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You're so ignorant it's pathetic. Maybe you should put the plug in the jug and get involved. Here's a starting point:Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?
If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?
And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?
Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.
12 step programs are lame. They are designed for weak minded christians that are already predisposed to "giving themselves" over to someone or something else.
HIS fourth edition of Alcoholics Anonymous came off press in November 2001, at the start of a new millennium. Since the third edition was published in 1976, worldwide membership of A.A. has just about doubled, to an estimated two million or more, with nearly 100,800 groups meeting in approximately 150 countries around the world
Big Book On Line
That's the reason why I will never give junkies or drunks the right to say they have a disease, nicotine is not an aside, we are addicts to. But because of the anti-smokers having their heads up their asses people forget, nicotine is more addictive than most illegal drugs. While the junkies and drunks have a ton of states funded programs and legal protections offered because it's a "disease" now, us smokers are just treated like shit. It's the same thing, this is an all or nothing policy, and can include many prescription drugs as well. But only the drunks or street junkies are even offered anything to help, any sympathy. People whine and cry when a landlord doesn't want to risk renting to them or an employer refuses to hire them, but when you smoke you're considered a bigger threat and shunned. Nicotine is NOT an aside, so either stop demonizing it or demonize them all.
If you want to include the behavior and lifestyle of smokers with that of other addicts, be my guest. I don't. The lifestyle of addicts is as much a part of the addiction as the drugs.
Okay, I will paraphrase my point:
Those who are attacking smokers need to attack all the other junkies or give us the same privileges, rights, and funding that the other junkies receive.
Would a punitive tax work for you?If you want to include the behavior and lifestyle of smokers with that of other addicts, be my guest. I don't. The lifestyle of addicts is as much a part of the addiction as the drugs.
Okay, I will paraphrase my point:
Those who are attacking smokers need to attack all the other junkies or give us the same privileges, rights, and funding that the other junkies receive.
I don't think I would need several days in a detox center followed by intensive rehab in order to stop smoking. Cognitive therapy might be helpful? I would also go to my doctor and get a prescription if I was struggling that bad - a pack of nicorette, too (I've used that at work, it's pretty good, tastes terrible!). If the needs of smokers were relative to that of junkies when it comes to stopping, than I would agree, but they are not. On the other hand, I've never tried quitting, so I might just need expensive initiatives.
If you want to include the behavior and lifestyle of smokers with that of other addicts, be my guest. I don't. The lifestyle of addicts is as much a part of the addiction as the drugs.
Okay, I will paraphrase my point:
Those who are attacking smokers need to attack all the other junkies or give us the same privileges, rights, and funding that the other junkies receive.
I don't think I would need several days in a detox center followed by intensive rehab in order to stop smoking. Cognitive therapy might be helpful? I would also go to my doctor and get a prescription if I was struggling that bad - a pack of nicorette, too (I've used that at work, it's pretty good, tastes terrible!). If the needs of smokers were relative to that of junkies when it comes to stopping, than I would agree, but they are not. On the other hand, I've never tried quitting, so I might just need expensive initiatives.
Okay, I will paraphrase my point:
Those who are attacking smokers need to attack all the other junkies or give us the same privileges, rights, and funding that the other junkies receive.
I don't think I would need several days in a detox center followed by intensive rehab in order to stop smoking. Cognitive therapy might be helpful? I would also go to my doctor and get a prescription if I was struggling that bad - a pack of nicorette, too (I've used that at work, it's pretty good, tastes terrible!). If the needs of smokers were relative to that of junkies when it comes to stopping, than I would agree, but they are not. On the other hand, I've never tried quitting, so I might just need expensive initiatives.
Aah ... but some do. Many take vacations when they stop because they are unable to work well during that time. The withdrawls are not as violent but the withdrawl symptoms can cause a person to become violent. I don't see these stop smoking methods as any more viable than Methadone, it's replacing one form of the drug with another. Also, they are more expensive for smokers and only a few can get them on insurance now. I know several long time junkies who did just quit their drugs, one is a counselor for other junkies and one works with the homeless, the others worked in similar positions. But they have the same story, they just stopped and suffered through the withdrawls. Only one was actually in an institution during this time.
Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?
If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?
And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?
Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.
I don't think I would need several days in a detox center followed by intensive rehab in order to stop smoking. Cognitive therapy might be helpful? I would also go to my doctor and get a prescription if I was struggling that bad - a pack of nicorette, too (I've used that at work, it's pretty good, tastes terrible!). If the needs of smokers were relative to that of junkies when it comes to stopping, than I would agree, but they are not. On the other hand, I've never tried quitting, so I might just need expensive initiatives.
Aah ... but some do. Many take vacations when they stop because they are unable to work well during that time. The withdrawls are not as violent but the withdrawl symptoms can cause a person to become violent. I don't see these stop smoking methods as any more viable than Methadone, it's replacing one form of the drug with another. Also, they are more expensive for smokers and only a few can get them on insurance now. I know several long time junkies who did just quit their drugs, one is a counselor for other junkies and one works with the homeless, the others worked in similar positions. But they have the same story, they just stopped and suffered through the withdrawls. Only one was actually in an institution during this time.
I don't know any drug addicts who just stopped. All of them went away, most haven't stopped, either. Smokers on the other hand, all I've known have had success with prescribed medications or quite cold turkey - one or two fell off the wagon, though. I do not know a lot about prescriptions like zyban (sp) etc, are they like methadone?
I would still argue that lifestyle associated with being a junkie is just as addictive or hard to break free from as the drug itself. More so than smoking.
they have drugs that block your cravings for such things as herion, you can also take Baclofin not sure on the spelling, it is a muscle relaxer and it can block most of the part of the brain that craves coccain.I believe there are studies that show the reaction in the brain that keeps those "addicted", addicted....
I don't know if they have discovered a man made drug that is less destructive that can substitute this physical need of these illegal drugs...something like the Nicotine patch for cigarette smokers though the patch has been proven to be less affective than some other drug that is usually used for the treatment of depression, that has been shown to help these smokers to quit.
AA never cures anyone, and they are the first to tell you such....they just produce "recovering Alcoholic" that will never be "recovered" completely, from what I have read on the topic....once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic....only a "recovering one" if you have successfully gone through a 12 step program...this still means you are an alcoholic and if you fall off the wagon and have a drink, it will be harder to get back on the abstention again...they have to abstain from having any alcohol at all...this physical need, this medical need to drink till you drop does not go away....starving it, controls it, to a degree.
So, i guess i am not certain that I agree it is all bulloney Mountain man....
Do most leukemia patients "fall off the wagon 7 times on average" before they get their leukemia under control? What about AIDS patients? What about Parkinson's patients? I suppose maybe they could if they only followed a 12 step program.they have drugs that block your cravings for such things as herion, you can also take Baclofin not sure on the spelling, it is a muscle relaxer and it can block most of the part of the brain that craves coccain.I believe there are studies that show the reaction in the brain that keeps those "addicted", addicted....
I don't know if they have discovered a man made drug that is less destructive that can substitute this physical need of these illegal drugs...something like the Nicotine patch for cigarette smokers though the patch has been proven to be less affective than some other drug that is usually used for the treatment of depression, that has been shown to help these smokers to quit.
AA never cures anyone, and they are the first to tell you such....they just produce "recovering Alcoholic" that will never be "recovered" completely, from what I have read on the topic....once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic....only a "recovering one" if you have successfully gone through a 12 step program...this still means you are an alcoholic and if you fall off the wagon and have a drink, it will be harder to get back on the abstention again...they have to abstain from having any alcohol at all...this physical need, this medical need to drink till you drop does not go away....starving it, controls it, to a degree.
So, i guess i am not certain that I agree it is all bulloney Mountain man....
And when you can be genetically pre disposed to become an alcoholic or addicted to other drugs I think it is a disease. And as for 12 step programs sometimes it is not enough to stop drug use, most alcoholics and drug addicts fall off the wagon on average seven times.
their leukemia can come back several times just like with other cancers before they either are cured or die.Do most leukemia patients "fall off the wagon 7 times on average" before they get their leukemia under control? What about AIDS patients? What about Parkinson's patients? I suppose maybe they could if they only followed a 12 step program.they have drugs that block your cravings for such things as herion, you can also take Baclofin not sure on the spelling, it is a muscle relaxer and it can block most of the part of the brain that craves coccain.I believe there are studies that show the reaction in the brain that keeps those "addicted", addicted....
I don't know if they have discovered a man made drug that is less destructive that can substitute this physical need of these illegal drugs...something like the Nicotine patch for cigarette smokers though the patch has been proven to be less affective than some other drug that is usually used for the treatment of depression, that has been shown to help these smokers to quit.
AA never cures anyone, and they are the first to tell you such....they just produce "recovering Alcoholic" that will never be "recovered" completely, from what I have read on the topic....once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic....only a "recovering one" if you have successfully gone through a 12 step program...this still means you are an alcoholic and if you fall off the wagon and have a drink, it will be harder to get back on the abstention again...they have to abstain from having any alcohol at all...this physical need, this medical need to drink till you drop does not go away....starving it, controls it, to a degree.
So, i guess i am not certain that I agree it is all bulloney Mountain man....
And when you can be genetically pre disposed to become an alcoholic or addicted to other drugs I think it is a disease. And as for 12 step programs sometimes it is not enough to stop drug use, most alcoholics and drug addicts fall off the wagon on average seven times.
Aah ... but some do. Many take vacations when they stop because they are unable to work well during that time. The withdrawls are not as violent but the withdrawl symptoms can cause a person to become violent. I don't see these stop smoking methods as any more viable than Methadone, it's replacing one form of the drug with another. Also, they are more expensive for smokers and only a few can get them on insurance now. I know several long time junkies who did just quit their drugs, one is a counselor for other junkies and one works with the homeless, the others worked in similar positions. But they have the same story, they just stopped and suffered through the withdrawls. Only one was actually in an institution during this time.
I don't know any drug addicts who just stopped. All of them went away, most haven't stopped, either. Smokers on the other hand, all I've known have had success with prescribed medications or quite cold turkey - one or two fell off the wagon, though. I do not know a lot about prescriptions like zyban (sp) etc, are they like methadone?
I would still argue that lifestyle associated with being a junkie is just as addictive or hard to break free from as the drug itself. More so than smoking.
and a large number of innocent people have committed suicide after taking...MEDICATIONS to quit smoking
Zyban and Suicide: An Introduction
Zyban® (bupropion SR) is a prescription medication used for smoking cessation (or to help people quit smoking). However, it is also an antidepressant; and as with all antidepressants, there may be an increased risk of suicidal behavior when taking Zyban.
The FDA's Warning on Zyban and Suicide
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued a special warning about the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior with antidepressant use in children and teenagers. The warning was issued due to concerns that antidepressants seemed to increase the risk of suicidal behavior
Zyban and Suicide
Quite true, I tried one, almost crawled out of my skin before dropping it and picking up another pack of smokes. Can't remember the one the doc had prescribed but when I told her what it was like she didn't argue with me, instead she just recommended I find a better reason to quit and stay away from people for at least a week when I do finally stop on my own.speaking of methadone, you guys should watch the documentary called methodonia which is all about people who become addicted to methadone and once you are addicted to that you pretty much cannot get off of it.
Who is to say a medical cure isn't around the corner?Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?
If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?
And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?
Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.
Aah ... but some do. Many take vacations when they stop because they are unable to work well during that time. The withdrawls are not as violent but the withdrawl symptoms can cause a person to become violent. I don't see these stop smoking methods as any more viable than Methadone, it's replacing one form of the drug with another. Also, they are more expensive for smokers and only a few can get them on insurance now. I know several long time junkies who did just quit their drugs, one is a counselor for other junkies and one works with the homeless, the others worked in similar positions. But they have the same story, they just stopped and suffered through the withdrawls. Only one was actually in an institution during this time.
I don't know any drug addicts who just stopped. All of them went away, most haven't stopped, either. Smokers on the other hand, all I've known have had success with prescribed medications or quite cold turkey - one or two fell off the wagon, though. I do not know a lot about prescriptions like zyban (sp) etc, are they like methadone?
I would still argue that lifestyle associated with being a junkie is just as addictive or hard to break free from as the drug itself. More so than smoking.
and a large number of innocent people have committed suicide after taking...MEDICATIONS to quit smoking
Zyban and Suicide: An Introduction
Zyban® (bupropion SR) is a prescription medication used for smoking cessation (or to help people quit smoking). However, it is also an antidepressant; and as with all antidepressants, there may be an increased risk of suicidal behavior when taking Zyban.
The FDA's Warning on Zyban and Suicide
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued a special warning about the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior with antidepressant use in children and teenagers. The warning was issued due to concerns that antidepressants seemed to increase the risk of suicidal behavior
Zyban and Suicide
If nicotine junkies chewed their tobacco instead of smoking it it might be easier for them to get sympathy.but when you smoke you're considered a bigger threat and shunned.
I think addiction itself is the disease and not the substance. One can get addicted to anything and many addictions are harmless.
Sympathy for their difficulty quitting. The shunning is a result of the smoke they create. They can still get their fix from chewing tobacco but they smoke anyway, despite the fact that they are affecting other people when they do. That's why people shun them and have little sympathy for them.Sympathy for what, the shunning?
