Abolish the 16th Amendment and return power to the people

[Tech_Esq]

What in the hell are you talking about? Who said abolish government? That's just stupid.

The underlying assumption here is some people good - government bad. When you do not support government and seek to enfeeble it, you can call it whatever nonsense floats your boat, but it is still wrong. In this case, simply a matter of bad losers, who not once in the past eight and even longer years mentioned the same BS as government supported corporations and war and waste. You guys are so hypocritical I wonder how it is you trust yourself. And the likes of Beck et al are really the anti Americans as they seek in their bitterness to destroy Obama and their imagined evil government.

"Thomas Jefferson pointed out, in an 1816 letter to William H. Crawford, "Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association." He also pointed out in that letter that some people - and businesses - would prefer that government not play referee to the game of business, not fix rules that protect labor or provide for the protection of the commons and the public good.

We must, Jefferson wrote to Crawford, "...say to all [such] individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens [like corporations], on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.""

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

I think you are taking as absolutes what people are mentioning as directions. For instance, I'm talking simply about government that operates within its Constitutionally stated limits. That is hardly and "enfeebled" government, just the one that the founders envisioned (or closer to it than it is now). There have been a few wrongly decided decisions that have allowed the government to go beyond its limits and most of us on the right want them re-examined and overturned. That's pretty much it. Hardly some radical proposal for no-government. Hardly being anti-government. It is only pro-limited government.

 

[sealybobo]

What in the hell are you talking about? Who said abolish government? That's just stupid.

The underlying assumption here is some people good - government bad. When you do not support government and seek to enfeeble it, you can call it whatever nonsense floats your boat, but it is still wrong. In this case, simply a matter of bad losers, who not once in the past eight and even longer years mentioned the same BS as government supported corporations and war and waste. You guys are so hypocritical I wonder how it is you trust yourself. And the likes of Beck et al are really the anti Americans as they seek in their bitterness to destroy Obama and their imagined evil government.

"Thomas Jefferson pointed out, in an 1816 letter to William H. Crawford, "Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association." He also pointed out in that letter that some people - and businesses - would prefer that government not play referee to the game of business, not fix rules that protect labor or provide for the protection of the commons and the public good.

We must, Jefferson wrote to Crawford, "...say to all [such] individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens [like corporations], on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.""

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Ha! I love it! Finally someone else is quoting from Thom Hartmann's Op Ed's in Common Dreams!!!!

You are the best Editec. I know I'm crazy but I'm a hell of a lot smarter than any of these turkeys that are corporate defenders. Either they are stupid or they benefit from it. So they must be like my brother, who is a VP. Of course he's going to be a corporate sellout. But the funny thing is, he still get it! He hasn't lost all his liberal sensibilities. He just now sees things from the corporate side of things now too.

So instead of being an intellectually dishonest fuck who pretends there is nothign wrong with NAFTA, he's actually has some "meet you in the middle" ideas for bringing jobs home. He's a realist. You can't bring them all home, but you can bring some of them home. Enough to secure a strong middle class at least.

And while he knows unions suck, he also knows why they are important.

And he's pro affirmative action, even though he admits those days are over. That doesn't mean he doesn't understand the justification for having such a policy.

And no one is pro taxing corporations too much. But Republicans will lie and say that we are taxing them too much. Anyone buying it? Not me. But they scare people by saying if we don't cut the rich people's taxes, they'll lay us off and it'll increase the cost of their products. I'm so sick of that argument.

Anyways, think long and hard about the differences between the parties. Here in Michigan, we've been voting for Democrats lately because we see that it is the Republicans who are helping corporations send jobs overseas.

And look down south. It is the Republicans in red states who are trying to kill the Big 3 for Toyota and Honda.

I see a huge difference between the two parties.

I've been thinking long and hard about the differences. I just have to look to see how my politicians vote to know that they are night and day. Levin and Stabinow are great Democrats. In retrospect, did Clinton sell out? Yes. But that doesn't mean we should put the GOP in charge. Do you think things would be the same today if McCain would have won? No way. It would have been FULL STEAM AHEAD on aborting the American Middle Class as we know it.

I don't think you realize how important this election was. Or how damage the GOP did the last 8 years. And for them to try to say the Dems were involved. Boy, wouldn't they love to get you all to believe that before the 2010 midterms.

 

[NOBama]

What in the hell are you talking about? Who said abolish government? That's just stupid.

The underlying assumption here is some people good - government bad. When you do not support government and seek to enfeeble it, you can call it whatever nonsense floats your boat, but it is still wrong. In this case, simply a matter of bad losers, who not once in the past eight and even longer years mentioned the same BS as government supported corporations and war and waste. You guys are so hypocritical I wonder how it is you trust yourself. And the likes of Beck et al are really the anti Americans as they seek in their bitterness to destroy Obama and their imagined evil government.

"Thomas Jefferson pointed out, in an 1816 letter to William H. Crawford, "Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association." He also pointed out in that letter that some people - and businesses - would prefer that government not play referee to the game of business, not fix rules that protect labor or provide for the protection of the commons and the public good.

We must, Jefferson wrote to Crawford, "...say to all [such] individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens [like corporations], on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.""

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Jefferson also said:

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty

and

All tyranny needs to gain foothold is for the people of good concience to remain silent.

I think Napolatono was right when he said:

If citizens want to take back control of an out of control federal government and make government fear the people, we must take the source of their power: money.

What better time than now, given that we have a guy in the White House that wants to "remake America", for the people to reverse government run amuck, which we've allowed? None, IMO.

While it may be okay with some people that we put an unknown intity in the White House who has a grand plan to "remake America", it's not with others, like me.

I think Jefferson also had it right when he said:

Experience hath shown, that even under the best form of government those entrusted with power, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Finally, if McCain had gotten elected and did the same things BO has don (which I believe he would have), I think we'd be seeing the same level (or higher) of rebellion against the government.

Your bad losers argument is BS, IMO.

 

[sealybobo]

This demonizing of government is such nonsense who would really want the chaos that would ensue? The same people complain that government does not do enough when roads are bad, bridges fall down, forests are destroyed by fire. Imagine no police or no overriding authority? What hokum! Law is what keeps us a civilized nation and government is the only authority that can do that.


"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts."

Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech

It is not the government that is the problem but rather those who govern. Our leaders are corrupted by the system. Who can blame them? But, it is a fact that the system we have in place to day is corrupting the good hearted people that enter politics. It starts small, but if you are going to play the game in a way that will get you into Washington, you have to sell your soul a thousand times over.

I would never call for the abolishment of our government, but the power of those who govern needs to be curtailed in order to save this country.

Immie

What do you want the government to be powerless against? Corporate pollution? Globalization? Illegal employers? Labor Laws?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

For those worried about funding the government, the income tax would not be necessary for a government that actually followed the Constitution.

 

[sealybobo]

What in the hell are you talking about? Who said abolish government? That's just stupid.

The underlying assumption here is some people good - government bad. When you do not support government and seek to enfeeble it, you can call it whatever nonsense floats your boat, but it is still wrong. In this case, simply a matter of bad losers, who not once in the past eight and even longer years mentioned the same BS as government supported corporations and war and waste. You guys are so hypocritical I wonder how it is you trust yourself. And the likes of Beck et al are really the anti Americans as they seek in their bitterness to destroy Obama and their imagined evil government.

"Thomas Jefferson pointed out, in an 1816 letter to William H. Crawford, "Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association." He also pointed out in that letter that some people - and businesses - would prefer that government not play referee to the game of business, not fix rules that protect labor or provide for the protection of the commons and the public good.

We must, Jefferson wrote to Crawford, "...say to all [such] individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens [like corporations], on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.""

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Jefferson also said:

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty

and

All tyranny needs to gain foothold is for the people of good concience to remain silent.

I think Napolatono was right when he said:

If citizens want to take back control of an out of control federal government and make government fear the people, we must take the source of their power: money.

What better time than now, given that we have a guy in the White House that wants to "remake America", for the people to reverse government run amuck, which we've allowed? None, IMO.

While it may be okay with some people that we put an unknown intity in the White House who has a grand plan to "remake America", it's not with others, like me.

I think Jefferson also had it right when he said:

Experience hath shown, that even under the best form of government those entrusted with power, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Finally, if McCain had gotten elected and did the same things BO has don (which I believe he would have), I think we'd be seeing the same level (or higher) of rebellion against the government.

Your bad losers argument is BS, IMO.

Where were these people when the GOP were breaking pork records in 2005, 06 and 07? No, those people kept their heads buried when it was DEFENSE waste. I know, because I was like you. I was screaming and it was people like you who were not listening.

And I love how you ignore what we are showing you that Jefferson said and instead you keep pointing to his warnings about government.

You fail to realize that everything wrong with government, always ends up being something that has to do with their being in bed with corporations. Who gave that Jefferson guy the $100K that was in his freezor? Who was doing favors for Ted Stevens? And don't act like he was innocent. They're all guilty, remember? So why was that contruction company doing Ted Stevens favors? Exactly! To do their bidding instead of the citizens of Alaska. And that bridge to knowhere. That was probably a big contract for some corporation.

And who was helping the government spy on us? The TELECOM's!!!

And Motorola, Haloburton, Hunt Oil, Blackwater. The GOP privatized all the profits and socialized the losses. That's worse than socialism. Do you realize that? At least with socialism the government gets some of the profits.

Don't get me started. Lehman Brothers, UBS, all the banks that collapsed, Countrywide, Meryl Lynch, ING, AIG, whatever. HOLY FUCK, I almost forgot ENRON.

And look at all the companies that went bankrupt in America. Was that because of the politicians or the corporations? Wallstreet/bankers or was it Congress that caused all those companies to go bust. And why did they go bust? Because people don't have jobs, because they went overseas.

OMG, just look at the last 8 years.

 

[sealybobo]

For those worried about funding the government, the income tax would not be necessary for a government that actually followed the Constitution.

Amen! Only I might enterpret what they are constitutionally obligated to do differently than you do.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You will find that Republicans like to quote the Founding Fathers when they were warning us about government, but then they want to ignore when they warned us about Corporations/Bankers/Robber Barons/Oligarchi's,/Fascism, Feudalism, etc.

Not sure what you'll hear from "Republicans" but striking the balance is the key. It isn't that people on the right are not aware of the dangers posed by out of control corporations or other forms of tyranny, but advocates for more government are a more pressing threat, than the others. Make no mistake, people on the right should not be apologists for corporate misdeeds. If a corporation acts poorly, it should be punished within the stated rules and laws that govern it. However, runaway government is not the answer.

First off, I don't know who's crying for more government. Bush neglected America for 8 years and still grew the government thru things like FISA, FEMA and Dept of Homeland Security. You didn't complain then? Why? Because chances are you didn't want to seem unpatriotic or weak on terror, because Bush grew government in the name of defense. That's how he kept you conservatives and independents quiet.

Now that its Dems in control, the GOP will cry for smaller government. Thats because the corporate lobbyists want less regulations. They pay the GOP to fight for less regulations, IE "Smaller Government"

I believe if you are not a Republican, then you are a libertarian or independent who leans right.

Anyways, now you aren't going to like the programs that Obama is going to implement. And there lies the difference between conservatives and liberals. I want the government involved in jobs, poverty, protecting workers, welfare, nafta, etc. And I believe the masses are with Obama too. If it works, we won't give a shit if government grew or shrunk. If I'm working and saving and buying things. PS. Remember Cheney said "deficits don't matter"? We told you they do. They especially do if you just go and blow the money. The gop just blew all the money they spent the last 8 years. Need proof? Just look at the economy. I shouldn't have to prove the GOP caused this mess. The election speaks for me.

So now 100 days in, you gotta give Obama a chance. He's doing as much as he can, and doing a fine job too.

But you want him to bring jobs home? Then tell him.

You want the government to abolish the Federal Reserve? Tell them. Sign Ron Paul's petition!!!!

But to say the government is the key problem, is EXACTLY what the bankers would want you to believe. Are you a banker? Because they would like to throw us off by first having us go after the government. GOOD LUCK. Once you have completely reformed the government, then we'll talk about the bankers. Fucking morons. Not just you, but most people.

I don't want them to grow the government, but that might be what it takes to tackle some of these issues. They need to appoint someone to oversee tarp funds, for example. You'll call that growing government.

Bush created a bunch of spy czars and torture czars.

Did Clinton grow government?

Anyways, I think that the most pressing issue is the corporations and their strangle hold on our government. All the lobbyists. Republicans didn't decide they want NAFTA, they want to send jobs overseas/they want to break unions/they want to cut corporate taxes. They didn't do that on their own. They did that because thats what the lobbyists told them to do.

And if you want to talk about big government, the GOP grew government too, only in the name of defense. And most right wingers didn't have a problem with it. And they didn't mind funding the iraq war, even though Cheney promised that Iraq oil would pay. But Iraq oil goes to the oil companies. And the American tax payers pay for reconstruction, Haloburton and Iraq.

Now doesn't it seem stupid that we put an oil man (Bush) and Cheney (Defense) in charge of the country?

What, government so small it can't take on the bankers?

I hate it when you start to rant. When you finally got around to the what I said, you misquoted me and misrepresented what I said. I didn't say that government was "key problem." I said that striking a balance is key. The balance is between an over-reaching government (tyrannical) and an uncontrolled corporatist state also tyrannical.

 

[Jon]

Ever hear of PayGo? If you want a bridge, you levy a tax for that bridge. And when the bridge is built, that tax is over/finished!

The problem with PayGo is its instability. Because there are ALWAYS projects in the works, there will ALWAYS be taxes under PayGo. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the amount of taxes will fluctuate. People and businesses will be unable to plan their budgets because they won't know what taxes will be a year or even a month down the road. Ever hear the saying, "An old tax is a good tax?" I can't imagine a better application for that saying than PayGo. There would be mass confusion under a PayGo system, even more so than the current tax system causes.

 

[Jon]

What do you want the government to be powerless against? Corporate pollution? Globalization? Illegal employers? Labor Laws?

The government should be powerless against the people. Instead, we have a people that are powerless against the government.

 

[Immanuel]

What do you want the government to be powerless against? Corporate pollution? Globalization? Illegal employers? Labor Laws?

Who said anything about the government being powerless?

The problem is that the career politicians go to Washington, rake in the lobbyist money and support, drop their drawers and let the people with the money have their way with them. What I simply am sick and tired of is politicians who find their way to Washington to become so entrenched in their positions that after they drop their drawers for the corporations that run this country, they demand that we drop our drawers for the politicians.

Immie

 

[sealybobo]

This demonizing of government is such nonsense who would really want the chaos that would ensue? The same people complain that government does not do enough when roads are bad, bridges fall down, forests are destroyed by fire. Imagine no police or no overriding authority? What hokum! Law is what keeps us a civilized nation and government is the only authority that can do that.


"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts."

Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech

It is not the government that is the problem but rather those who govern. Our leaders are corrupted by the system. Who can blame them? But, it is a fact that the system we have in place to day is corrupting the good hearted people that enter politics. It starts small, but if you are going to play the game in a way that will get you into Washington, you have to sell your soul a thousand times over.

I would never call for the abolishment of our government, but the power of those who govern needs to be curtailed in order to save this country.

Immie

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

 

[Tech_Esq]

This demonizing of government is such nonsense who would really want the chaos that would ensue? The same people complain that government does not do enough when roads are bad, bridges fall down, forests are destroyed by fire. Imagine no police or no overriding authority? What hokum! Law is what keeps us a civilized nation and government is the only authority that can do that.


"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts."

Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech

It is not the government that is the problem but rather those who govern. Our leaders are corrupted by the system. Who can blame them? But, it is a fact that the system we have in place to day is corrupting the good hearted people that enter politics. It starts small, but if you are going to play the game in a way that will get you into Washington, you have to sell your soul a thousand times over.

I would never call for the abolishment of our government, but the power of those who govern needs to be curtailed in order to save this country.

Immie

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

As long as they only pass laws according to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, after the Wicker decision, they haven't been so limited.

 

[Immanuel]

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

Explain to me how a government filled with people who cannot hold the same position for say more than 12 years would not be able to pass laws.

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

Senator Martinez is as corrupt as they come. Senator Nelson is a Democrat. My representative is Adam Putnam, a Republican. A decent young fellow if you ask me, but one who should not be allowed to make a permanent residence in Washington.

As to why the people of the State of Florida keep electing them, well, once in office, it is very difficult to unseat an incumbent. Just like every other state, we want more powerful elected official, you know those who get the powerful committee seats. That would not be an issue with term limits.

Immie

 

[sealybobo]

It is not the government that is the problem but rather those who govern. Our leaders are corrupted by the system. Who can blame them? But, it is a fact that the system we have in place to day is corrupting the good hearted people that enter politics. It starts small, but if you are going to play the game in a way that will get you into Washington, you have to sell your soul a thousand times over.

I would never call for the abolishment of our government, but the power of those who govern needs to be curtailed in order to save this country.

Immie

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

As long as they only pass laws according to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, after the Wicker decision, they haven't been so limited.

Maybe you will answer me too. A lot of you think that all politicians are scum and corrupt. And they are all the same. Doesn't matter which party.

Well I'm asking people if they can tell me who their corrupt Senators and Congressmen are. And why do the people in your state keep electing them?

 

[sealybobo]

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

Explain to me how a government filled with people who cannot hold the same position for say more than 12 years would not be able to pass laws.

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

Senator Martinez is as corrupt as they come. Senator Nelson is a Democrat. My representative is Adam Putnam, a Republican. A decent young fellow if you ask me, but one who should not be allowed to make a permanent residence in Washington.

As to why the people of the State of Florida keep electing them, well, once in office, it is very difficult to unseat an incumbent. Just like every other state, we want more powerful elected official, you know those who get the powerful committee seats. That would not be an issue with term limits.

Immie

Sen Martinez must be looking out for the hispanic vote. So he's allowing illegals in and that also makes the corporations happy and the rich people in florida don't care.

Yea, I can see how thats a toughy.

 

[Tech_Esq]

1. They have the power to pass laws. Do you want to take that power away from them?

2. Please tell us which Republicans in your home state are currupt and also, why do the people in your state continue to vote for them?

As long as they only pass laws according to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, after the Wicker decision, they haven't been so limited.

Maybe you will answer me too. A lot of you think that all politicians are scum and corrupt. And they are all the same. Doesn't matter which party.

Well I'm asking people if they can tell me who their corrupt Senators and Congressmen are. And why do the people in your state keep electing them?

I didn't answer that part because I figured you didn't want me to beat on Dems.

Our RINO senator John Warner retired so no we have Mark Warner. Same coin different side, unrelated. Melon-head Webb and my new Rep. (Tom Davis having retired), Conolly. I can only hope that the same thing happens to him that happened to the only other Dem that represented my district. One term and out!

But, we'll see whether we elect a Repub or a Dem in November for governor. That will provide a clue as to what will happen next year.

 

[sealybobo]

As long as they only pass laws according to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, after the Wicker decision, they haven't been so limited.

Maybe you will answer me too. A lot of you think that all politicians are scum and corrupt. And they are all the same. Doesn't matter which party.

Well I'm asking people if they can tell me who their corrupt Senators and Congressmen are. And why do the people in your state keep electing them?

I didn't answer that part because I figured you didn't want me to beat on Dems.

Our RINO senator John Warner retired so no we have Mark Warner. Same coin different side, unrelated. Melon-head Webb and my new Rep. (Tom Davis having retired), Conolly. I can only hope that the same thing happens to him that happened to the only other Dem that represented my district. One term and out!

But, we'll see whether we elect a Repub or a Dem in November for governor. That will provide a clue as to what will happen next year.

Just make sure you aren't voting back in the party that caused the mess, just because the other party wasn't quick enough to fix the mess.

People in Michigan wanted to blame Jennifer Granholm. They blamed her up until February 2008 when the GOP were campaigning in Michigan. Mitt Romney repeated the GOP lie that Michigan was in a one state recession.

At the time me and other liberals were SCREAMING about the upcoming economic collapse. You thought we were just playing politics in an election year, and the GOP was hoping that the collapse wouldn't happen until after the election. That's why McCain was sticking to his position that "the fundamentals of our economy were strong", all the way up until September 2008. Just 2 month before the election.

We were SCREAMING about jobs going overseas too. And we were screaming about GOP spending.

YOU folks, back then, were insisting that deficits don't matter, wages were up, we were winning the war, the surge worked, profits were up and the fundamentals of our economy were STRONG!!!

 

[Immanuel]

Sen Martinez must be looking out for the hispanic vote. So he's allowing illegals in and that also makes the corporations happy and the rich people in florida don't care.

Yea, I can see how thats a toughy.

Which is exactly why they should not be allowed to make a permanent camp in Washington. Special interests find their way into the pockets of these people and "we the people" get screwed.

Immie

 

[Tech_Esq]

Maybe you will answer me too. A lot of you think that all politicians are scum and corrupt. And they are all the same. Doesn't matter which party.

Well I'm asking people if they can tell me who their corrupt Senators and Congressmen are. And why do the people in your state keep electing them?

I didn't answer that part because I figured you didn't want me to beat on Dems.

Our RINO senator John Warner retired so no we have Mark Warner. Same coin different side, unrelated. Melon-head Webb and my new Rep. (Tom Davis having retired), Conolly. I can only hope that the same thing happens to him that happened to the only other Dem that represented my district. One term and out!

But, we'll see whether we elect a Repub or a Dem in November for governor. That will provide a clue as to what will happen next year.

Just make sure you aren't voting back in the party that caused the mess, just because the other party wasn't quick enough to fix the mess.

People in Michigan wanted to blame Jennifer Granholm. They blamed her up until February 2008 when the GOP were campaigning in Michigan. Mitt Romney repeated the GOP lie that Michigan was in a one state recession.

At the time me and other liberals were SCREAMING about the upcoming economic collapse. You thought we were just playing politics in an election year, and the GOP was hoping that the collapse wouldn't happen until after the election. That's why McCain was sticking to his position that "the fundamentals of our economy were strong", all the way up until September 2008. Just 2 month before the election.

We were SCREAMING about jobs going overseas too. And we were screaming about GOP spending.

YOU folks, back then, were insisting that deficits don't matter, wages were up, we were winning the war, the surge worked, profits were up and the fundamentals of our economy were STRONG!!!

I'm not worried about trivial problems like deficit spending and this or that policy like i used to be. I'm worried about more fundemental issues limited or unlimited government. I'm for limited government. I'll vote for the party in favor of limited government.