ACORN Finally Charged

[jreeves]

What work was the chartiable aspect of ACORN performing? Even though this wasn't your original question.

well, no extra credit for you
here is from YOUR earlier post:

NPOs are often charities or service organizations;

embarrassing, isn't it
or have you yet been able to recognize that a NPO has no obligation to fulfill charity work. the non-profit clients i serve typically are lenders. extending loans - by non-profits - is NOT issuing charity
free your mind and your ass will follow


this is sure to be rich

well, there you go. it should be very easy for you to show us where ACORN has been prosecuted for operating outside the law and/or had its 501(c)3 status revoked by the IRS. but - surprise - you didn't

Which would disqualify them for any funds that appropriated to them for the purpose of charity.

hopefully, by now you are able to ascertain that a NPO does not necessarily equate to a charity.
and, neither have you offered us evidence that ACORN has been denied funds appropriated to them. had you done so, that would indirectly indicate your assertions against ACORN have some foundation. but again, you didn't because you can't
of course, we now return to your prior inability to show that ACORN received directed appropriations. and you continue to evidence that inability to offer such proof

As far as them influencing elections, here you go....
Local News | Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud | Seattle Times Newspaper
ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.
More Acorn Voter Fraud Comes to Light - WSJ.com
On Monday, Nevada officials charged Acorn, its regional director and its Las Vegas field director with submitting thousands of fraudulent voter registration forms last year.


I guess your reading comprehension is on par with your thinking skills, they both need great improvement.

yep, you nailed me. because if you are correct with those violations then ACORN must necessarily have lost its NPO status and had its 501(c)3 tax exemption withdrawn by the IRS because it has acted outside the law
but you haven't shown that. because you can't. because ACORN has not violated its eleemosynary status

in short, you are pissed because ACORN is a good contractor. it was hired (NOT by government) to get more voters registered and it did that effectively. and your guy lost, in no small part, due to the effectiveness of ACORN's operations. losing hurts doesn't it. you have reason to blame that on ACORN ... to some degree ... in addition to a pitiful republican campaign

The crimes ACORN has been charged with are in my previous post, damn are you really this dumb or are you acting? If your acting you should go to Hollywood, you would make a lot of money. Now if ACORN is performing work for the government, then there would be a governmental contract. In which, the contract would contain consideration on both sides. It wouldn't be a one sided giving of money. Hence, why I am sure you used the word "contractor" when you referred to ACORN.

This is the Hud website that lays out money that ACORN received under non-profit grantees .
http://www.hud.gov/groups/grantees.cfm
grant definition | Dictionary.com
grant
 
1. to bestow or confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.

Just to make this clear as water and so that you don't misunderstand. I will use the example of college grants.
Free College Grants to Pay for Your Higher Education
Grants are distinctly different from both scholarships and student loans in that they are free gift money—so unlike student loans that must be repaid—and primarily need-based, compared to traditionally merit-based scholarships.


By this example, we can conclude that ACORN provided no consideration which would preclude this from being any form of legal contract.

Again I want to make sure you understand each and every aspect of what I am saying so....

consideration definition | Dictionary.com
con⋅sid⋅er⋅a⋅tion
8. Law.
a. something that suffices to make an informal promise legally binding, usually some value given in exchange for the promise.


Therefore your conclusion that ACORN somehow performed a contract is simply not true and is completely ignorant. Dumbass...

 

[DamnYankee]

It would be great to see congress stop the money flow to acorn. Then Daley, Soros and the rest of the Chicago gang would have to pony up.

i keep seeing this reference to a congressional directed money flow to ACORN ... yet no one is able/willing to offer a cite which shows the federal funds which have been appropriated for its activities

is that just misinformation which keeps getting passed around or is there actually documentation of its federal funding sources?

Here's an example

Nonprofits Vie For Millions in Neighborhood Stabilization Funds
Critics worry money could benefit liberal advocacy groups

By David N. Bass
February 16, 2009

RALEIGH — Local governments and nonprofits in North Carolina are vying for millions in federal dollars meant to bail out counties suffering from the housing crisis, but critics fear the funds could benefit private lenders and liberal advocacy groups more than struggling homeowners.

Congress allocated $4 billion in July for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. The funds, part of the $700 billion bail out of the mortgage industry, enable local governments to purchase and resell foreclosed homes, ostensibly avoiding blight. North Carolina qualified for $52 million in NSP funds, and Charlotte received an additional $5 million.

Supporters say the funds will help homeowners weather a turbulent economy, but state-level homeowner groups and free-market advocates are approaching the program cautiously in light of numerous scandals involving misuse of mortgage bailout funds.

“We’re concerned that they really stay on point with housing,” said Chris Estes, executive director of the North Carolina Housing Coalition, an organization that campaigns for low- and moderate-income housing.

“We want to make sure that cities don’t use this to supplant some of their other funding and use it to build a park or a parking deck,” he said.

The U.S. Office of Inspector General identifies NSP funds as “high risk.” That, mixed with weeks of headlines about misappropriation of government funds, has some members of North Carolina’s congressional delegation worried, too.

“With much of the money being funneled to liberal political groups like ACORN, [which] is under federal investigation, there must be strict oversight to prevent the waste and abuse of tax dollars,” said U.S. Rep. Patrick McHenry, R-10th, an opponent of the bailout.

U.S. Rep. Virginia Foxx, R-5th, another critic of the bailout, called the NSP constitutionally suspect. “Like I’ve said before, if you liked the way the federal government handled Hurricane Katrina relief, you’ll love the way they handle real estate investments,” she said.

continued

Nonprofits Vie For Millions in Neighborhood Stabilization Funds

no one mentioned the mob or other illicit money sources. that would make ACORN an ineligible enterprise, which is not the actual circumstance. i would say "nice try" but it wasn't

what was also not mentioned was a cite to show congress is allocating federal monies for ACORN directed activities

the kool aid klatch keeps making that assertion but cannot show that it is true. man up and show some poof of your allegations

You didn't care for the analogy? Why am I not surprised? Woman up I shall, since you seem incapable of connecting the dots....
Please allow me to re-direct your attention to the above highlighted "Neighborhood Stabilization Program".
Here is a description of their program objectives (what the $$ are supposed to be used for).
Neighborhood Stabilization Program Targeting

Hmm.... Now here is where some of those $$ were "funnelled" to:
ACORN Gets Money from Neighborhood Stabilization Programs in Stimulus Bill! « The Truth Tracker


Here are the dots.... Congress appropriates $$ to the Neighborhood Stabilization Program (for specific spending) who, in turn, "funnels" funds to ACORN who spends $$ engaging in voter fraud activities. Newsflash: Grant funds spent on activities other than specified is illicit (so much for analogy) and funds received by ACORN were received from Congress.

 

[DamnYankee]

Dayum.... Finally managed to get the multi-quote to work....

 

[justabubba]

The crimes ACORN has been charged with are in my previous post, damn are you really this dumb or are you acting? If your acting you should go to Hollywood, you would make a lot of money. Now if ACORN is performing work for the government, then there would be a governmental contract. In which, the contract would contain consideration on both sides. It wouldn't be a one sided giving of money. Hence, why I am sure you used the word "contractor" when you referred to ACORN.

This is the Hud website that lays out money that ACORN received under non-profit grantees .
Grantees/Non-Profits - HUD
grant definition | Dictionary.com
grant
 
1. to bestow or confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.

Just to make this clear as water and so that you don't misunderstand. I will use the example of college grants.
Free College Grants to Pay for Your Higher Education
Grants are distinctly different from both scholarships and student loans in that they are free gift money—so unlike student loans that must be repaid—and primarily need-based, compared to traditionally merit-based scholarships.


By this example, we can conclude that ACORN provided no consideration which would preclude this from being any form of legal contract.

Again I want to make sure you understand each and every aspect of what I am saying so....

consideration definition | Dictionary.com
con⋅sid⋅er⋅a⋅tion
8. Law.
a. something that suffices to make an informal promise legally binding, usually some value given in exchange for the promise.


Therefore your conclusion that ACORN somehow performed a contract is simply not true and is completely ignorant. Dumbass...

you must be proud of that cluelessness to put it on constant public display

a grant is a contract

a contractor is an awardee of a contract

ACORN is a contractor

now go connect the dots while awaiting the short bus' arrival

 

[jreeves]

The crimes ACORN has been charged with are in my previous post, damn are you really this dumb or are you acting? If your acting you should go to Hollywood, you would make a lot of money. Now if ACORN is performing work for the government, then there would be a governmental contract. In which, the contract would contain consideration on both sides. It wouldn't be a one sided giving of money. Hence, why I am sure you used the word "contractor" when you referred to ACORN.

This is the Hud website that lays out money that ACORN received under non-profit grantees .
Grantees/Non-Profits - HUD
grant definition | Dictionary.com
grant
 
1. to bestow or confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.

Just to make this clear as water and so that you don't misunderstand. I will use the example of college grants.
Free College Grants to Pay for Your Higher Education
Grants are distinctly different from both scholarships and student loans in that they are free gift money—so unlike student loans that must be repaid—and primarily need-based, compared to traditionally merit-based scholarships.


By this example, we can conclude that ACORN provided no consideration which would preclude this from being any form of legal contract.

Again I want to make sure you understand each and every aspect of what I am saying so....

consideration definition | Dictionary.com
con⋅sid⋅er⋅a⋅tion
8. Law.
a. something that suffices to make an informal promise legally binding, usually some value given in exchange for the promise.


Therefore your conclusion that ACORN somehow performed a contract is simply not true and is completely ignorant. Dumbass...

you must be proud of that cluelessness to put it on constant public display

a grant is a contract

a contractor is an awardee of a contract

ACORN is a contractor

now go connect the dots while awaiting the short bus' arrival

Omg...I obviously must break this down on a preschool level in order for you to understand.
grant definition | Dictionary.com
grant
  1. to bestow or confer, esp. by a formal act: to grant a charter.
bestow definition | Dictionary.com
be⋅stow
  1. to present as a gift; give; confer (usually fol. by on or upon):

What Must a Contract Contain to Be Legally Binding? | Company Activities & Management > Contracts & Bids from AllBusiness.com
For an agreement to be legal and binding, it must have some form of consideration. This means that all parties involved must receive consideration or something of value. Otherwise, it is considered a gift rather than a contract.

Sorry I don't have any coloring books with Contract Law 101 in it. I'm sorry maybe I could scan you some picture books in, so that you can grasp it?

 

[justabubba]

You didn't care for the analogy? Why am I not surprised? Woman up I shall, since you seem incapable of connecting the dots....

"analogy" is such an inadequate word to describe that proffered attempt at an explanation
connecting the dots would be possible if they were not rendered in invisible ink
but keep trying, that absence of a Y chromosome can be overcome with diligent effort - and a little luck

Please allow me to re-direct your attention to the above highlighted "Neighborhood Stabilization Program".
Here is a description of their program objectives (what the $$ are supposed to be used for).

Neighborhood Stabilization Program Targeting

Hmm.... Now here is where some of those $$ were "funnelled" to:
ACORN Gets Money from Neighborhood Stabilization Programs in Stimulus Bill! « The Truth Tracker


Here are the dots.... Congress appropriates $$ to the Neighborhood Stabilization Program (for specific spending) who, in turn, "funnels" funds to ACORN who spends $$ engaging in voter fraud activities. Newsflash: Grant funds spent on activities other than specified is illicit (so much for analogy) and funds received by ACORN were received from Congress.

so the appropriated federal monies are "funneled" to ACORN which you then infer are misspent performing voter recruiting activities. again, you insist that ACORN misused the federal funds dedicated for neighborhood stabilization and instead applied those monies to do voter recruiting. but this is where the dots are invisible. you failed (a key word in describing your posts) to show us in any way that fraud was committed by ACORN. and using federal funds for other than their designated purpose rises to the level of fraud. so, because you have nothing to point to, you now make stuff up and expect us to believe it? it doesn't work that way. it's your fantasy, just like the guy who says he will respect you in the morning. it has not happened, like the fellow who said he would call you
but keep trying because i enjoy the opportunity to laugh at the absurd, such as your posts filled with nothing more than the trifles regurgitated by the neocons for the lemming extremist wannabes

 

[jreeves]

"analogy" is such an inadequate word to describe that proffered attempt at an explanation
connecting the dots would be possible if they were not rendered in invisible ink
but keep trying, that absence of a Y chromosome can be overcome with diligent effort - and a little luck


so the appropriated federal monies are "funneled" to ACORN which you then infer are misspent performing voter recruiting activities. again, you insist that ACORN misused the federal funds dedicated for neighborhood stabilization and instead applied those monies to do voter recruiting. but this is where the dots are invisible. you failed (a key word in describing your posts) to show us in any way that fraud was committed by ACORN. and using federal funds for other than their designated purpose rises to the level of fraud. so, because you have nothing to point to, you now make stuff up and expect us to believe it? it doesn't work that way. it's your fantasy, just like the guy who says he will respect you in the morning. it has not happened, like the fellow who said he would call you
but keep trying because i enjoy the opportunity to laugh at the absurd, such as your posts filled with nothing more than the trifles regurgitated by the neocons for the lemming extremist wannabes

Your whole basis for how ACORN receives their money is factually incorrect and you have displayed your complete ignorance.

 

[DamnYankee]

"analogy" is such an inadequate word to describe that proffered attempt at an explanation
connecting the dots would be possible if they were not rendered in invisible ink
but keep trying, that absence of a Y chromosome can be overcome with diligent effort - and a little luck


so the appropriated federal monies are "funneled" to ACORN which you then infer are misspent performing voter recruiting activities. again, you insist that ACORN misused the federal funds dedicated for neighborhood stabilization and instead applied those monies to do voter recruiting. but this is where the dots are invisible. you failed (a key word in describing your posts) to show us in any way that fraud was committed by ACORN. and using federal funds for other than their designated purpose rises to the level of fraud. so, because you have nothing to point to, you now make stuff up and expect us to believe it? it doesn't work that way. it's your fantasy, just like the guy who says he will respect you in the morning. it has not happened, like the fellow who said he would call you
but keep trying because i enjoy the opportunity to laugh at the absurd, such as your posts filled with nothing more than the trifles regurgitated by the neocons for the lemming extremist wannabes

LMAO! Sexism is unbecoming to a liberal.... <chuckle> And the failure on your part to accept facts as reality, or the fact that your eyesight borders on blindness, is hardly my problem! Run along now.... The testosterone level is at 5....

 

[Big Cat]

well, push the ball to the goal line
don't go off tangent and refer to mob funding, a contractor's eligibility to fulfill federal contracts as any other, but instead show us that congress has - as you an your ilk insists - appropriated federal funds for ACORN directed operations

until you can do that, keep guarding the water bucket ... an assignment worthy of your obvious talents

Any monies received by ACORN funds all their ops. Are you saying that Housing and Fanny-Freddy- have not funded ACORN? I have that bucket ready for a deep drink, have some.

 

[DamnYankee]

Any monies received by ACORN funds all their ops. Are you saying that Housing and Fanny-Freddy- have not funded ACORN? I have that bucket ready for a deep drink, have some.

What flavor is the kool-aid in there?

 

[justabubba]

Any monies received by ACORN funds all their ops. Are you saying that Housing and Fanny-Freddy- have not funded ACORN? I have that bucket ready for a deep drink, have some.

all monies received by ACORN cannot be dedicated to its directed activities, such as voter registration, without recourse
when the contractor bids on a federal project, it would normally include its operating expenses to fulfill the statement of work, the company's overhead (proportioned for the amount of work this award will constitute to overall business) and profit from the work accomplished (referred to as "surplus" for nonprofits).
so, a portion would go to ACORN for its overhead but only in an amount consistent with the overhead costs incurred by that project. and ACORN can spend its profit/surplus in any way authorized by its charter, just as would be the case for any contributions

so, while i thank you for the kool aid offer, based on the de minimis understanding exhibited in your post, your preferred flavor is obviously harmful to brain cells

 

[jreeves]

all monies received by ACORN cannot be dedicated to its directed activities, such as voter registration, without recourse
when the contractor bids on a federal project, it would normally include its operating expenses to fulfill the statement of work, the company's overhead (proportioned for the amount of work this award will constitute to overall business) and profit from the work accomplished (referred to as "surplus" for nonprofits).
so, a portion would go to ACORN for its overhead but only in an amount consistent with the overhead costs incurred by that project. and ACORN can spend its profit/surplus in any way authorized by its charter, just as would be the case for any contributions

so, while i thank you for the kool aid offer, based on the de minimis understanding exhibited in your post, your preferred flavor is obviously harmful to brain cells

So how again does ACORN perform a contract when in fact they receive gifts or grants? Dumbass

 

[DiveCon]

So how again does ACORN perform a contract when in fact they receive gifts or grants? Dumbass

i dont think bubba understands the difference between bidding for a contract and recieving a grant

 

[justabubba]

So how again does ACORN perform a contract when in fact they receive gifts or grants? Dumbass

a grant is only a specific form of a contract
the recipient, the grantee, is a contractor ... expected to fulfill the obligations as set forth in the grant contract. see, the grantor still directs the activities of the grantee/contractor

and a mild admonition [apologies to the originator for the edit]:

it is better to be thought a fool than to *write your opinion* and prove it

 

[jreeves]

a grant is only a specific form of a contract
the recipient, the grantee, is a contractor ... expected to fulfill the obligations as set forth in the grant contract. see, the grantor still directs the activities of the grantee/contractor

and a mild admonition [apologies to the originator for the edit]:

bullshit they receive a gift or aka handout, which I have well established

 

[DiveCon]

bullshit they receive a gift or aka handout, which I have well established

anyone with an iota of sense knows this long before you pointed it out to him

 

[jreeves]

bullshit they receive a gift or aka handout, which I have well established

anyone with an iota of sense knows this long before you pointed it out to him

exactly

 

[DamnYankee]

a grant is only a specific form of a contract.
the recipient, the grantee, is a contractor ... expected to fulfill the obligations as set forth in the grant contract. see, the grantor still directs the activities of the grantee/contractor

That doesn't make it not a gift. Besides the point....

The grantor is supposed to direct the activities....

Pre-Award Work Group
The Pre-Award Work Group is responsible for developing policy proposals for streamlining and simplifying the phase of the grants life cycle that extends from the time of announcement of a funding opportunity through the making of the award. The specific areas that the Work Group addresses are: 1) the grants policy framework; 2) announcements of funding opportunities; 3)Â certifications and assurances; 4) award format and content, including terms and conditions; and 5)Â non-procurement suspension and debarment, which the Work Group addresses in partnership with the Interagency Suspension and Debarment Committee established by Executive Order 12549. The Work Group coordinates its proposals, as needed, with other interagency groups, including the groups that are responsible for developing application forms and data elements for them.

Post-Award Work Group
The Post-Award Work Group is responsible for identifying streamlining and simplification opportunities in the grants life cycle phase during which recipients perform project activities under their awards and submit progress, financial, and other required reports (other than audit reports). In addition, it covers the grantee’s request for and receipt of payment, the monitoring of awards for compliance and progress, and the provision of federal technical assistance. The objectives of this Work Group are to: 1) streamline and simplify reporting requirements and the payment process, 2) achieve greater uniformity in business processes related to reporting while improving the quality of information reported by recipients, and 3) to make the federal cost principles more consistent where appropriate.

Audit Oversight Work Group
The Audit Oversight Work Group is responsible for improving the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) A-133 single audit process to ensure that audits provide useful and reliable information to federal agencies and pass-through entities and that recipient audits are in compliance with federal audit requirements. The objectives of this Work Group include: 1) maintaining the OMB A-133 Compliance Supplement for up-to-date information on federal requirements, 2) verifying that single audits are conducted and submitted as required, 3) ensuring that audit quality is adequate, and 4) improving the services provided by the Federal Audit Clearinghouse. The activities of this Work Group are being carried out by several subgroups addressing the A-133 Compliance Supplement, audit quality, sub-recipient monitoring, and auditing of indirect costs.

Grants.gov - Grants Organizations


Now, by all means, explain how $$ from the Neighborhood Stabilization Program found its way into the hands of ACORN. Oh wait.... ACORN is a sub-grantee, right? Or an approved "consultant/sub-contractor"? 'Splain....

 

[justabubba]

y'all peruse 31 U.S.C. 6301-6305:
US CODE: Title 31,CHAPTER 63&mdash;USING PROCUREMENT CONTRACTS AND GRANT AND COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS
then get back and share with us how the distinction between the award of a contract versus a grant has any impact on the discussion at hand

it doesn't but when you recognize that, don't shrink away from your discovery. let the other members of your kool aid contingent know, too

 

[jreeves]

y'all peruse 31 U.S.C. 6301-6305:
US CODE: Title 31,CHAPTER 63&mdash;USING PROCUREMENT CONTRACTS AND GRANT AND COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS
then get back and share with us how the distinction between the award of a contract versus a grant has any impact on the discussion at hand

it doesn't but when you recognize that, don't shrink away from your discovery. let the other members of your kool aid contingent know, too

Dumbass, you can't change the meaning of a word. The word grant is to bestow something on someone, or in other words giving a gift. Gifts are specifically outside the realm of contracts.

From your link, one of little mind.
CHAPTER 63—USING PROCUREMENT CONTRACTS AND GRANT AND COOPERATIVE AGREEMENTS
# § 6301. Purposes
# § 6302. Definitions
# § 6303. Using procurement contracts
# § 6304. Using grant agreements
# § 6305. Using cooperative agreements
# § 6306. Authority to vest title in tangible personal property for research
# § 6307. Interpretative guidelines and exemptions
# § 6308. Use of multiple relationships for different parts of jointly financed projects


From 6304...

An executive agency shall use a grant agreement as the legal instrument reflecting a relationship between the United States Government and a State, a local government, or other recipient when—
(1) the principal purpose of the relationship is to transfer a thing of value to the State or local government or other recipient to carry out a public purpose of support or stimulation authorized by a law of the United States instead of acquiring (by purchase, lease, or barter) property or services for the direct benefit or use of the United States Government; and
(2) substantial involvement is not expected between the executive agency and the State, local government, or other recipient when carrying out the activity contemplated in the agreement.


Or bestow upon....Cheese and rice, your stupid.
No where does it mention any consideration upon the recipient....