Abortion providers as Nuremburg Defendants

[Anguille]

I am not about laws of man...and have no desire to choose for anyone
I as opposed to you however..belive that.. god is love..and love is the answer to unwanted pregnancy not abortions..in most cases its 9 months of sacrifice required for the life of another to be spared..and to any woman that has made that unselfish choice i give my infinite respect

So are you saying it should not be regulated by law? It's up to a woman to choose what is right for her?

 

[eots]

Aaah yes, that aspect to. Often they will force the teen mother into getting an abortion to cover it up.

look you and your girl friends does not count as statical information

 

[KittenKoder]

look you and your girl friends does not count as statical information

*snicker* Jealous of my imaginary friend are you? Good to know you are in complete denial AND green ... with envy.

 

[KittenKoder]

and where did you come up with garbage statement ???..

Almost forgot this one, it's been all over the reported news on the subject ... of course that means you have to read 'unapproved' works, like works of science, factual history, and real statistics.

 

[Anguille]

Aaah yes, that aspect to. Often they will force the teen mother into getting an abortion to cover it up.

Forced abortion is just as bad as prevented abortion. In the article I read, young girls were often encouraged to have the baby and marry the father but then they not given any help in raising the child or learning how to maintain a long term relationship. Many of the girls were soon divorced and had to give up the child for adoption. Much more traumatic for all invloved in my opinion. The other interesting thing was how boys and girls were constantly told that unmarried sex was dirty while married sex was magical. The kids getting married had real problems when they discovered it was not easy to go from black to white when thinking about sex just because of a ceremony. They had real problems cultivating healthy and enjoyable sexual relationships with thier partners. This was true of bridegrooms as well as brides.

The other strange thing they had was this belief that you could be a born again virgin (!!!!!) if you denounced your previous sexual experiences. What a bunch of fantasies!!

 

[KittenKoder]

Forced abortion is just as bad as prevented abortion. In the article I read, young girls were often encouraged to have the baby and marry the father but then they not given any help in raising the child or learning how to maintain a long term relationship. Many of the girls were soon divorced and had to give up the child for adoption. Much more traumatic for all invloved in my opinion. The other interesting thing was how boys and girls were constantly told that unmarried sex was dirty while married sex was magical. The kids getting married had real problems when they discovered it was not easy to go from black to white when thinking about sex just because of a ceremony. They had real problems cultivating healthy and enjoyable sexual relationships with thier partners. This was true of bridegrooms as well as brides.

Though this goes a bit off topic and into another:
Don't they ever stop to think that this is probably why so many are now gay?

 

[Anguille]

Though this goes a bit off topic and into another:
Don't they ever stop to think that this is probably why so many are now gay?

Yes, probably turning to gay culture thinking that because their religious upbringing has made them fear be revolted by sex with the opposite sex, maybe that means they might find it easier with someone their own sex. Maybe those "converted gays" were never gay to begin with. They just found ways to overcome their learned disgust for the opposite sex. Some of them. Others are deluding themselves, I think.

I don't really think religion could make someone a true gay or straight, but it could sure make them psychologically unable to enjoy sex of any kind.

 

[eots]

So are you saying it should not be regulated by law? It's up to a woman to choose what is right for her?

no ..it is and always will be regulated to some degree and there are issues like late term abortion and public funding and that battle and debate is a valid one and will continue ..we need to play out this dramas but ultimately it will be a shift in human spiritual conciseness that ends the debate not mans laws..but no I would not criminalize a woman that made a wrong choice in her selfishness and ignorance

 

[Anguille]

Kitten, here is the article I read recently.

Dept. of Disputation
Red Sex, Blue Sex
Why do so many evangelical teen-agers become pregnant?
by Margaret Talbot
November 3, 2008 Text Size:
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The “sexual début” of an evangelical girl typically occurs just after she turns sixteen. Photograph by Mary Ellen Mark.

Keywords
Teen Pregnancy; Teen-agers; Evangelicals; Sexual Behavior; Christians; Premarital Sex; Regnerus, Mark In early September, when Sarah Palin, the Republican candidate for Vice-President, announced that her unwed seventeen-year-old daughter, Bristol, was pregnant, many liberals were shocked, not by the revelation but by the reaction to it. They expected the news to dismay the evangelical voters that John McCain was courting with his choice of Palin. Yet reports from the floor of the Republican Convention, in St. Paul, quoted dozens of delegates who seemed unfazed, or even buoyed, by the news. A delegate from Louisiana told CBS News, “Like so many other American families who are in the same situation, I think it’s great that she instilled in her daughter the values to have the child and not to sneak off someplace and have an abortion.” A Mississippi delegate claimed that “even though young children are making that decision to become pregnant, they’ve also decided to take responsibility for their actions and decided to follow up with that and get married and raise this child.” Palin’s family drama, delegates said, was similar to the experience of many socially conservative Christian families. As Marlys Popma, the head of evangelical outreach for the McCain campaign, told National Review, “There hasn’t been one evangelical family that hasn’t gone through some sort of situation.” In fact, it was Popma’s own “crisis pregnancy” that had brought her into the movement in the first place.

During the campaign, the media has largely respected calls to treat Bristol Palin’s pregnancy as a private matter. But the reactions to it have exposed a cultural rift that mirrors America’s dominant political divide. Social liberals in the country’s “blue states” tend to support sex education and are not particularly troubled by the idea that many teen-agers have sex before marriage, but would regard a teen-age daughter’s pregnancy as devastating news. And the social conservatives in “red states” generally advocate abstinence-only education and denounce sex before marriage, but are relatively unruffled if a teen-ager becomes pregnant, as long as she doesn’t choose to have an abortion.

to read the rest of the article click here:

Dept. of Disputation: Red Sex, Blue Sex: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker

 

[Anguille]

no ..it is and always will be regulated to some degree and there are issues like late term abortion and public funding and that battle and debate is a valid one and will continue ..we need to play out this dramas but ultimately it will be a shift in human spiritual conciseness that ends the debate not mans laws..but no I would not criminalize a woman that made a wrong choice in her selfishness and ignorance

Would you criminalize the person she authorized to perform the operation?

Nor would I criminalize a woman that made a wrong choice in her selfishness and ignorance and went ahead and had a baby.

The only regulation needed concerning abortion is guaranteeing the qualifications of the provider. Same as any other medical procedure. Patients should be protected from unlicensed quacks.

 

[eots]

so any articles on why so many teenage whores get pregnant..??

 

[Anguille]

so any articles on why so many teenage whores get pregnant..??

If by whore you mean prostitute, then I think you are mistaken. Most sex workers are better prepared to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancy and disease than the average uninformed teenager.

Perhaps by whore you are refering to sexually active teens, in which case you should read the article above. It explains quite well why so many children of the religious right end up as underage unwed mothers.

 

[eots]

If by whore you mean prostitute, then I think you are mistaken. Most sex workers are better prepared to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancy and disease than the average uninformed teenager.

Perhaps by whore you are refering to sexually active teens, in which case you should read the article above. It explains quite well why so many children of the religious right end up as underage unwed mothers.

no ..I am referring to trampy ass little hos that get there sexual morality from sex in the city and the f word

 

[eots]

Kitten, here is the article I read recently.

Dept. of Disputation
Red Sex, Blue Sex
Why do so many evangelical teen-agers become pregnant?
by Margaret Talbot
November 3, 2008 Text Size:
Small Text
Medium Text
Large Text Print E-Mail Feeds Single Page

The “sexual début” of an evangelical girl typically occurs just after she turns sixteen. Photograph by Mary Ellen Mark.

this is hardly relevant unless you view child birth as a horrible and unnatural act..and your claim was those that don't support abortion get the abortions
and now their the unwed mothers which one is it ?

 

[Anguille]

this is hardly relevant unless you view child birth as a horrible and unnatural act..and your claim was those that don't support abortion get the abortions
and no their the unwed mothers which one is it ?

You're really losing it eots. where do I say childbirth is a horrible and unnatural act?
Childbirth is perfectly natural, so is abortion. Giving birth to a child when abortion and birth control are an option is a selfish act, anyway you look at it. People have children because they want them. Nothing saintly about bringing another extra child in the world when kids await adoption and foster homes. People do most everything for selfish reasons, not just bear children.
It's deceitful to make young women think becoming a mother will improve their status in the eyes of the world.

Where do I claim that those who don't support abortion get abortion. That was Kitten's point. A valid one too, though it seems that now the trend is to go ahead and let the kid have the baby then screw the mother and her baby afterwards.

 

[KittenKoder]

no ..I am referring to trampy ass little hos that get there sexual morality from sex in the city and the f word

Oh, you are talking about the kids breeders have brainwashed into thinking that having children is what makes them human so they want them by age 10?

 

[Anguille]

no ..I am referring to trampy ass little hos that get there sexual morality from sex in the city and the f word

Whoa! Did your girlfriend just kick you to the curb or something? I'm sure you never behaved in a trampy ass manner or used the f word.

 

[Anguille]

Oh, you are talking about the kids breeders have brainwashed into thinking that having children is what makes them human so they want them by age 10?

No problem. They can become born again virgins!!!! It's easier than pie!

 

[KittenKoder]

No problem. They can become born again virgins!!!! It's easier than pie!

Like all you have to do is convert to christianity on your death bed and get into heaven! So, then they have to forgive the abortionists anyhow all they have to do is say a few hail marys or jump in a lake afterword anyhow.

 

[Steerpike]

If abortion becomes illegal, will ex-providers be like Nuremburg Defendants?

Years ago I went to a “pro life” meeting. I don’t recall the official name of the organization. By the way, I think that abortion should be allowed under certain circumstances. I was a visitor. I like to try to really understand the view points of other people.

I talked one-on-one with one of the gust speakers – to try to understand his perspective of the issue of Abortion. I asked him what he wanted to see in America. He advocated outlawing abortion and prosecuting those who had provided for abortions even when it was legal for providers to have done so. I asked him how he reasoned that doing so was just. I asked him about the phrase “ex post facto”. He explained that he knew the legal principal and then asked me if I knew about the “Nuremburg trials”. He said that Nazis were punished after the war for executing Jews, a practice that was legal and the Nazis were following orders.

He explained that some things are so evil and heinous to human psyche that the world, so to speak, is justified in punishing those who commit such atrocities even though it was legal to commit such wrongs when they were done.

Any comments?

Yeah, it is unconstitutional to do something like that and will therefore never happen. The Numerberg trials were not constrained by the U.S. Constitution. U.S. criminal law is.