Actual legal thoughts on the Florida parking lot shooting....

2aguy

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Jul 19, 2014
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This is legal analysis from Legal Insurrection on the parking lot shooting......if you really want to know the law on this, this is the place to go...

Manslaughter Charges Filed in Florida Handicap Parking Spot Shooting

Drejak has a potential, if marginal, justification claim of self-defense here. The key issue is whether his decision to fire the shot was made while Drejak held a reasonable perception of an imminent deadly force attack. Keep in mind that ā€œdeadly forceā€ is defined to include not just force capable of causing death, but also force capable of causing serious bodily harm.

Given that McGlockton had just moments before shoved Drejak forcibly to the ground, and remained within a couple of steps distance, close enough for McGlockton to continue his unlawful and potentially deadly force attack, itā€™s not impossible to conceive that a reasonable person in Drejakā€™s position on the ground could have perceived that such an imminent deadly force threat was present.

Of course, itā€™s also not impossible to conceive that a reasonable person in the same position would not have perceived an imminent deadly force threat at that moment, hence the self-defense claim being marginal.

Clearly, if McGlockton had advanced on Drejak, an imminent deadly force threat would have been reasonably perceived. Similarly, if McGlockton had fled at the sight of the gun and been shot in the back while running away, not even a marginal claim of self-defense could be made. By merely taking a step or so back, and then remaining close enough to again attack, the circumstances became more ambiguous.

Itā€™s worth keeping in mind, as well, that at trial the prosecutors will need to convince a unanimous jury, likely of six jurors in Florida, that they have disproved self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt, the legal standard in 49 states (all except Ohio), and a high legal standard.

Even prior to trial, however, the state must be prepared to disprove self-defense by clear and convincing evidence. Thatā€™s because at his discretion Drejka can request a self-defense immunity hearing, make a prima facie case of self-defense (definitely possible on these facts), and compel the state to disprove that claim by the legal standard of clear and convincing evidence.

If youā€™re wondering what ā€œclear and convincing evidenceā€ means, the truth is nobody really knows in any absolute sense, except that itā€™s a higher legal standard than a mere preponderance of the evidence, and a lower legal standard than beyond a reasonable doubt. Florida jury instructions provide the following guidance:

ā€œClear and convincing evidenceā€ is evidence that is precise, explicit, lacking in confusion, and of such weight that it produces a firm belief or conviction, without hesitation, about the matter in issue.ā€

Naturally, the media and even some educated people are conflating this self-defense immunity law (Ā§776.032) with the completely separate Stand-Your-Ground law (Ā§776.012) in Florida. These are not at all the same things.

The use of the phrase ā€œStand-Your-Groundā€ to refer to self-defense immunity is an indication of seriously defective understanding of the law, as well as a considerable contributor (intentionally?) to sow confusion in the public mind on what ā€œStand-Your-Groundā€ actually does (pro-tip, ā€œStand-Your-Groundā€ merely waives the legal duty to retreat before using otherwise lawful deadly force in self-defense, and thatā€™s all it does).

This arrest also puts the lie to the claim that Floridaā€™s self-defense immunity law prohibits an arrest where a person claims their use of force against another was self-defense, which is what Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced at his press conference on July 20. The truth is that the self-defense immunity law merely prohibits an arrest in the absence of probable causethat a crime has been committed. If a use of force was done in apparent self-defense, that use of force is justified and is not a crime, and an arrest would be inappropriate. Where there is probable cause of a crime, however, the self-defense immunity law fully permits an arrest to be made.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.

The shooter wasn't 50 feet away from the guy who was backing up.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.

The shooter wasn't 50 feet away from the guy who was backing up.


Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked.... You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress.... the guy who was attacked didn't have that option.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.

The shooter wasn't 50 feet away from the guy who was backing up.


Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked.... You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress.... the guy who was attacked didn't have that option.

Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked

Oh please, he was shoved once. Not punched. Once.
From 50 feet away, if that's how far away the camera was, I could see the guy backing up.
If the shooter thought he was advancing, his poor eyesight should have voided his CCL.

You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress....

And the luxury of not being an angry moron.
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.

The shooter wasn't 50 feet away from the guy who was backing up.


Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked.... You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress.... the guy who was attacked didn't have that option.

Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked

Oh please, he was shoved once. Not punched. Once.
From 50 feet away, if that's how far away the camera was, I could see the guy backing up.
If the shooter thought he was advancing, his poor eyesight should have voided his CCL.

You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress....

And the luxury of not being an angry moron.
 
If the guy who was shot- shot the shooter instead- would that have been legal?

The guy who shoved the shooter could have made a reasonable case that he was defending his girlfriend from imminent danger from an armed man who was threatening her.

What if he had just shot the guy instead of shoving him?

Stand your ground........
 
It has come out that the murderer had threatened to shoot and kill multiple other people. I donā€™t know if that info will be allowed in lto the trial. I donā€™t trust the system anymore to bring justice to the victim. Especially in Florida. I suspect the murderer will walk free, and as he became emboldened to shoot so will others because of his court victory.
 
It has come out that the murderer had threatened to shoot and kill multiple other people. I donā€™t know if that info will be allowed in lto the trial. I donā€™t trust the system anymore to bring justice to the victim. Especially in Florida. I suspect the murderer will walk free, and as he became emboldened to shoot so will others because of his court victory.
and how can a juror not know this?....the judge can say you cant consider his past....sorry past actions have a lot to do with his currant situation....
 
It has come out that the murderer had threatened to shoot and kill multiple other people. I donā€™t know if that info will be allowed in lto the trial. I donā€™t trust the system anymore to bring justice to the victim. Especially in Florida. I suspect the murderer will walk free, and as he became emboldened to shoot so will others because of his court victory.
and how can a juror not know this?....the judge can say you cant consider his past....sorry past actions have a lot to do with his currant situation....
Donā€™t be surprised when he walks
 
It has come out that the murderer had threatened to shoot and kill multiple other people. I donā€™t know if that info will be allowed in lto the trial. I donā€™t trust the system anymore to bring justice to the victim. Especially in Florida. I suspect the murderer will walk free, and as he became emboldened to shoot so will others because of his court victory.
and how can a juror not know this?....the judge can say you cant consider his past....sorry past actions have a lot to do with his currant situation....
Donā€™t be surprised when he walks
i wont be....lots of strange decisions have happened in the court rooms...
 
The guy stopped moving toward him.
When he saw the gun, the guy moved back.
At that point, unless he again moves forward in a threatening manner, it's a bad shoot.


If you, on the ground, having just been knocked violently to the ground and suffering from that attack can tell the guy is moving back. Watching it on video from a 50 ft away perspective is not the same thing.

The shooter wasn't 50 feet away from the guy who was backing up.


Yep..... he was much closer, having just been violently attacked.... You have the luxury of analyzing the video without any stress.... the guy who was attacked didn't have that option.

Yes dude I was mugged twice. I told you this several times in the past.

Even if I had a gun in my waist there is zero chance I can defend myself. They could have easily killed me and took my gun.
I donā€™t own a gun and probably donā€™t need it for the rest of my life.
 
If the guy who was shot- shot the shooter instead- would that have been legal?

The guy who shoved the shooter could have made a reasonable case that he was defending his girlfriend from imminent danger from an armed man who was threatening her.

What if he had just shot the guy instead of shoving him?

Stand your ground........


No gun was openly presented at the time and the victim hadn't touched the girlfriend. The only physical violence was on the part of the boyfriend. If he had shot the guy instead of shoving him that would be murder since no threat of death or bodily harm from the victim was in evidence.
 
If the guy who was shot- shot the shooter instead- would that have been legal?

The guy who shoved the shooter could have made a reasonable case that he was defending his girlfriend from imminent danger from an armed man who was threatening her.

What if he had just shot the guy instead of shoving him?

Stand your ground........


You don't understand the Stand Your Ground law.....
 
If the guy who was shot- shot the shooter instead- would that have been legal?

The guy who shoved the shooter could have made a reasonable case that he was defending his girlfriend from imminent danger from an armed man who was threatening her.

What if he had just shot the guy instead of shoving him?

Stand your ground........

She didn't know he was armed nor did he brandish.
 
The minute you forcibly put your hands on someone for words you don't like and your actions could cause great harm, you open yourself up to lead poisoning.

Keep your hands to yourself. Its what ever Kindergartner learns.
 

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