Abstinence only works?!?!?

[Truthmatters]

One study

 

[Full-Auto]

Abstinence will only work if the teenager buys in, otherwise its useless.

Or if they're ugly.

You overlook the invention of beer goggles.

 

[Seawytch]

Sex education programs that include abstinence will work. Abstinence ONLY programs do not.

 

[Truthmatters]

sixth- and seventh-graders from having sex within a two-year period

This one age group.

I have not known many kids this age who I would think would benifit from learning how to apply a condom.

These kids are too young

 

[Wry Catcher]

Sex Education is not a stand alone topic, it should be part of a comprehensive, age appropriate, curriculum on health.

 

[Katzndogz]

First - credit to Missourian for posting this link.

Second, let me start with a disclaimer that, though I fall pretty far to the right on many issues, I have never believed in abstinence programs and thought them rather foolish. Who believe that people actually follow an abstinence program anyway? I have seen many members laugh at anyone for even suggesting it and ridiculing them as the programs are completely ineffective. This study, on CNN health - certainly not a RW echo chamber so don't attack the source, says otherwise:
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths - CNN

Personally, I think it may be due to the limited scope (age most likely) the study take but it may be a point that we need a merging of BOTH abstinence only programs at a young age and sexual education courses later (like high school age).


Your thoughts?

"In “A Study of History,” by Arnold J. Toynbee, in the chapter called ‘Schism in the Soul, “Toynbee observed that one of the consistent symptoms of a disintegrating civilization is that elites begin to imitate the bottom of society. Toynbee says the growth phase of civilization is led by a creative minority who have a strong, self-confident sense of style, virtue and purpose. The uncreative majority follows along through attempts to imitate the creative minority. In disintegrating civilizations, the creative minority (elites) are no longer confident and setting the example. They "lapse into truancy" (reject the obligations of citizenship) and "surrender to a sense of promiscuity" (succumb to vulgarization of manners, the arts and language). Until a few decades ago, the groups we used to call "low-class" or "trash", are now called the underclass. The upper-class, instead of challenging trashy behavior, often imitates and placates it.

a. … four-letter words were unknown in public discourse and among the elites and were used sparingly even in private discourse. Today, vulgar language knows no class, sex, age or place. As late as 1960, sleeping with one's boyfriend was mostly a lower-class thing. It was deemed sluttish and something to be kept secret; today it's open and assumed to be normal…. In some instances, unwed mothers proudly hold baby showers celebrating their illegitimate offspring. Homosexual marriages were unheard of; today, in some jurisdictions, homosexual marriages have legal sanction. Of course, to be judgmental about the new codes of conduct is to risk being labeled a prude and possibly a racist, sexist or a homophobe.”
America's New Role Models


There was a time when said programs were unnecessary.....


I you might find Charles Murray's "Coming Apart" an epiphany.

I saved this quote. Thank you.

Yes, this is the path disintegrations civilizations take in becoming degenerate cultures.

 

[FuelRod]

The article also lists 6th and 7th graders (12 and 13 year olds) as the study group and that:

Among students who received instruction on overall good health, but not having to do with sex directly, nearly 47 percent had sexual activity in the two years after the class.

So all it tells us right now is they are keeping their pants up until they are 14 or 15. Not exactly a huge shock. Younger kids have more of a fear factor working.
This is my just opinion. I have kids in this age range and would like to think they will stay abstain into adulthood but also have to be realistic.

 

[Rocko]

yes telling kids the beifits of waiting until they are older to enguage in sex is a good idea.

I have no problem with telling them this , I told my own child this.

Its when they want it to be the only thing you teach them about sex that it is wrong

Educate them about sex and also tell them WHY its best to wait and why its best to limit your partners.

yeah sex education....like there's so much to learn...let's spend billions.

I think maybe no one ever taught you all there is to learn about sex.

There is mountains of sceince about sex.

Your hand and a towel is not all there is.

Yeah, well I managed to learn the crucial part about sex without the government teaching me. When I have sex, I use a condom so I don't get anyone pregnant, or get a disease.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Abstinence will only work if the teenager buys in, otherwise its useless.

and, you know, you hope for the best and you hope they make good choices. but in the same breath as any parent says "you shouldn't..." they should also say "but if you do.....".

it's called being realistic and not burying your head in the sand.

more important, imo, to teach them to be responsible and safe when they have sex than to pretend they won't have sex if you take away their condoms.

"...it's called being realistic and not burying your head in the sand."

Nor is this a pat on the head and 'now be a good boy/girl' situation.

Here is a dose of being realistic:



“The strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison, is that they were raised by a single parent”.
C.C. Harper and S.S. McLanahan, “Father Absence and Youth Incarceration”, Paper presented at the Annual Meeting of the American Sociological Assoc., San Francisco, CA, 1998

In 1996, 70% of inmates in state juvenile detention centers serving long sentences, were raised by single mothers. Wade Horn, “Why There Is No Substitute For Parents”, IMPRIMIS 26, NO.6, June, 1997

72% of juvenile murderers, and 60% of rapists came from single mother homes.
Chuck Colson, “How Shall We Live?” Tyndale House , 2004, p.323

70% of drop-outs, and 70% of teen suicides come from single mother homes.
Wade Horn, “Why There Is No Substitute For Parents,” IMPRIMIS 26, N0. 6, June 1997
70% of runaways, 70% of juvenile delinquents, and 70% of Child murderers, come from single mother homes.
Richard E. Redding, “It’s Really About Sex”, Duke Univ. Journal of Gender Law and Policy, Jan.1, 2008

“Girls raised without fathers are more sexually promiscuous, and more likely to end up divorced.”
Wade Horn, “Why There Is No Substitute For Parents”, IMPRIMIS 26, No.6, June, 1997

“After controlling for single motherhood, the difference between black and white crime rates disappeared.”
Progressive Policy Institute, 1990, quoted by David Blankenhorn, “Fatherless America: Confronting Our Most Urgent Social Problem,” New York, Harper Perennial, 1996, p.31

63% of all youth suicides,
70% of all teen pregnancies,
71% of all adolescent chemical/substance abusers,
80% of all prison inmates, and
90% of all homeless and runaway children came from single mother homes.
Bob Ray Sanders, “Hey Y’all, Let’s Fill The Hall (Of Fame), Ft. Worth Star Telegram, Oct.28,2007

50% of single mothers are below the poverty line, their children are 6 times more likely to be in poverty than children with married parents.
Chuck Colson, “How Shall We Live”, Tyndale House.

Wise up.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sex Education is not a stand alone topic, it should be part of a comprehensive, age appropriate, curriculum on health.

....because there is no indication that such programs work.

 

[Truthmatters]

They need to stay away from sex until they are ready for the adult needs involved with taking care of themselves.

There is also the emotional component.

That age varies from person to person.

At first you give them talks about staying away from such a relationship becasue it would harm them because physically and emotionally they are not ready.

No child should be having sex


If you wait until your body is fully formed it is better for your physical and emotional well being.

At that point its a matter of being emotionally able to deal with the repercussions that can occur.

Both physical and emotional repercussions.

You talk to a kid like that about sex and watch them eat up the information.

 

[Truthmatters]

yeah sex education....like there's so much to learn...let's spend billions.

I think maybe no one ever taught you all there is to learn about sex.

There is mountains of sceince about sex.

Your hand and a towel is not all there is.

Yeah, well I managed to learn the crucial part about sex without the government teaching me. When I have sex, I use a condom so I don't get anyone pregnant, or get a disease.

you have only scraped the surface kid.

 

[Rocko]

They need to stay away from sex until they are ready for the adult needs involved with taking care of themselves.

There is also the emotional component.

That age varies from person to person.

At first you give them talks about staying away from such a relationship becasue it would harm them because physically and emotionally they are not ready.

No child should be having sex


If you wait until your body is fully formed it is better for your physical and emotional well being.

At that point its a matter of being emotionally able to deal with the repercussions that can occur.

Both physical and emotional repercussions.

You talk to a kid like that about sex and watch them eat up the information.

I think that's the role of parenting......

 

[Katzndogz]

Sex Education is not a stand alone topic, it should be part of a comprehensive, age appropriate, curriculum on health.

....because there is no indication that such programs work.

Such programs are obviously working to further someone's goals.

 

[Avatar4321]

Anyone who thinks abstinence only works is a naive fool

Well, when you can point to a virgin who is pregnant (outside Christ's mother) or one that has STDs, you might be able to persuade me that Chastity doesn't work.

 

[FA_Q2]

sixth- and seventh-graders from having sex within a two-year period

This one age group.

I have not known many kids this age who I would think would benifit from learning how to apply a condom.

These kids are too young

These kids are sexually active in over 10% of the cases at that age and in many places, like New York as stated in this article, are actually teaching sex ed classes like those in this very study: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/nyregion/in-new-york-city-a-new-mandate-on-sex-education.html
This is at the middle school level...

And yes, it is one study. That does not make a case for unequivocally stating that abstinence only does not work. The study is clear that it does and works into the start of high school years. The data needs to be extended though. I want to know how this pans out in 5 years and 10 years. Also - data on whether or not that sex was practiced safely would be useful. Also of note is that the abstinence only course did NOT say anything about marriage or morality. It was a simple do not have sex until you're ready course.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think maybe no one ever taught you all there is to learn about sex.

There is mountains of sceince about sex.

Your hand and a towel is not all there is.

Yeah, well I managed to learn the crucial part about sex without the government teaching me. When I have sex, I use a condom so I don't get anyone pregnant, or get a disease.

you have only scraped the surface kid.

So unless you've had speific instruction from the government, you can only scratch the surface?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Anyone who thinks abstinence only works is a naive fool

Abstinence is 100% effective at preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs.

Now getting people to practice abstinence is a horse of a different color.

 

[Truthmatters]

Anyone who thinks abstinence only works is a naive fool

Well, when you can point to a virgin who is pregnant (outside Christ's mother) or one that has STDs, you might be able to persuade me that Chastity doesn't work.

guess what chastity does work , its when they fail to stay "chaste".

Dont you get that?

 

[Avatar4321]

Abstinence will only work if the teenager buys in, otherwise its useless.

How is that any different than birth control or condoms? It only works if the teen buys in.