Admiral Fallon to Retire Early

[Gunny]

Okay. Fallon was forced out because he didn't buy the party line. It's been like that since the begining of this war. Say what you want, but Shinseki was talking about the occupation, not the invasion and he was right.

The only Senior Military opinions allowed are those that agree with Bush & Company.

That type of management is dangerous to say the least. If you only listen to those who agree with you, you get into a situation called groupthink.



Wikipedia

When you limit the incoming data to only what you want, it is a sure way to ensure failure wether you are right or left. That's is how the whole Watergate episode came about.

That is also one of the reasons we have had such problems in coming up with a real strategy in Iraq. One that works. If you only try what you agree with and you ignore other Senior Miltary input, you are ensuring an unecessarily long and bloody war.

LtCol Evans Carlson debriefed every battle the Raiders did. He listened to all the troops who had input. I don't care if he was a socialist later in life, he had the best kill and lowest casualty ratio. That defines military success.

Hardly something new or even extraordinary for the CinC to replace his Commanders if he doesn't agree with them or the job they're doing.

Lincoln ran through WAY more commanders than Bush has. So did Jefferson Davis for that matter. Truman publicly relieved MacArthur for cause.

Carlson was a socialist even at THAT time in his life. He is the one creditted for coining the term "Gung Ho"; which, in Chinese means all work together. His kill vs casualty ratio can be attributed to the missions he carried out. It isn't like the Raiders loaded up on Higgins boats or LVT's and perfromed frontal amphibious assaults in broad daylight.

And I really don't get putting an Admiral in overall command of what is primarily a ground force. I wouldn't take a Gen who came up as a tank, artillery or infantry officer and give him command of a Naval Battle Group.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why are you such a damn nasty little name calling person, Gunny? You seem unable to dialogue with anyone who disagrees with you without calling names. Not the sign of the greatest intelligence.

I don't think that I have called you "retard" which seems to be your favorite argument.


I am a joke? Look in the mirror, Gunny. You might be suprised what you see. You really must have had a tough time with the officers you served with. Don't blame me, I doubt if I served with you. I think I would have remembered someone like you.

All the Gunny's that I served with or dealt with in either aviation or ground, I got along with, respected and listened to what they said. Hell, my Ops Gunny even got me into the Chief's mess on ship for lobster and steak. I always believed what they told me as a 2Lt. Take care of your troops and they will take care of the mission and you.

If you want to believe Bush is the best thing since sliced shit, fine. But don't think that you have a lock on the one truth and that others cant' criticize him. Shit, you piss on Clinton all the time, but I attack Bush (WHO IS THE CURRENT PERSON IN OFFICE, you think I am un-American.

No, I would have remembered a person like you.

I was a GYSgt under 12 years, as a matter of fact I put on the rank the day after I hit 11 years So I doubt most of my officers had trouble with me. Though I didn't play quite as well with some. I was never a recruiter or a Drill Instructor so I didn't get promoted by those means.

I always took care of all my Marines below and above me. The second most important job in the Marine Corps , after Mission accomplishment , is troop welfare.

I did have one 1st Lt. fire me for DOING my job. I was off on 30 days convolescence leave and gave him 3 weeks to realize he was wrong. He never did. So I took it up the chain.

Guess what? The CO ordered him to either reinstate me and apologize or charge me or write a special fitness report on me. He told him if he charged me he wanted the specifics on his desk the next morning, if he wrote a special fitness report on me both the Major and the 1st Sgt would be helping me write the rebuttal. Then he "advised" the Lt. to reinstate me.

I had my job back the next day. Of course the LT told me he wanted to charge me, he just didn't have any specifics, to which I replied " that is the whole point Sir."

What was sad about the whole affair was I had reinstated the very system of checks that he said we didn't need on classified material and his Master Sgt tried to pull a fast one. I caught the problem WITH the system and reported it properly to him and he was embarrassed.

 

[jreeves]

Come on! Take the rosey red glasses off. This is not the first time a military commander has disappeared, oddly enough because he didn't agree with bush. Of course we all know what a great military mind bush has. He started the THREE TRILLION DOLLAR WAR!

Please show everybody how the war has or will cost us 3 trillion dollars and I will show you are promoting a lie that has been repeated over and over, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[rayboyusmc]

I just seems you have changed from then Gunny.

 

[Gunny]

I just seems you have changed from then Gunny.

Is it him? Or maybe YOU have changed? I can honestly say I never met a Marine Corps officer that presented him or herself as you do on this board.

 

[rayboyusmc]

General Butler. General Zinni.

You probably didn't in active duty. Most of us who believe like I do, changed after we left the womb of the military enclave. We lost the constant reinforcement to think like everyone else on military matters.Some don't. That's life.

I have never met a Gunnery Sergeant who was so closed minded to anything that didn't fit his point of view.

You are the opposite side of the coin that you and I are both on. And your side is no more correct than the other.

If we were attacked today, I would go right back and fly helos if they let me. But I will not defend our presence in Iraq as correct. It was wrong and stupid and was stupidly planned and executed because civilians overuled military commanders.

I think Bush is the most incompetent, arrogant and dangerous person we have had in the office in a long time. You don't. Sorry, but we see the wordl differently.

Don't expect me to agree with you unless you give me hard data that contradicts what I say.