A vision I fundamentally disagree with

[Immanuel]

I just did. He took two wars he didnt start off a credit card for future generations to pay and put them on HIS budgets.

Thats taking reponsibility.


And youre correct on the Peace prize, he sure as hell didnt do anything before or after he got the prize to deserve that honor.

Sorry, he did not take responsibility for the two wars. He did not take the blame for the wars. It can be debated that he did the responsible thing to bring one of those wars to a near end but he did not take responsibility for the wars.

Remember, everything is Bushes fault... everything, from the wars to the collapse in the economy to Obama's inability to improve the economy. It is all Bushes fault. If Bush didn't fart on January 1st 2004, there would not have been the earthquake that caused the earthquake on December 26th, 2004 that led to the tsunami in Indonesia.

Immie

Well they ARE!

Sheesh...all you have to do to prove it is look at the dates when these things began.

Two wars and a financial collapse all happened PRIOR to January 20th 2009.

Blaming Obama for two wars and the financial collapse is like trying to blame Richard Nixon for the Viet Nam war.

Look at a calendar, man.


You want to say that Obamas policies have EXTENDED this economic crisis. Fine. Ill debate that with you all day long. But to lay the BLAME for it all at his feet is just dishonest.

I have never laid all the blame at his feet. But, he takes no responsibility for any of the problems we are facing today... none. He has been piss poor at best and as I have said before Obamacare has cost the working people of this nation a hell of a lot of jobs... but remember that is all Bush's fault. BS Vidi.

At best his incompetency has extended the economic decline of this nation.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I refuse to believe the founding principals of our country involved abandoning people to misery or turning a cold shoulder on problems because it may be expensive to face them. I am sick of people using our founders as a lousy cop-out to only give shit about people who have wealth enough to buy influence. This is the vision many reject, not the good stuff that is becoming ever more imperiled such as a clean and fair election or the ideal of democracy itself.

Then you should choose Romney over Obama since Obama is the one that cut $700 billion from Medicare and Ryan is the one that wants to put it back.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Saturday, Paul Ryan stated the following as the vision that he and Mitt Romney share, along with the comments about the Ideal that America was founded on.



Today Obama replied with:



Obama wants to replace the ideals that this country was founded on, and replace them with more government, more handouts, less self reliance, etc. He cannot be more clear than that!

Obama has proven that he fundamentally disagrees with taking responsibility for anything. He's proven that for three and a half years. "It's all President Bush's fault!"

Immie

Except he took two wars off the credit card and put them both ON BUDGET and then gets accused of increasing the debt.

Obamas taking way more responsibility than youre willing to give him credit for and taking way more blame than he deserves.

I love the way people keep pretending that Bush managed to run two separate wars without paying for them until Obama got into office. It proves to me that some people are incapable of thinking for themselves, even when presented with facts that are impossible to reconcile with reality.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The fact that so many people think that only ONE of those statements can be true is whats wrong with politics today.

BOTH are true.

Prosperity IS shared. If I do well, I invest my money thus creating jobs and sharing that prosperity with others. Every dollar I spend on products or services shares that prosperity. Everyone has the opportunities but not everyone is in a position to take advantage of those opportunitties so outcomes vary.

Actually, the problem with politics is that some people think government can mandate prosperity.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The fact that so many people think that only ONE of those statements can be true is whats wrong with politics today.

BOTH are true.

Prosperity IS shared. If I do well, I invest my money thus creating jobs and sharing that prosperity with others. Every dollar I spend on products or services shares that prosperity. Everyone has the opportunities but not everyone is in a position to take advantage of those opportunitties so outcomes vary.

Not when mandated by Government.

Actually YES, when mandated by government.

What do you think the Constitution is? A Private industry document? Its a governmental document.

It amazes me that people can sing the praises of the Constitution whose first function was to form the government of the United States and then in the next breath those same people damn the very government it formed.

This is going to be fun.

The constitution tells me that congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. The government just made a law that abridges freedom of speech simply because people do not like what Westboro Baptist Church has to say,

The Constitution tells me that congress shall make no law that prohibits the free exercise of religion. The government tells me that it is illegal to practice a religion that includes polygamy.

I can go on for pages and pages with other examples of the government that you think the constitution formed ignoring that constitution when it is inconvenient. There is, quite literally, only one amendment that the government has not watered down so much that it no longer applies. The reality is that the constitution has as much to do with our government as the Old Testament has to do with modern Islam.

 

[Intense]

The fact that so many people think that only ONE of those statements can be true is whats wrong with politics today.

BOTH are true.

Prosperity IS shared. If I do well, I invest my money thus creating jobs and sharing that prosperity with others. Every dollar I spend on products or services shares that prosperity. Everyone has the opportunities but not everyone is in a position to take advantage of those opportunitties so outcomes vary.

Not when mandated by Government.

Actually YES, when mandated by government.

Not all mandates are good for prosperity, nor do all mandates serve justice.
You talk of the Constitution, The Constitution, is not only the Highest Law of the Land, it is a Document formed of Federalist Principles. We have strayed very far from the concept of Federalism over the Years. In that we lose many of the protections and fail safes, that were part of that design. We use the Amendment process and the Courts to make changes that effect the flow and balance of power, in some ways rightly, in some wrongly. Short cuts always have unanticipated costs.

It is not just having the power to act, but the ability to use it wisely that makes the difference. Show cause, method , means, and the checks and balances, that keep the support of the Governed behind it. That is my point. We as Individuals, have different abilities, which do more to create position than luck or entitlement. What we Each do with it is measured, 10 fold, 30 fold, or a 100 fold.

Does Government play a role in Prosperity, as much as it does in obstructing it, with bad policy. Each decision has both intended and unintended consequences. Rather than compound the damage, picking winners and losers with other peoples money, maybe Government needs to step back, and take a breath. We cannot afford to stay on the path we are on. That should be obvious to you. We can't bring in enough to support the spending habits of those beyond our control, no matter how much Taxes are increased.

Government can't Mandate Prosperity. Government can't mandate Providence. Intention, Purpose, Vision, overcoming obstacles, all start with the Individual.

 

[Old Rocks]

"My guy"?

I wouldn't give a shit if he was running against Howdy Doody. Obama is a curio to be relegated to the bottom shelf of a dusty bureau. Sort of like a lava lamp or a pet rock.

He's to be chalked up as an experiment gone very wrong.

Well, there really are only two choices. Rocky, Gary and the other also rans arent going to dethrone wither of the majors this time out...so if your expect to get Obama out, Romney is "your guy"

What I do or don't do in the voting booth is my business. I may write in a candidate of my choosing.
I've been around since the Eisenhower administration. And I have never, ever, been fearful of a nation leader as I am of Obama. He is a pariah, a menace, a destroyer, and a dismantler. And come November, he's history.

And I have been around since FDR. And find President Obama to be none of those things. Guess that is what makes an election.

 

[Old Rocks]

Not when mandated by Government.

Actually YES, when mandated by government.

Not all mandates are good for prosperity, nor do all mandates serve justice.
You talk of the Constitution, The Constitution, is not only the Highest Law of the Land, it is a Document formed of Federalist Principles. We have strayed very far from the concept of Federalism over the Years. In that we lose many of the protections and fail safes, that were part of that design. We use the Amendment process and the Courts to make changes that effect the flow and balance of power, in some ways rightly, in some wrongly. Short cuts always have unanticipated costs.

It is not just having the power to act, but the ability to use it wisely that makes the difference. Show cause, method , means, and the checks and balances, that keep the support of the Governed behind it. That is my point. We as Individuals, have different abilities, which do more to create position than luck or entitlement. What we Each do with it is measured, 10 fold, 30 fold, or a 100 fold.

Does Government play a role in Prosperity, as much as it does in obstructing it, with bad policy. Each decision has both intended and unintended consequences. Rather than compound the damage, picking winners and losers with other peoples money, maybe Government needs to step back, and take a breath. We cannot afford to stay on the path we are on. That should be obvious to you. We can't bring in enough to support the spending habits of those beyond our control, no matter how much Taxes are increased.

Government can't Mandate Prosperity. Government can't mandate Providence. Intention, Purpose, Vision, overcoming obstacles, all start with the Individual.

But government can mandate a recession. As did the GOP with their deregulation of the financial market. And you wish us to go down that path again, before we have had a chance to recover from the last time.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually YES, when mandated by government.

Not all mandates are good for prosperity, nor do all mandates serve justice.
You talk of the Constitution, The Constitution, is not only the Highest Law of the Land, it is a Document formed of Federalist Principles. We have strayed very far from the concept of Federalism over the Years. In that we lose many of the protections and fail safes, that were part of that design. We use the Amendment process and the Courts to make changes that effect the flow and balance of power, in some ways rightly, in some wrongly. Short cuts always have unanticipated costs.

It is not just having the power to act, but the ability to use it wisely that makes the difference. Show cause, method , means, and the checks and balances, that keep the support of the Governed behind it. That is my point. We as Individuals, have different abilities, which do more to create position than luck or entitlement. What we Each do with it is measured, 10 fold, 30 fold, or a 100 fold.

Does Government play a role in Prosperity, as much as it does in obstructing it, with bad policy. Each decision has both intended and unintended consequences. Rather than compound the damage, picking winners and losers with other peoples money, maybe Government needs to step back, and take a breath. We cannot afford to stay on the path we are on. That should be obvious to you. We can't bring in enough to support the spending habits of those beyond our control, no matter how much Taxes are increased.

Government can't Mandate Prosperity. Government can't mandate Providence. Intention, Purpose, Vision, overcoming obstacles, all start with the Individual.

But government can mandate a recession. As did the GOP with their deregulation of the financial market. And you wish us to go down that path again, before we have had a chance to recover from the last time.

The deregulation of the financial market, which actually didn't happen, which led to a massive boom, caused the rescission that was over more than 3 years ago.

 

[JDzBrain]

Then you should choose Romney over Obama since Obama is the one that cut $700 billion from Medicare and Ryan is the one that wants to put it back.

Exactly Wind. But I think Ryan just wants to take it back out of Obamacare! ;~)

I don't think Paul likes the fact that Obama took 700 billion out of Medicare to fund Obamacare so that when the CBO scored it, it would come in at under 1 trillion dollars, when Obama knew full well that Obamacare actually places 30 million MORE Americans on Medicare than before Obamacare and that not only would that 700 billion in NEW unfunded liability have to be replaced, but an ADDITIONAL 300 billion would have to be borrowed from the Chinese, bringing the grand total to a MINIMUM at the time of 1.9 TRILLION DOLLAR price tag.

He didn't like Obamanomics cooking the books! ;~)

Obama wants to replace the ideals that this country was founded on, and replace them with more government, more handouts, less self reliance, etc. He cannot be more clear than that!

Exactly Twofox. He says he want's to "return" us to shared prosperity. Just exactly when was that I wonder? I'm a pretty old guy and I don't seem to remember a time when my prosperity EVER depended on anyone else. I always had to go out and MAKE it happen. I DID build that...good AND bad!

Except he took two wars off the credit card and put them both ON BUDGET and then gets accused of increasing the debt.

Obamas taking way more responsibility than youre willing to give him credit for and taking way more blame than he deserves.

Ok...I just can't let this go. It's going to be hard for him to put something on a budget when we have NOT HAD ONE since he was elected. Unconstitutionally so and for the FIRST TIME in this country's history, I might add.

Our government has been operating on something called a continuing resolution...CR for short. EVERYTHING the government is spending is on a CR! No budget, no paper trail to the politician who spent the money. CR, that means that EVERYthing is discretionary spending to the president. THAT is Obamanomics! Borrow 1.5 trillion a year and SPEND 3.8 TRILLION...Obamanomics!

Well they ARE!

Sheesh...all you have to do to prove it is look at the dates when these things began.

Two wars and a financial collapse all happened PRIOR to January 20th 2009.

Blaming Obama for two wars and the financial collapse is like trying to blame Richard Nixon for the Viet Nam war.

Look at a calendar, man.


You want to say that Obamas policies have EXTENDED this economic crisis. Fine. Ill debate that with you all day long. But to lay the BLAME for it all at his feet is just dishonest.

Swing...and a MISS...Strike 2! ;~)

By the calendar...according to the CBO, all but 20 billion of the Bush era bailouts had been repaid and the so called "Bush recession" ENDED in January 2009. You know, the same month as Obama took office? And that last 20 billion was paid back by March of 2009!

Obama OWNS THIS ECONOMY!!!

Just like he owns the clinging to their god and guns comment, the Joe the plumber, spread the wealth socialist slip of the tongue, Obamacare, that insane open mic promise to "have more leeway after the election" to capitulate to Putin's new Soviet Socialist Republic INSANITY in Europe, just like the "you didn't build that" comment AND like he owns this latest "return to shared prosperity" comment. WHICH, is yet one more example to PROVE that Obama lied and WAS paying attention to Reverend Wright for the 20 years he sat listening as that POS was preaching collective salvation.

He OWNS all that and more...he just won't ADMIT to ANY of it!

A lie by commission OR omission is STILL a lie!

And by the way, if anyone wants to argue that Bush was responsible for the recession...I'll argue THAT is bull all day long!

He just happened to be the guy in office when the latest bubble economy crashed. People seem to forget that Bush inherited a recession from the Dot Com bubble economy bursting. And TRUST ME folks, if this collective prosperity/salvation progressive crap is allowed to continue...it will NOT be the last one.

These are carbon copy repeats of the insane FDR social engineering policies that turned the depression into the Great Depression. A title that it is ONLY known by in American and ONLY because of FDR. In Europe it was just a depression that most of Europe fully recovered from in a couple years.

The only reason we EVER began to recover was increased production of war goods for export to England and the allies.