CDZ A thought on armed teachers - how we could make it work

A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Bullshit.
So you'd go up against an AR-15 with a handgun? Figures. :biggrin:

I would much rather go up against an AR-15 with a handgun than with a stick of chalk. If I survived the first 30 rounds, he wouldn't survive reloading.


And an important point.......the mass shooters to this point commit suicide, surrnder or run away as soon as they meet any armed resistance....so the odds are it would not be a gun fight....
 
One does not have to be ex-military or a former policeman to be competent to handle a firearm. All is needed is a little training for those that need it. But this and of itself is not going to solve the problem.............a three pronged approach is needed..........1. Force Schools to deal with bullies.......a major source of motivation for school shooters....they have been or are being bullied and the school does not deal with it. 2. Make sure mentally ill people cannot legally obtain weapons. 3. Arm the teachers and school administrators.

I disagree on a "little" training for armed teachers
Dealing with an active shooter is a difficult situation. Many cops can't handle it
There needs to be serious training and strict rules of engagement before we allow armed teachers
No matter how many times you are told that you cannot be trained for being shot at you keep repeating the same ignorant bullshit. Why is that? You don't want to keep killers out of schools do you? All you can do is try to keep your wits about you and shoot back. If someone has a gun in a school and is killing people or trying to, that should enough for even the most simple minded fool to know they are the threat and to shoot them.

Cops are trained all the time
Active shooter is an extremely stressful situation. Expecting untrained teachers to react correctly and not do more damage is unreasonable

Ridiculous idea....people have an innate sense of self defense and if they have the means they will do what is required. Also...we are calling for the teachers to be trained. Let me ax you a question........if you are in a schoolroom and some nutcase with a weapon is coming down the hallway headed for your classroom....would you rather rely on hiding under your desk and calling 911 or would you rather have your teacher armed and ready to respond to the threat? Under which scenario would you think you have a better chance of surviving.
I have already said I was OK with trained teachers or school personnel being armed

I am just pointing out that this is not the movies and expecting a teacher to take on an assailant armed with an AR-15 is asking a lot of an Alegebra teacher


It is asking a lot of anyone to confront a armed assailant no matter the weapon.....we now know that 4 deputies refused to confront the shooter....could a teacher ....any teacher do worse? The first thing that needs to be considered is the fact that a teacher would be more motivated to take action...they are not outside the school able to hide behind a police car. They are inside with the shooter.....thus to protect their own life as well as the lives of their students they would be very motivated....and even if they failed...they would slow down the shooter at the very least and thus save lives...the more armed teachers the better...plus the teachers have intimate knowledge of the school...the floor plan etc. they would know where to go, where to take cover and shoot back etc.etc. and so on and so forth. Ax yoself....would you rather hide under a desk praying the police will get there before the shooter gets you? Or would you rather your teacher had a gun to at least be able to do something to save your life...many,many students have died waiting for the police to arrive...as has been stated it takes the police on the average about 8 mins. to get to the scene....a shooter can kill a lot of people in 8 minutes...but if has to deal with some armed teachers....a whole different story. Try and use some common sense people.


Also...................................
Bottome Line: Trump promised to get the Federal Government out of our public schools...time he made good on that promise.
 
There have been 18 school shootings SO FAR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! 6 WEEKS!!!!! But doing nothing is ok?
As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.
A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.
What is YOUR solution?
I've given up, I say arm all the students.
Well, that didn't take long. I guess you don't care enough to find real solutions that will work. BTW, arming the students, who have the maturity, skill, and ability to respond (if such a unicorn high school student even exists) is a solution I would be willing to hear more about. I think for MOST cases this would be a very bad idea, but I could be convinced... Give it a shot, who knows who else may be convinced. You may even be on to something. Worth exploring at least.

Lookee here..........we have a long history of sending teenagers into combat with not that much training....we could do the same with the most eligible students....not that complicated...just requires a little logic and common sense....select a few teachers who have the best aptitude for handling firearms as well as a select group of students...train them, arm them and I guarantee you that any school which does that will not have any mass killings ...the crazed shooter if he dares go to such a school would be stopped very quickly.
 
As long as you continue to deny teachers a right to defend themselves and the kids YOU are responsible.
A society must be really sick if its only solution is to arm the teachers.
What is YOUR solution?
I've given up, I say arm all the students.
Well, that didn't take long. I guess you don't care enough to find real solutions that will work. BTW, arming the students, who have the maturity, skill, and ability to respond (if such a unicorn high school student even exists) is a solution I would be willing to hear more about. I think for MOST cases this would be a very bad idea, but I could be convinced... Give it a shot, who knows who else may be convinced. You may even be on to something. Worth exploring at least.
Students all have a 2nd Amendment right to carry. Doesn't matter what we think.


If I were a student I would feel much safer knowing some of my fellow students and teachers are armed and trained to intervene....much more so than praying and hoping the police can arrive in time to stop this guy....time and again we see the scenario of waiting on the cops does not turn out well.
 
A lone policeman, armed with his service revolver is probably not going to engage a shooter. He is outgunned at that point. Normally they would call for backup

A single teacher, armed with a handgun, with little training is ill-equipped to do battle with an active shooter
If the opportunity arises, where he could get off a shot undetected, he may kill the shooter. But going head to head against an AR-15 is not adviseable

Bullshit.
So you'd go up against an AR-15 with a handgun? Figures. :biggrin:

I would much rather go up against an AR-15 with a handgun than with a stick of chalk. If I survived the first 30 rounds, he wouldn't survive reloading.


And an important point.......the mass shooters to this point commit suicide, surrnder or run away as soon as they meet any armed resistance....so the odds are it would not be a gun fight....

The liberals always want to pretend they have the moral high ground...the problem is their morals are skewered.
 
My wife is a public school teacher - 21 years in

one of her co-workers is retired military, Air Force Major

my thought - EVERY public school should have one ex military officer for every 100 - 150 kids enrolled

these teachers would be specially licensed to carry a firearm at the school

this would be in addition to the SRO (School Resource Officer) & would provide backup and added protection; the SRO would be the "point man" and be "in charge" in an emergency situation

so - a school with 500 students would have an SRO (real police officer) and FIVE trained and armed teachers for protection and emergency situations - for a total of 6 people trained and armed to secure the school

these ex military teachers (could also be retired police, or similar field) would receive an additional $5,000 - $10,000 per year for their added responsibility (that works out to $250 - $500 a month in pay - seems fair) and would be responsible to attend training and anti terrorism instructions at least once a quarter - all of them get together and run training exorcises and study and practice best hiding places for students; best modes of exit, etc)

I could easily see a state like Alabama or Louisiana piloting and testing a system like this & I also think it would work - IE reduce the number of shootings/incidents; because the knowledge of the added security would serve as a deterrent - would make schools less of a soft target

many schools already have ex military on staff that could already participate

what do y'all think of that?

I do not totally oppose having trained teachers who are permitted to carry concealed. I do not want open carry in schools

Raises a lot of issues on level of training, ability to handle an active shooter situation and expectation of the ability of a teacher to confront a gunman with an AR-15 using only a handgun

It works in the movies where the good guy always gets the bad guy despite overwhelming odds. In real life, an innocent student could get killed or the teacher could be confused with the gunman when the police arrive

Innocent students are already getting killed, and a little training can easily prevent armed teachers from being confused with the gunman.

I would not advocate that armed teachers seek out the shooter. I say that an armed teacher in a locked classroom with his/her students is a better option than just hoping the shooter will go somewhere else.

I also advocate the five minute defense plan for all schools.. Buildings should be built or modified to hold off an armed intruder for at least five minutes. That is usually enough time for the police to respond.

You are on the mark....make the school room doors bullet proof with good locks...add a armed teacher to the classroom....and that would diminish the threat tremendously....the shooter knowing he only has a few mins. before the cops arrive and confronted with armed teachers/students in a locked down and bullet resistant classroom would be obstacles that he could not overcome....just American know how folks...a little common sense and pragmatism goes a long way. No need for this issue to be poitized so that some politicans can prentend they are trying to solve the problem by makeing stupid suggestions aka do way with the second amendment. Look at the drug situation and all the laws against drugs...yet our society is inundated with them....anytime there is a demand someone will be there to fullfill the demand...a lot of money to be made by nefarious elements if the 2nd amendment was nullified.
 
So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

A high school dropout, with a desire to teach, could do a better job than what we have seen the last several years in many of our public schools.

Many military retirees have had instructor training, and have taught very technical subjects to many students. Their presence in the schools would have advantageous effect on school discipline in addition to the deterrence effect of being armed.

I would say that the so called school resource officers(security guards) should require some military training if there are vets available and that want the job. Yes...a good idea...along with arming qualified students and teachers....a mix that would ensure the safety of the majority of students......might be some collateral damage....but it would reduce the casualties tremendously. Tell the liberals either to join us or get the hell out of the way....understanding that many of these liberal politicians do not even send their kids to public schools.
 
So when teachers have to spend money out of their own pocket at virtually EVERY school, so the kids will have what they need, the answer is "No!". But when it comes to spending lots of money to arm teachers for a relatively rare occurrance, somehow the money is there?

Will these retired military "teachers" be able to teach? People spend years learning to do it, and the test scores are still slipping. People with no experience will be able to do the job?

A high school dropout, with a desire to teach, could do a better job than what we have seen the last several years in many of our public schools.

Many military retirees have had instructor training, and have taught very technical subjects to many students. ....


Are you kidding?


We waste billions of dollars bussing ghetto kids to suburban schools where they all too often are not there to get an education....but I digress....anyhow....it would not be that expensive to arm students and teachers...many of them already have weapons and the training could be on a voluntary basis....every community has people that could train the students and teachers in regards to how to handle a weapon and the best tactics to use. I am sure many of them would do that on a voluntary basis...it could be done...and in a very economic manner.
 
2ND point needs to be considered, what effect will having armed personal in school be on the little kids? will they be scared, or will they think a guns cool & want one too.


Too many liberals have a gun phobia.....kids would get used to the idea very quickly....they are very adaptable as anyone who has been around kids understands. They could deputize the armed students and give them badges....even little kids understand that folks with badges carry guns...no big deal.
 
We need to look to Switzerland. 'In the right to bear arms debate, pro-gun Americans point to Switzerland, where almost every adult male is legally required to possess a gun. One of the few nations with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States, Switzerland has virtually no gun crime.'

Which proves that guns are not the problem.........people are.

. http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top