Originally posted by Toastman
The problem with this post is that 'Western Palestine' , doesn't exist.
No matter how hard you try to make it seem like Israel isn't there, Israel really IS there.
However, if you and the other rabid and hateful anti - Israelis choose to live in this fantasy world where 'Palestine' is located where Israel is, then that's your problem.
My invitation to join the rest of us in the world of reality still stands though
Toastman,
The idea you and Rocco are sponsoring here,according to which western Palestine stopped being part of the historical palestinian homeland due to the creation of an internationally recognised political entity is so ridiculous, so outrageous that I don’t really need to refute it.
By exposing it I’m already refuting it.
Stop for a moment and pay attention to the absurd, ridiculous, loony concept you and Rocco are proposing:
According to you, the territory upon which the state of Israel was created suddenly, magically ceased being the historical homeland of the palestinian people by virtue of the creation of the aforementioned state.
The stroke of pen by UN diplomats does not have the power to cancel the historical connection of any people to the territory they inhabited for centuries, toastman/Rocco.
The creation of a political entity, of a nation state anywhere on Earth does not eliminate the right of any ethnic group with a historical presence on that region to rightly consider it part of their homeland.
Israel’s creation could never “cancel” this historical reality even if it was created by the decendents of the ancient semitic people who inhabited that region a couple of millenia ago let alone a bunch of eastern europeans with no genetic link to that ancient people. (read my aside below, please).
Historical homelands are a result of History, of the passage of time, of a continued presence of a people on a piece of land and the founding of a new political entity does not change their nature in any way.
If the fact that the state of Israel sits on top of the historical homeland of the palestinian people bothers you and Rocco so much there is only one way to change this reality:
Build a time machine, go back in time 1400 years, prevent the arabs from settling and living there for centuries as well as assimilating the peoples of the region, come back to 2013 and then you’ll be able to deal a mortal blow on my argument pointing to the absolute absence of a continued arab presence in the region.
Both Israel and South Africa (under the name of African Union) were created in 1948. Both states were fully recognized by the international community, members of the UN, etc... I’m pointing out South Africa’s international legitimacy because Rocco has a strange obsession with international legalism as if international recognition could legitimize an ethnocratic state racist to the bone.
From 48 to 94 millions of Zulus, Xhosas and other minority ethnic groups were prevented from leaving or “transfered to Ciskei, Transkei etc... and live in South Africa just like millions of palestinians have been prevented from entering the western half of their homeland from 48 to today.
Israel’s creation has absolutely no bearing on western Palestine’s status as the historical homeland of the arab people just like the creation of South Africa never invalidated that territory’s condition as the homeland of the several Bantu peoples who inhabited the region no matter how much international “legitimacy” the two racial dictatorships enjoyed in the past and still enjoy today.
65 years of Israel in western Palestine haven’t changed the status of the land as their homeland anymore than 40 years of South Africa on the Bantu homeland changed the status of the territory as the homeland of Zulus, Xhosas, etc.
Western Palestine as the homeland of the palestinian people is firmly grounded on centuries of continued inhabitance in that region. Only a psychological process of emotional detachment from the land can change this reality.
Example:
The mexican society, who albeit grudgingly, eventually came to terms with the fact that mexican northern provinces became the american southwest.
From the moment Mexicans accepted California, Texas, New Mexico as american states instead of mexican provinces taken by brute force those territories ceased from being part of the historical homeland of Mexicans, despite the historical presence of hispanics in the region, meaning:
Mexicans lost their right to live there, their right to consider it as part of mexican homeland, the moment they lost their will to fight for them and accepted american sovereignty over the land.
No founding of any Texan Republic could invalidate Texas as the homeland of Mexicans.
No victory on the battlefield in 36 or 48 could accomplish that feat.
No military occupation of Mexico, no strongarming to force Mexico to “sell” the land for peanuts could do it.
No “peace treaty” signed by Santa Anna or any other Mexican leader could do it either.
Only the resigned acceptance of US sovereignty over their former provinces on the part of the mexican society finally worked the “miracle” of nullifying California, Texas and New Mexico’s status as part of the mexican historical homeland.
The only thing that can invalidate western Palestine as the historic homeland of the palestinian people is a sociological/psychological process similar to the one that occurred in Mexico in the 19th century.
No founding of jewish states, no victory on the battlefield, no peace treaty signed by Abbas, Hamas or even Arafat can nullify Palestine as the historical homeland of palestinian arabs.
Only a sociological process of acceptance of Israel’s sovereignty over the land by the palestinian society similar to the one that happened in Mexico can do the trick.
The idea that the creation of a state somehow overrides the status of a given territory as the homeland of another ethnic group is a bizarre idea that has no validation in History, Political Science and Sociology alike.
Only God knows who shoved this stupidity into Rocco and toastman’s minds.
I’m pretty baffled by the total insanity of this “argument”.
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