About That Torture Manual

[TheStripey1]

The main purpose in compiling the conventions was an attempt to protect civilians and POW. When the competing side is not a signatory the conventions are off, since it is insanity to hold one side to rules the other refuses.

When you stoop to using the tactics of terrorists you too become terrorists. And at that point, the terrorists seeking to destroy our way of life will have won. Thanks kathianne et al.

 

[TheStripey1]

If you allow an enemy to exploit a standard you hold yourself to but he does not adhere to, you're hamstringing yourself.

And yes, you can use the same or worse tactics than your enemy to combat him with equal or more force without losing your ideals nor your identitiy.

When you stoop to using the same tactics of terror the terrorists use, you lose. You become that which you despise. A terrorist.

 

[Annie]

When you stoop to using the tactics of terrorists you too become terrorists. And at that point, the terrorists seeking to destroy our way of life will have won. Thanks kathianne et al.

Sorry, when we start targeting civilians for the sake of doing so, talk to me. You are referring to 'torture', not necessarily stooping to the same level even with that. Waterboarding is not drowning, much less beheading. Wearing panties on one's head or being led like a dog, is much different than having one's genitals hacked off.

 

[Gunny]

When you stoop to using the same tactics of terror the terrorists use, you lose. You become that which you despise. A terrorist.

It's a bit more complex than a one-size-fits-all statement like this. Our collective, overly-self-righteous moral standard we insist our military adhere to is our Achille's heel when waging a war against an enemy who not only does nto hold the same moral standard, but exploits the fact that we do.

You know as well as I, war id reducing man to his basic, elemental animal state of kill or be killed. There's only one REAL rule ...WIN. If you are unwilling to do whatever it takes to win, you have no business engaging in war. If you are attacked and you are unwilling to do whatever it takes to win, then you will die, and your morals die with you.

You can possess all teh morals you want, and STILL have the understanding that in order to win in a live or die situation that you may have to go against them.

Morally, I am against the use of physical violence as a means to an end, period. I temper my idealistic, perfect world belief with the knowledge that there are those that do not believe the same as I do, and are perfectly willing to use violence as a means to an end and with whom there is NO negotiating.

My ideals will not perpetuate my life, my ideals nor my society. The knowledge and skill to beat the enemy at his own game WILL.

 

[red states rule]

When you stoop to using the same tactics of terror the terrorists use, you lose. You become that which you despise. A terrorist.

OMG - the conditions the poor little terrorists have to live in at GITMO

snip........

There is every indication that they are being treated in a humane and decent way. Even though we are dealing with some of the most vicious and dedicated terrorists, they are treated humanely, even down to the detail of having the direction of Mecca stenciled on an arrow on their bodies. This way, they know which direction to point in order to pray. The Koran is not touched by US personnel. They have a little basket on the cell wall in which only the detainees place and remove the Koran. Frankly, I have a feeling that a lot of my constituents would have difficulty with just how humanely we're treating some of the detainees. They are provided with food that conforms to the diet consistent with their religious beliefs. In addition, they have a library and other amenities.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/08/a_visit_to_gitmo.html

 

[TheStripey1]

The main purpose in compiling the conventions was an attempt to protect civilians and POW. When the competing side is not a signatory the conventions are off, since it is insanity to hold one side to rules the other refuses.

If you support the torture of ANYONE, you are no better than the terrorists are... you then become the evildoers bush spoke about...

Is that what you want? To be an evildoer? why?

 

[TheStripey1]

If you allow an enemy to exploit a standard you hold yourself to but he does not adhere to, you're hamstringing yourself.

And yes, you can use the same or worse tactics than your enemy to combat him with equal or more force without losing your ideals nor your identitiy.

You lose the moral high ground when you use their tactics... You become as they are.

Why do you not understand that?

 

[TheStripey1]

Sorry, when we start targeting civilians for the sake of doing so, talk to me. You are referring to 'torture', not necessarily stooping to the same level even with that. Waterboarding is not drowning, much less beheading. Wearing panties on one's head or being led like a dog, is much different than having one's genitals hacked off.

Then you will have no problem with me calling you ED from now on, right?

where ED = EvilDoer...

 

[TheStripey1]

It's a bit more complex than a one-size-fits-all statement like this. Our collective, overly-self-righteous moral standard we insist our military adhere to is our Achille's heel when waging a war against an enemy who not only does nto hold the same moral standard, but exploits the fact that we do.

You know as well as I, war id reducing man to his basic, elemental animal state of kill or be killed. There's only one REAL rule ...WIN. If you are unwilling to do whatever it takes to win, you have no business engaging in war. If you are attacked and you are unwilling to do whatever it takes to win, then you will die, and your morals die with you.

You can possess all teh morals you want, and STILL have the understanding that in order to win in a live or die situation that you may have to go against them.

Morally, I am against the use of physical violence as a means to an end, period. I temper my idealistic, perfect world belief with the knowledge that there are those that do not believe the same as I do, and are perfectly willing to use violence as a means to an end and with whom there is NO negotiating.

My ideals will not perpetuate my life, my ideals nor my society. The knowledge and skill to beat the enemy at his own game WILL.

whatever, GunnyL, if you stoop to their level, you become them. IF you use their tactics, you are no better than they are. If that means dying for your principles, then so be it.

It's a good day to die.

 

[mattskramer]

OMG - the conditions the poor little terrorists have to live in at GITMO

snip........

There is every indication that they are being treated in a humane and decent way. Even though we are dealing with some of the most vicious and dedicated terrorists, they are treated humanely, even down to the detail of having the direction of Mecca stenciled on an arrow on their bodies. This way, they know which direction to point in order to pray. The Koran is not touched by US personnel. They have a little basket on the cell wall in which only the detainees place and remove the Koran. Frankly, I have a feeling that a lot of my constituents would have difficulty with just how humanely we're treating some of the detainees. They are provided with food that conforms to the diet consistent with their religious beliefs. In addition, they have a library and other amenities.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/08/a_visit_to_gitmo.html

…and you can find web site articles that paint a different picture.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_gitmo

 

[TheStripey1]

…and you can find web site articles that paint a different picture.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_gitmo

rsr doesn't look for sites that oppose his delusional view of the world...

Good one, tho, matt...

 

[Gunny]

You lose the moral high ground when you use their tactics... You become as they are.

Why do you not understand that?

Oh I absolutely understand what you are saying. The difference is, when it comes to winning a fight, I have no pretenses to claiming the "moral high ground." If I am pushed hard enough that I actually have to fight, I'm going to win, and I damned-well don't care if I offend someone's morals along the way.

However, as stated above, I don't believe you lose the "moral high ground" by not allowing your morals/personal ideology to be exploited as a means of destroying you. It's called perfect-world ideology vs the reality of the situation. I can easily maintain my personal ideology/morals while at the same time being just as savage and ruthless as my enemy in order to defeat him.

That's not LOSING the "moral high ground" ... it's preserving it.

 

[CSM]

Oh I absolutely understand what you are saying. The difference is, when it comes to winning a fight, I have no pretenses to claiming the "moral high ground." If I am pushed hard enough that I actually have to fight, I'm going to win, and I damned-well don't care if I offend someone's morals along the way.

However, as stated above, I don't believe you lose the "moral high ground" by not allowing your morals/personal ideology to be exploited as a means of destroying you. It's called perfect-world ideology vs the reality of the situation. I can easily maintain my personal ideology/morals while at the same time being just as savage and ruthless as my enemy in order to defeat him.

That's not LOSING the "moral high ground" ... it's preserving it.

The moral high ground will kill you if your enemy is immoral/ammoral enough. As for myself, I would rather try to live with the guilt of having killed my enemy by whatever means necessary, than die knowing I held the moral high ground.

 

[red states rule]

The moral high ground will kill you if your enemy is immoral/ammoral enough. As for myself, I would rather try to live with the guilt of having killed my enemy by whatever means necessary, than die knowing I held the moral high ground.

Isn't that what the men and women of the US military are trained to do?

Thank God we have them