Abortion Bullshit...

The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.
Abortion rates are highest in countries where procedure is illegal
January 19, 2012

Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

..... About 47,000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008, and another 8.5 million women had serious medical complications. Almost all unsafe abortions were in developing countries, where family planning and contraceptive programs have mostly levelled off.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...rtion-rates-unsafe-abortions-beverly-winikoff
It should come as no surprise that international studies don't support "Lumpy 1's" claims.

Since they finally realize that they can't impose their position on the public through the Supreme Court or the federal government, the social conservatives have changed strategies by invoking "states rights." This harkens back to the pre Civil War days when slavery was deemed to be a "states right."

In the 21stC, it makes lttle sense for abortion to be a felony in one state but perfectly legal in an adjacent jurisdiction.
 
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exodus 21:22. It says as long as the baby is born unharmed, the penalty is light.

Regardless, you are conflating the penalty with the actual crime. Clearly doing harm to the unborn child is a crime in the law you are citing. The issue is then how great the penalty is to be. But the fact is that the harming of the unborn is in itself a crime and forbidden. It is saying plainly that you cannot go around hitting pregnant women.





.
leave the bible out of law

I did not bring the bible into it. steelplate was attempting to use the bible to prove that God is okay with killing the unborn, but he misread it.

That aside, "thou shalt not murder" has been incorporated into our laws. So has the commandment against perjury.


.

first off, it's hard to keep religion out of a discussion on abortion. Second....I never seen the version of the Bible where it specifically says "as long as the baby is unharmed" it used the word miscarry...and no further harm done. Look up the definition of miscarry.

and I'm not trying to prove that "God is OK" with abortion. I'm not OK with abortion. It's just that there is enough ambiguity involved in this debate that we have to come up with a REASONABLE solution. REASONABLE, meaning that neither extreme gets what it wants.

I know the word compromise is foreign to the ideologically driven....but it's the way shit gets done......unless you live in a dictatorship or a Theocracy.....which we don't.
 
The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.
Abortion rates are highest in countries where procedure is illegal
January 19, 2012

Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

..... About 47,000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008, and another 8.5 million women had serious medical complications. Almost all unsafe abortions were in developing countries, where family planning and contraceptive programs have mostly levelled off.

Abortion rates are highest in countries where*procedure is illegal - New York Daily News
It should come as no surprise that international studies don't support "Lumpy 1's" claims.

Since they finally realize that they can't impose their position on the public through the Supreme Court or the federal government, the social conservatives have changed strategies by invoking "states rights." This harkens back to the pre Civil War days when slavery was deemed to be a "states right."

In the 21stC, it makes lttle sense for abortion to be a felony in one state but perfectly legal in an adjacent jurisdiction.

I'm talking about America not some African country where they use broken bottles, drug overdoses or some witch doctor recipe.

So you believe slavery and abortion are relate-able issues...:lol:
 
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The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.

creeper

That really says it all. Men who stick their noses into women's bodies in this manner are creepers.
 
The logical facts..

1) a human life begins at conception.

2) if Roe v Wade is overturned it reverts back to the each individual State's jurisdiction.

3) the odds of certain States (liberal utopias) outlawing abortion is nil, zero, not an F'ing chance.

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

The reality..

Democrats only use the issue as a political tool to scare women/men into voting Democrat.

creeper

That really says it all. Men who stick their noses into women's bodies in this manner are creepers.

...only if they disagree with her whorizontal position...:eusa_angel:
 
tinydancer

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

It is not a fetus. It is a baby,

I'd like you to just take one minute luddly. The child moves inside your body. So you're sitting there when your Lay's potato chips bag gets kicked across the living room.

And you go......whoa geeze. It's a baby that just kicked that Lay's potato chip bag across the room.

I don't want to be an idiot here and if you have ever seen me in battles with my side, you would understand me better on this issue.

And my heart breaks. They are babies. They are not a fetus. Truth out. It's a baby.

If it is a baby, then is a seed a tree?

I live with a U of T biology grad aka a scientist. He torments vegetarians (including my eldest although after she had Harley she started to eat some meat ) with tales of ripping a tomato off of a mother plant.

By the time he's done you don't want to eat anything again in your life.Trust me. And never never ever ask about honey.

U of T is University of Toronto for those that won't know the code.
 
tinydancer

She also had the RIGHT to abort her fetus. She had the absolute RIGHT to CHOOSE.

THAT is the law but its also the right of every human being to have complete control over their own body.

I don't know the answer to this. I'm only talking to you as a woman who has born three children.

I was told I couldn't bear any children after a really big deal over my appendix.

When I found out I was pregnant with Tanya. Let the world explode in the riot of her. Then comes Ryan then there comes Danielle.

Children are a blessing.

I am not a fool. I know sometimes this cannot be the way.

What do we do? But I'd like all of us one day to be able to talk about it. And really talk.
We can Tiny... Well... Some of us can. We likely won't agree... But we can talk. I hear what you are saying. I even agree with you for ME. It actually piss's me off to no end that I have no choice in the abortion, but I'm certainly responsible if it's born. And it's not that I don't want the responsibility... It's that damnit... I'm either responsible or I'm not.

My choice is already made before the scenario even comes up... I want it. But if I didn't want it... Just like she has a choice in having it... I want the choice that I don't. **I** won't ever make that choice. But it should be there.

Now... Just because Pro-Life works in my favor no matter what... Means that it's suddenly the only good way to go for everybody? It's good for ME. But for all my faults and vanity... And yes... I admit I'm pretty damn vain... I'm not arrogant enough to logically say that it's right for everyone.

Now... I don't think we'll ever agree... But I certainly respect your stance and willingness to talk Tiny. Good on you.

I just read an article at the Daily Mail where a mother beat her daughter so badly and actually glued her baby's hands to a wall that the attending Doctor (when this reached court) cried on the stand.

I'm on the mighty Q here so I hope I am making sense.:eusa_angel:

So then I have to go why didn't we give this woman free birth control?

Why did we ever let this woman have a child? This issue is not a matter of black and white; there are too many shades of grey.

I know I don't have the answers. But if one just closes the door and slams it shut, we won't move forward. And too many politicians and activists want to do that.
 
The logical facts..

.....

4) The odds of back alley abortions, coat hanger abortions, whatever, is no greater with or without Roe v Wade

Were you born slow?

In a perfect world, prenatal tests would have identified your mental issues.
 
forcing women to bear unwanted children will never work....too bad the humanity of gops doesnt go beyond birth

strolling bones I'm not a hardliner and I've been more left than most on this board.

I'm tired of the bullshit. the right doesn't want to kill children and the left doesn't want to kill children.

I'm really tired of cliches. No accent grave on my keyboard. Sorries.

But I really would like to see is a true discussion of what we are dealing with when we talk abortion.

You are a big animal person correct? I bred catahoulas.

When I first realized that Ruby Starr (my foundation bitch) was pregnant I could feel all those little babies moving in her body.

I never thought for one moment that what I was feeling was multiple fetuses. Is there a plural here? And it was amazing.

I could feel the babies.

Unless we all get down to business and actually start discussing what it means to terminate a life, we won't get anywhere.
 
I don't know the answer to this. I'm only talking to you as a woman who has born three children.

I was told I couldn't bear any children after a really big deal over my appendix.

When I found out I was pregnant with Tanya. Let the world explode in the riot of her. Then comes Ryan then there comes Danielle.

Children are a blessing.

I am not a fool. I know sometimes this cannot be the way.

What do we do? But I'd like all of us one day to be able to talk about it. And really talk.
We can Tiny... Well... Some of us can. We likely won't agree... But we can talk. I hear what you are saying. I even agree with you for ME. It actually piss's me off to no end that I have no choice in the abortion, but I'm certainly responsible if it's born. And it's not that I don't want the responsibility... It's that damnit... I'm either responsible or I'm not.

My choice is already made before the scenario even comes up... I want it. But if I didn't want it... Just like she has a choice in having it... I want the choice that I don't. **I** won't ever make that choice. But it should be there.

Now... Just because Pro-Life works in my favor no matter what... Means that it's suddenly the only good way to go for everybody? It's good for ME. But for all my faults and vanity... And yes... I admit I'm pretty damn vain... I'm not arrogant enough to logically say that it's right for everyone.

Now... I don't think we'll ever agree... But I certainly respect your stance and willingness to talk Tiny. Good on you.

I just read an article at the Daily Mail where a mother beat her daughter so badly and actually glued her baby's hands to a wall that the attending Doctor (when this reached court) cried on the stand.

I'm on the mighty Q here so I hope I am making sense.:eusa_angel:

So then I have to go why didn't we give this woman free birth control?

Why did we ever let this woman have a child? This issue is not a matter of black and white; there are too many shades of grey.

I know I don't have the answers. But if one just closes the door and slams it shut, we won't move forward. And too many politicians and activists want to do that.

From an earlier post of yours,

Children are a blessing.

What about when they're not?
 

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