that makes one intelligent. A person can be intelligent and not even have a high school diploma depending on the situation. An advanced degree is only proof that someone undertook the endeavor to complete the coursework to get that degree.

Immie

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

Actually the standards are not that high. Show up and regurgitate is all that is required. Some go beyond, but that is true for non-degree folks as well.

The real test is perserverence: How long can you work on Micky Mouse projects for School, hold down a job, and have a family and then PAY to do it a!gain the next semester

 

[Samson]

The point being, though, that the degree itself does not "make" you intelligent. It is evidence of your intelligence.

Immie

It's evidence that you completed the coursework, to the parameters of the instructors. Whether or not you learned anything? Not a clue.

True! And if it's a subject like sociology or polic-sci or even mathematics, you usually don't have to think too much. Just memorize a few things and get an 'A'.

Well, most of the time.

I always had a fucking group project to do with people that would make rdean look like a genius: There would ALWAYS be a couple of Chinese guys who were paying tuition that the school was lapping up, but who couldn't write, and could barely speak English.

To maintain the gravey train of foreign student tuition payments, there had to be groups of one English speaker to 2 or three non-English Speaker, and one or two morons.

 

[Annie]

It's evidence that you completed the coursework, to the parameters of the instructors. Whether or not you learned anything? Not a clue.

True! And if it's a subject like sociology or polic-sci or even mathematics, you usually don't have to think too much. Just memorize a few things and get an 'A'.

Well, most of the time.

I always had a fucking group project to do with people that would make rdean look like a genius: There would ALWAYS be a couple of Chinese guys who were paying tuition that the school was lapping up, but who couldn't write, and could barely speak English.

To maintain the gravey train of foreign student tuition payments, there had to be groups of one English speaker to 2 or three non-English Speaker, and one or two morons.

Yeah. Have I mentioned 100 times that I hate group projects? As one being graded. As an instructor I count group grades as low as possible, putting the bulk on individual. The losers hide behind group.

 

[geauxtohell]

Do you believe it is possible to get an advanced degree without actually learning anything?

No.

Do you?

As I asked another person, explain Glenn Beck.

Even if you insist on arbitrarily differentiating between an earned degree and an unearned one you cannot categorically state that all advanced degrees require either intelligence or learning.

Colleges and universities are for profit institutions, and, as such, will sell to the highest bidder.

I know there are some who will argue about this, but art psychotherapy is not a field.

MPhil & PhD in Art Psychotherapy, Goldsmiths, University of London

Then we have a PhD program in dance.

Grad Bulletin/Dance PhD

My personal favorite, Leisure Studies.

Grad Bulletin/Dance PhD

After that we can branch off into Astrology and Astrological therapy. which actually makes art therapy sound intelligent.

Astrological Therapist, Astrology Consultations, Psychological Astrology School Course, Glenn Perry

Do I think it is possible to get an advanced degree without learning anything? Definitely, especially if you pick a field that has nothing to teach you.

When we decided to talk about "advanced degrees", I was under the impression that we were talking about actual degrees that were earned with some sort of degree of academic rigor. Not "honorary-thanks-for-giving-our-graduation-speech" bullshit. I won't argue that Glen Beck's or anyone elses honorary degree is just a nice certificate. I'd rather focus on an actual degree and the process of learning that goes into it.

You cited fields that you don't view as academically rigorous to make your point. That is aside from the point. Not everyone wants to get a PhD in biochemistry and a PhD degree that is earned still requires work and learning and indicates a person is reasonably intelligent.

They are smarter than they would have otherwise been had they not pursued a higher degree.

 

[geauxtohell]

Explain Glenn Beck's doctorate.

It's not a real doctorate.

Needless to say, you won't be able to be a faculty member at any accredited institution with an "Honorary Doctorate".

Yes I will. Without even trying hard.

CSU Ohio gives an honorary degree to faculty emeritus every year.

http://www.clevelandstate.edu/offices/trustees/honorarydegrees/emeritusfaculty.pdf

Yes, I know emeritus means retired, but I also know they are still part of the faculty, and they often teach.

And they were already on faculty, which means they already had an advanced degree in something.

 

[geauxtohell]

How is it a non sequitur? I was responding to the specific claim that not having a degree results in a negative impact on society, not trying to debunk the value of degrees in general.

I must have missed that.

Either way, it's silly to equate honorary degrees with actual degrees. As I said, it's a non sequitur.

By the way, the only thing that keeps anyone from practicing law or medicine is the rent seeking of the people in those professions that insist on the government imposing standards that make it prohibitive for people to get involved in them. A degree does not make anyone a good lawyer or a good doctor, yet we have been trained to think it does.

The Flexner Report disagrees with you.

What's the Flexner Report?

Flexner Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see, there was a time when virtually anyone with a few years of schooling at any "medical school" could call themselves a Doctor and proceed to kill their patients with their ineptitude.

As much as you might not like it, professional accreditation serves a purpose.

As far as degrees making people smarter, the correct answer is obvious, sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. It obviously did not help you,

Weak.

or you would not be here trying to tell me that me pointing out that people without degrees have contributed to society somehow proves that you are smarter because you have a degree.

I never claimed that. Perhaps you should go back to school and take English 101.

 

[geauxtohell]

It is not the degree itself that makes one intelligent. A person can be intelligent and not even have a high school diploma depending on the situation. An advanced degree is only proof that someone undertook the endeavor to complete the coursework to get that degree.

Immie

Sorry, but obtaining an advanced degree is not like stacking wood. You have to have the brain power to complete the degree. It's not merely a matter of putting the elbow grease into it. Though that comes into play too.

Actually the standards are not that high. Show up and regurgitate is all that is required. Some go beyond, but that is true for non-degree folks as well.

"Show up and regurgitate" won't cut it in my degree path.