A topic for objective conversation

jwoodie

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2012
19,272
8,035
940
OK, here are the questions. (I am interested in problem identification and solution, not speeches.)

A White baby and a Black baby are born at the same time in the same hospital. AT THAT TIME, is it more likely that the White baby is "advantaged" and the Black baby "disadvantaged?"

1. If so, what what advantages and disadvantages are affecting these newborns?

2. If not, when and how do these advantages and disadvantages first appear?

3. Are there specific, demonstrated measures that will remove these disadvantages?

4. If so, what are they?
 
At birth, the white baby is more likely to be born into a 2 parent household, is more likely to be raised by better educated parents, is less likely to face discrimination because of the color of his/her skin. The white child is more likely to have more positive role models thru the formative years.

Those are just a few differences off the top of my head.
 
At birth, the white baby is more likely to be born into a 2 parent household, is more likely to be raised by better educated parents, is less likely to face discrimination because of the color of his/her skin. The white child is more likely to have more positive role models thru the formative years.

Those are just a few differences off the top of my head.

Please reread my post and answer the questions I asked AT THE POINT OF BIRTH. If it helps, you can assume that both babies are born into similar households with similar educations.

But at least you responded. It appears that no one else is willing to discuss this issue. Why is that?
 
If both children are born into households with two hetero parents with at least a two-year college education, both holding middle-income jobs, there would be no real difference in the outcome for either child. Going forward, there are so many variables that it would be impossible to determine which child would eventually be more successful.
 
The white baby is more likely to be born to a mom who had prenatal care, and who was more likely to be taken more seriously by her doctor.

The black baby is more likely to be born to a mom who is attended by a doctor with biases against her.
 
At birth, the white baby is more likely to be born into a 2 parent household, is more likely to be raised by better educated parents, is less likely to face discrimination because of the color of his/her skin. The white child is more likely to have more positive role models thru the formative years.

Those are just a few differences off the top of my head.

Please reread my post and answer the questions I asked AT THE POINT OF BIRTH. If it helps, you can assume that both babies are born into similar households with similar educations.

But at least you responded. It appears that no one else is willing to discuss this issue. Why is that?

I reject your premises of assuming both babies are born into similar households. The raw data shows that black babies and white beanies are not born into similar households. They just aren’t. Now, if you have an objective of what you want this thread to be which is about the color of someone’s skin and race relations, then your lead in didn’t suggest that, or was that intentional?
 
The white baby is more likely to be born to a mom who had prenatal care, and who was more likely to be taken more seriously by her doctor.

The black baby is more likely to be born to a mom who is attended by a doctor with biases against her.
How so?

This is playing to the odds. By no means is it universal. But black patients are more likely to get substandard care. Sometimes, it’s due to going to overly-busy clinics with stretched resources. Sometimes, it’s because providers have biases about black people (that they’re uneducated, non-compliant to treatment, or drug-seeking).
 
The white baby is more likely to be born to a mom who had prenatal care, and who was more likely to be taken more seriously by her doctor.

The black baby is more likely to be born to a mom who is attended by a doctor with biases against her.

Are you saying that black babies are more likely to be (physically) disadvantaged at birth? (YES/NO)

1. If yes, what steps should be taken to ameliorate this condition and who should take them?

2. If no, when do the black baby's disadvantages begin?
 
The white baby is more likely to be born to a mom who had prenatal care, and who was more likely to be taken more seriously by her doctor.

The black baby is more likely to be born to a mom who is attended by a doctor with biases against her.

Are you saying that black babies are more likely to be (physically) disadvantaged at birth? (YES/NO)

1. If yes, what steps should be taken to ameliorate this condition and who should take them?

2. If no, when do the black baby's disadvantages begin?

I do believe that, all else being equal, black babies are born with disadvantages from a more likelihood of substandard prenatal care for their mothers.

What steps should be taken? Educate people about the stupidity and ineffectiveness of using stereotype-based prejudices when dealing with people.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: IM2
1. The white baby is not facing an inherent racial bias and is, thereby, advantaged, but that is not the white baby's fault, nor that of his/her parents.

2. See 1

3. Yes. See post #2, which pretty much answered your OP, whether you want to admit it or not.

4. See #2. Having two parents Better educated parents. Parents who sacrifice to provide better opportunities. Not blaming others.
 
I do believe that, all else being equal, black babies are born with disadvantages from a more likelihood of substandard prenatal care for their mothers.

What steps should be taken? Educate people about the stupidity and ineffectiveness of using stereotype-based prejudices when dealing with people.

So "educating people about the stupidity and ineffectiveness of using stereotype-based prejudices when dealing with people" will improve prenatal care? How so?
 
I do believe that, all else being equal, black babies are born with disadvantages from a more likelihood of substandard prenatal care for their mothers.

What steps should be taken? Educate people about the stupidity and ineffectiveness of using stereotype-based prejudices when dealing with people.

So "educating people about the stupidity and ineffectiveness of using stereotype-based prejudices when dealing with people" will improve prenatal care? How so?

Specifically, for doctors? They need to listen to and observe the patient and avoid making stereotype-based assumptions.

Before we go any further, you should know that I don’t believe in “magic bullet” answers. Education, enlightenment are the way to combat racially-based disadvantages. More doctors of color would probably help, too. But really, it’s about combating a mindset.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: IM2
1. The white baby is not facing an inherent racial bias and is, thereby, advantaged, but that is not the white baby's fault, nor that of his/her parents.

2. See 1

3. Yes. See post #2, which pretty much answered your OP, whether you want to admit it or not.

4. See #2. Having two parents Better educated parents. Parents who sacrifice to provide better opportunities. Not blaming others.

I appreciate the enumeration, but these are not exactly responsive to my questions:

1. I asked what advantages or disadvantages were affecting these newborns while still at the hospital, not in the future.

2. If there were no advantages/disadvantages AT THAT TIME, I asked when and how would they first appear. "Inherent racial bias" does not answer this question.

3. I asked if there are specific, demonstrated measures that will remove these disadvantages. Post #2 does not address this question.

4. If having better educated two-parent households who sacrifice to provide better opportunities, what measures will change this disparity between white and black households?
 
If both children are born into households with two hetero parents with at least a two-year college education, both holding middle-income jobs, there would be no real difference in the outcome for either child. Going forward, there are so many variables that it would be impossible to determine which child would eventually be more successful.
Not so, surprisingly. If the black parents were born low income and received substandard parenting, they tend to parent their children the same way. So those children, as much as they are in a better neighborhood and living more comfortably, are still not receiving the same parenting skills. I read that in a psychology/parenting text book. The third generation starts showing improvement in IQ scores, if that matters.
 
If both children are born into households with two hetero parents with at least a two-year college education, both holding middle-income jobs, there would be no real difference in the outcome for either child. Going forward, there are so many variables that it would be impossible to determine which child would eventually be more successful.
Not so, surprisingly. If the black parents were born low income and received substandard parenting, they tend to parent their children the same way. So those children, as much as they are in a better neighborhood and living more comfortably, are still not receiving the same parenting skills. I read that in a psychology/parenting text book. The third generation starts showing improvement in IQ scores, if that matters.
Essentially, no two children are born into equal circumstances. We come back to nature vs. nurture. How and who raises a child will play a significant role in how those children mature. Your premise assumes that black parents are somehow substandard when compared to white parents.
 
I reject your premises

Then there is no reason for you to continue polluting this thread.
So...you only want people to post that tickle your own opinions to which you are not currently stating. Good to know. I will not bother to "pollute" your thread further.

Yep, he had an agenda and didn’t have the balls to state it in the op. That may be part of the reason the thread is failing miserably.
 

Forum List

Back
Top