Abu Ghraib Guards: We Were Scapegoats For Bush

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bfgrn, May 3, 2009.

  1. Bfgrn
    Offline

    Bfgrn Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    16,829
    Thanks Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    WHERE was DICK cheney when these "bad apples" were on trial...WHY didn't he come out then and say they were just "following orders" ???

    From The Times
    May 2, 2009

    ‘Abu Ghraib US prison guards were scapegoats for Bush’ lawyers claim

    [​IMG]
    Charles Graner plans to appeal against his conviction for abusing prisoners

    Prison guards jailed for abusing inmates at the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq are planning to appeal against their convictions on the ground that recently released CIA torture memos prove that they were scapegoats for the Bush Administration.

    The photographs of prisoner abuse at the Baghdad jail in 2004 sparked worldwide outrage but the previous administration, from President Bush down, blamed the incident on a few low-ranking “bad apples” who were acting on their own.

    The decision by President Obama to release the memos showed that the harsh interrogation tactics were approved and authorised at the highest levels of the White House.

    Some of the guards who were convicted of abuse want to return to court and argue that the previous administration sanctioned the abuse but withheld its role from their trials.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article6207484.ece
     
  2. jillian
    Offline

    jillian Princess Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    69,551
    Thanks Received:
    13,012
    Trophy Points:
    2,220
    Location:
    The Other Side of Paradise
    Ratings:
    +22,427
    Now they want to say they were following orders?

    they were grinning idiots who deserve whatever punishment they get.

    I'm not big on the whole following orders thing anyway.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  3. RetiredGySgt
    Offline

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,518
    Thanks Received:
    5,898
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,929
    FUNNY AS HELL, they haven't a leg to stand on and you should know that.

    First they were not interrogating prisoners, they were abusing them.

    Second they were not using the approved methods authorized by the Government.

    Third no one ordered them to do what they did.

    And FOURTH, the Appeal goes through the military which is NOT a civilian Court and the Lawyers are not going to be allowed to make sensationalist statements in the hopes of swaying a Judge or Jury. They can not make random claims with NO EVIDENCE that disparages Officers either. They can not make claims against the Prosecution with out concrete evidence.

    Ohh and they had a mandatory APPEAL when convicted.

    Guess what else? The military does not give one rats ass what some civilian paper implies or lies about their criminal Court system.

    I am betting the Military does not even grant an appeal.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  4. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,617
    They may have felt they had the liberty to abuse prisoners, but they elected to do that on their own.

    I say they AND their chain of command need to be stripped of uniform.

    I feel EXACTLY the same way about any tool of the truly evil men who sometimes take control, for what that's worth.

    I'd have hanged the prison guards in the concentration camps right along with the monsters who order those camps.

    Evil exists not simply because evil men gain power, but because evil men also willingly do their bidding.
     
  5. foggedinn
    Offline

    foggedinn VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    600
    Thanks Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +107
    This is a misuse of the term "scapegoat".

    A scapegoat is an innocent on whom evil acts are lain. (ref: Leviticus 16)

    What's happening here is more akin to the way we prosecute the war on drugs. We convict and imprison street level drug dealers and tell ourselves that we've done what the law requires. To go higher on the food chain is not pc.
     
  6. garyd
    Offline

    garyd Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,943
    Thanks Received:
    401
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +401
    When the low levels go beyond where the legal limits were placed they've no one to blame but themsleves. In fact, in this case it is they who are trying to scapegoat their superiors. Assholes caught with there fingers in the pie are always trying to find some way to weasel out of the punishment they got for sticking their fingers where they didn't belong in the first place.
     
  7. Xenophon
    Offline

    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,705
    Thanks Received:
    3,750
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    In your head
    Ratings:
    +3,751
    Bullshit.

    They are guilty as sin and they know it.

    Anyone who has served can tell you that when you get an illeagal order you refuse to obey it.

    They had no such orders from above, it was all about a sadistic prick and incompitent CO.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. Bfgrn
    Offline

    Bfgrn Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    16,829
    Thanks Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    You are so full of it, your breath smells like shit...

    People that refuse to follow orders are ostracized, punished and subjected to ridicule by higher ups AND peers that comply...

    Get off your self righteous horse and look at REALITY...
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. elvis
    Offline

    elvis BANNED Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    25,882
    Thanks Received:
    4,303
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4,303
    Do you have proof that the government ORDERED these soldiers to abuse the prisoners?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. auditor0007
    Offline

    auditor0007 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    12,566
    Thanks Received:
    2,255
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    Toledo, OH
    Ratings:
    +3,218
    Orders for harsh interrogation tactics were not given directly to them. While certain tactics may have been used on certain prisoners, they did not have authorization to randomly terrorize prisoners. These were just guards gone bad, and they got what they deserved.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1

Share This Page