Abortion and birth control: Crazy sexy stupid

[asterism]

Every time a teen who has taken an oath or pledge to practice abstinence only has sex, abstinence only fails.

That is not true. Most, yes. Every? No.

This "abstinence only works 100% of the time" is a bunch of hooey from people trying to delude themselves.

But it does work 100% of the time and therefore needs to be presented as a valid option alongside other less safe options.

If a teenager takes a vow not to have sex and they go ahead and have sex anyway, then the policy failed. There is no in between.

I am fine with it being presented as an option. I'm not fine with it being put forward as the "only" way to go.

So.... why are we arguing again?

 

[Article 15]

Not many, which is why the alternatives need to be described as dangerous not "safe."

No form of BC is 100% effective nor can any guarantee you wont get an STD. I am fine with teaching our youth the risks involved with the various forms of contraceptives, in fact I think that is paramount to their education.

What I have a problem with is the finger in the ears "LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" policy of abstinence only.

Well good, so now we've established you aren't talking to one of "those."

Now as a matter of public policy, do you think it's harmful for *any* government employee to ever tell a minor that there is even a concept called "safe sex?"

No, I don't think it is harmful because practicing "safe" sex is a helluva lot more "safe" than diving in raw. Maybe "safer" is a better word but safe still applies, IMO.

 

[Article 15]

That is not true. Most, yes. Every? No.



But it does work 100% of the time and therefore needs to be presented as a valid option alongside other less safe options.

If a teenager takes a vow not to have sex and they go ahead and have sex anyway, then the policy failed. There is no in between.

I am fine with it being presented as an option. I'm not fine with it being put forward as the "only" way to go.

So.... why are we arguing again?

lol ... I dunno.

 

[asterism]

No form of BC is 100% effective nor can any guarantee you wont get an STD. I am fine with teaching our youth the risks involved with the various forms of contraceptives, in fact I think that is paramount to their education.

What I have a problem with is the finger in the ears "LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" policy of abstinence only.

Well good, so now we've established you aren't talking to one of "those."

Now as a matter of public policy, do you think it's harmful for *any* government employee to ever tell a minor that there is even a concept called "safe sex?"

No, I don't think it is harmful because practicing "safe" sex is a helluva lot more "safe" than diving in raw. Maybe "safer" is a better word but safe still applies, IMO.

I disagree, sex is only "safe" in lifelong monogamous partnerships. "Not as dangerous" is sex with multiple partners using contraception, and then the concept of risk needs to be discussed. If a policy causes more people to have sex because they think it is "safe" and STDs rise as a result is that an effective policy? I don't think so.

 

[elvis]

In the heat of the moment.....

 

[asterism]

If a teenager takes a vow not to have sex and they go ahead and have sex anyway, then the policy failed. There is no in between.

I am fine with it being presented as an option. I'm not fine with it being put forward as the "only" way to go.

So.... why are we arguing again?

lol ... I dunno.

Stereotypes are hard to break sometimes. Some people are confused when they encounter a religious conservative who thinks abstinence is best for teens and thinks the government programs in this area are horrendously inadequate and flawed - but still puts condoms in their nieces' and nephews' cars.

Oh and I don't buy the anti-birth control mantra from Pope either. I understand the position and the very slow means the Roman Catholic Church has for any change, but it's outdated, inaccurate, and actually causes more harm then good.

How in the world anyone thought it would be a good idea to make using a condom as much of a sin as pre-marital sex is beyond me and the Church is culpable for all the damage that has resulted from that bit of "morality."

 

[Article 15]

Well good, so now we've established you aren't talking to one of "those."

Now as a matter of public policy, do you think it's harmful for *any* government employee to ever tell a minor that there is even a concept called "safe sex?"

No, I don't think it is harmful because practicing "safe" sex is a helluva lot more "safe" than diving in raw. Maybe "safer" is a better word but safe still applies, IMO.

I disagree, sex is only "safe" in lifelong monogamous partnerships. "Not as dangerous" is sex with multiple partners using contraception, and then the concept of risk needs to be discussed. If a policy causes more people to have sex because they think it is "safe" and STDs rise as a result is that an effective policy? I don't think so.

People who think they are in a lifelong monogamous relationship learn their significant other is cheating on them every day. There is no 100%.

I believe people are going to have sex anyway (as you can see based on my view of abstinence only) and that teaching them safe sex practices is our best shot at preventing STDs, teen pregnancy , etc.

What would you propose to call it? Less risky? I mean, really, it's just semantics.

 

[High_Gravity]

No, I don't think it is harmful because practicing "safe" sex is a helluva lot more "safe" than diving in raw. Maybe "safer" is a better word but safe still applies, IMO.

I disagree, sex is only "safe" in lifelong monogamous partnerships. "Not as dangerous" is sex with multiple partners using contraception, and then the concept of risk needs to be discussed. If a policy causes more people to have sex because they think it is "safe" and STDs rise as a result is that an effective policy? I don't think so.

People who think they are in a lifelong monogamous relationship learn their significant other is cheating on them every day. There is no 100%.

I believe people are going to have sex anyway (as you can see based on my view of abstinence only) and that teaching them safe sex practices is our best shot at preventing STDs, teen pregnancy , etc.
What would you propose to call it? Less risky? I mean, really, it's just semantics.

 

[Article 15]

In the heat of the moment.....

For real.

I've been there ... fooling around with a girl all kinds of hot and heavy ... someone says "we shouldn't do this" and two minutes later it's bow chicka wow wow.

Funny how that happens.

 

[High_Gravity]

That is not true. Most, yes. Every? No.



But it does work 100% of the time and therefore needs to be presented as a valid option alongside other less safe options.

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[High_Gravity]

So now I am a racist and a bigot because I think abstinance as a policy is a joke?

 

[High_Gravity]

In the heat of the moment.....

For real.

I've been there ... fooling around with a girl all kinds of hot and heavy ... someone says "we shouldn't do this" and two minutes later it's bow chicka wow wow.

Funny how that happens.

Exactly my man, the nerds that don't understand must have never touched a girl until they were 36.

 

[L.K.Eder]

That is not true. Most, yes. Every? No.



But it does work 100% of the time and therefore needs to be presented as a valid option alongside other less safe options.

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

race card

 

[High_Gravity]

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

race card

I never said anything about a certain race, if anything hes just upset because abstinance as a policy is a huge joke.

 

[jillian]

That is not true. Most, yes. Every? No.



But it does work 100% of the time and therefore needs to be presented as a valid option alongside other less safe options.

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

he wasn't referring to white people. he was referring to christian conservatives who want to pretend that teens don't have sex and refuse to address the subject realistically. so i'm wondering why you'd raise the race issue.

 

[High_Gravity]

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

he wasn't referring to white people. he was referring to christian conservatives who want to pretend that teens don't have sex and refuse to address the subject realistically. so i'm wondering why you'd raise the race issue.

EXACTLY! God damn I have been called a racist and a bigot in this thread but I have not said one hateful word towards any race or religion, if anything this clown is the bigot if hes bringing up racial garbage.

 

[jillian]

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

he wasn't referring to white people. he was referring to christian conservatives who want to pretend that teens don't have sex and refuse to address the subject realistically. so i'm wondering why you'd raise the race issue.

EXACTLY! God damn I have been called a racist and a bigot in this thread but I have not said one hateful word towards any race or religion, if anything this clown is the bigot if hes bringing up racial garbage.

well, i'm hoping he just misunderstood.

 

[High_Gravity]

he wasn't referring to white people. he was referring to christian conservatives who want to pretend that teens don't have sex and refuse to address the subject realistically. so i'm wondering why you'd raise the race issue.

EXACTLY! God damn I have been called a racist and a bigot in this thread but I have not said one hateful word towards any race or religion, if anything this clown is the bigot if hes bringing up racial garbage.

well, i'm hoping he just misunderstood.

I don't know, according to people here anyone who doesn't think abstinance as a program is realistic is a hateful bigot.

 

[asterism]

No, I don't think it is harmful because practicing "safe" sex is a helluva lot more "safe" than diving in raw. Maybe "safer" is a better word but safe still applies, IMO.

I disagree, sex is only "safe" in lifelong monogamous partnerships. "Not as dangerous" is sex with multiple partners using contraception, and then the concept of risk needs to be discussed. If a policy causes more people to have sex because they think it is "safe" and STDs rise as a result is that an effective policy? I don't think so.

People who think they are in a lifelong monogamous relationship learn their significant other is cheating on them every day. There is no 100%.

I agree.

I believe people are going to have sex anyway (as you can see based on my view of abstinence only) and that teaching them safe sex practices is our best shot at preventing STDs, teen pregnancy , etc.

I disagree. Teaching them options that make it less dangerous is our best shot at reducing STDs and teen pregnancy. Assuming they are going to do it anyway is a far cry from tacitly endorsing the activity. Pre-marital sex in teens is up since these "safe sex" programs started (link) and it has put more people at an undue risk for STDs and unwanted pregnancy.

What would you propose to call it? Less risky? I mean, really, it's just semantics.

What you call semantics I call proper description. Like I said, I tell the young ones for which I have responsibility not to do it, that it's dangerous (emotional and physical) but then I put condoms in their cars, wallets, and purses. My siblings will do that for my kids too, so that there is no endorsement or encouragement.

I asked a social worker my senior year in high school how effective condoms were at stopping gonorrhea. She said "100%." Then when I presented situations where they were not effective such as non-latex condoms, old condoms, condoms that were in damaged packages, she said "oh well, that's different." Bullshit it's "different!" It's a huge risk factor that was never presented! I still have never seen a single public school presentation that tells students to check the package and check the expiration date. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying they don't exist enough and that should be front and center.

Convincing kids that casual sex is okay and calling it "safe" if they use a condom is causing more harm than good.

 

[asterism]

Jesus Christ, nobody is saying abstinence doesn't work, of course not having sex avoids teen pregnancies and STD's, no one is denying that. The thing is, convincing teenagers not to have sex has been a failure, how come you people can't see that?

Us "people?"

Jeez!

Clean your own fucking house then, bigot.

HIV/AIDS and African Americans | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

What the fuck are you talking about?

So now I am a racist and a bigot because I think abstinance as a policy is a joke?

I never said racist and I don't know that you are.

No, you're a bigot for your derisive view on people who think abstinence only is a valid option, and the way you incorrectly addressed me.