A Tale of Two Storms. $60 Billion in Fed Aid Within 10 Days

[depotoo]

mandatory evacuations were not ordered, due to needing to make sure litigations would not happen if it didn't hit, according to Ray Nagin, then mayor, until Sunday when the storm actually starting affecting New Orleans late that day. Way to late to really get people out and no real help was supplied by him to get them out. It states it is 1 day before it was issued, yet does not mention the facts that her arrival was heralded by rains and winds and surge much less than 1 day before. The eye came in during the early morning hours of the 29th. The winds, rain and surge began arriving before that.

Sunday 28 August 2005 - 1 day before
10.00 AM CDT: NOLA: Mandatory Evacuation
Mayor Nagin orders mandatory evacuation, the first in the history of the city. "We are facing a storm that most of us have feared. I don't want to create panic, but I do want the citizens to understand that this is very serious, and it is of the highest nature." (CNN)

Landfall is when the actually eye touches land. Her wind swath was massive as well as her storm surge which began pushing in before her eye ever touched land.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yup, 10 days

In the 10 days after Hurricane Katrina made landfall in Louisiana, the Republican-controlled Congress approved two bills providing $62.3 billion in emergency funding, and President George W. Bush immediately signed them into law.

It has now been 60+ days and counting.

Can "unprecedented" be overused?

I thought Bush and the Republicans were big suckie meanies?

 

[bodecea]

A tale of two storms?/

Yup. The State and local Govt dropped the ball on Katrina. Bush told that dumb assed Gov to declare it a disaster area three days before the storm hit. The moron didn't do it and in fact waffled about it even after the levis broke.

The State should have had a mandatory evacuation and forced everyone out. NO is 5 feet below sea level. Only a moron would have stayed. They had 250 school busses that could have taken loads out. Those same school busses got flooded out.

Bush and FEMA took the hit but the State and local Gov and that stupid Gov were to blame. Of course some will contunue to Blame Bush and FEMA but hey, its the lefty way.

You are utterly full of revisionist shit, and I told you this in the other thread.

The fact is Governor Blanco asked for federal assistance on Saturday August 27, as soon as it became clear the storm was coming. And Bush signed off. In other words they both did their jobs. Something you couldn't be bothered to do in anything like "research".

"...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. ... "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."" -- Gov. Kathleen Blanco, August 27 ... that's two days before the storm. DUH.

By the way Governors don't declare disaster areas. Presidents do. - and they do that after the event. You can't do it before.

The blame has already been lain, officially, on the Army Corps of Engineers. If that doesn't fit your revisionist agenda that's just too god damn fucking bad.

The blame rests with the Einstein that decided to build a major city in a hurricane zone that is below sea level.

Name that "Einstein".

 

[depotoo]

I recall that one leftist blogger contacted me asking for personal testimonials about FEMA failures. I told him the truth: that my experience was perfectly smooth with no problems. I didn't hear from him again, nor did he mention my comment.

Don't get me wrong, if there's reason to criticize George W. Bush I will be clawing to the front of the line like a Black Friday shopper at 5 a.m. But I'm not going to do it for dishonest made-up reasons when I know better.

This is the poison that infects our discourse -- using politics as some sort of team sport, where we're not supposed to care about anything except whether some subject is wearing a red or blue uniform. Even if we have to climb over dead bodies floating down the street to get there.

That's candyass bullshit. Not everything in the world is a freaking partisan war theater. Let's get over it already.

I applaud you.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You are utterly full of revisionist shit, and I told you this in the other thread.

The fact is Governor Blanco asked for federal assistance on Saturday August 27, as soon as it became clear the storm was coming. And Bush signed off. In other words they both did their jobs. Something you couldn't be bothered to do in anything like "research".

"...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. ... "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."" -- Gov. Kathleen Blanco, August 27 ... that's two days before the storm. DUH.

By the way Governors don't declare disaster areas. Presidents do. - and they do that after the event. You can't do it before.

The blame has already been lain, officially, on the Army Corps of Engineers. If that doesn't fit your revisionist agenda that's just too god damn fucking bad.

The blame rests with the Einstein that decided to build a major city in a hurricane zone that is below sea level.

Name that "Einstein".

That would be one Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville...

 

[Pogo]

You are utterly full of revisionist shit, and I told you this in the other thread.

The fact is Governor Blanco asked for federal assistance on Saturday August 27, as soon as it became clear the storm was coming. And Bush signed off. In other words they both did their jobs. Something you couldn't be bothered to do in anything like "research".

"...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. ... "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."" -- Gov. Kathleen Blanco, August 27 ... that's two days before the storm. DUH.

By the way Governors don't declare disaster areas. Presidents do. - and they do that after the event. You can't do it before.

The blame has already been lain, officially, on the Army Corps of Engineers. If that doesn't fit your revisionist agenda that's just too god damn fucking bad.

The blame rests with the Einstein that decided to build a major city in a hurricane zone that is below sea level.

Name that "Einstein".

Bienville.
Doesn't even sound German, does it?

 

[depotoo]

You are utterly full of revisionist shit, and I told you this in the other thread.

The fact is Governor Blanco asked for federal assistance on Saturday August 27, as soon as it became clear the storm was coming. And Bush signed off. In other words they both did their jobs. Something you couldn't be bothered to do in anything like "research".

"...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. ... "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."" -- Gov. Kathleen Blanco, August 27 ... that's two days before the storm. DUH.

By the way Governors don't declare disaster areas. Presidents do. - and they do that after the event. You can't do it before.

The blame has already been lain, officially, on the Army Corps of Engineers. If that doesn't fit your revisionist agenda that's just too god damn fucking bad.

The blame rests with the Einstein that decided to build a major city in a hurricane zone that is below sea level.

Name that "Einstein".

La Nouvelle-Orléans (New Orleans) was founded May 7, 1718, by the French Mississippi Company, under the direction of Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville, on land inhabited by the Chitimacha. It was named for Philippe d'Orléans, Duke of Orléans, who was Regent of France at the time

New Orleans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ringel05]

You are utterly full of revisionist shit, and I told you this in the other thread.

The fact is Governor Blanco asked for federal assistance on Saturday August 27, as soon as it became clear the storm was coming. And Bush signed off. In other words they both did their jobs. Something you couldn't be bothered to do in anything like "research".

"...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal. ... "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan."" -- Gov. Kathleen Blanco, August 27 ... that's two days before the storm. DUH.

By the way Governors don't declare disaster areas. Presidents do. - and they do that after the event. You can't do it before.

The blame has already been lain, officially, on the Army Corps of Engineers. If that doesn't fit your revisionist agenda that's just too god damn fucking bad.

Governors don't declare disaster areas?

I guess the media (and the governors office) gets it wrong every time they do. Who knew?

Correct. A governor can declare a state of emergency to facilitate aid and evacuation plans in a situation where an emergency is expected (in the case of Katrina this was done Friday 8/26). But the President is the guy that declares a disaster area once it happens (to qualify for a certain level of federal aid). But here's the funny part --- nobody can declare that a place is a "disaster area" in an area where no disaster yet exists. It's all about linear time; a thing does not exist before it exists. Hilarious, isn't it?

This is how it's always reported. The memory is the second thing to go...

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties
Printer-friendly version

Declaring a Disaster in the Counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming And Yates

WHEREAS, on October 28, 2012 and continuing thereafter, Hurricane Sandy is forecast to impact New York State, resulting in evacuations of the threatened populations and posing an imminent danger to vital public transportation, utility service, and public health and public safety systems within the counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming and Yates; and



WHEREAS, this event may cause widespread power outages and flooding, damage to homes, apartments, businesses, and public and private property, damage and uproot trees, and continue to pose a threat to the public health and safety;



NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANDREW M. CUOMO

Sandy hit on the 29th....... Uuummmmm.............

 

[Pogo]

Governors don't declare disaster areas?

I guess the media (and the governors office) gets it wrong every time they do. Who knew?

Correct. A governor can declare a state of emergency to facilitate aid and evacuation plans in a situation where an emergency is expected (in the case of Katrina this was done Friday 8/26). But the President is the guy that declares a disaster area once it happens (to qualify for a certain level of federal aid). But here's the funny part --- nobody can declare that a place is a "disaster area" in an area where no disaster yet exists. It's all about linear time; a thing does not exist before it exists. Hilarious, isn't it?

This is how it's always reported. The memory is the second thing to go...

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties
Printer-friendly version

Declaring a Disaster in the Counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming And Yates

WHEREAS, on October 28, 2012 and continuing thereafter, Hurricane Sandy is forecast to impact New York State, resulting in evacuations of the threatened populations and posing an imminent danger to vital public transportation, utility service, and public health and public safety systems within the counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming and Yates; and



WHEREAS, this event may cause widespread power outages and flooding, damage to homes, apartments, businesses, and public and private property, damage and uproot trees, and continue to pose a threat to the public health and safety;



NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANDREW M. CUOMO

Sandy hit on the 29th....... Uuummmmm.............

That's New York. Different terminology. Last night's errant point was on Louisiana.

Look, she's already acknowledged she was wrong, let it go.

 

[Ringel05]

Correct. A governor can declare a state of emergency to facilitate aid and evacuation plans in a situation where an emergency is expected (in the case of Katrina this was done Friday 8/26). But the President is the guy that declares a disaster area once it happens (to qualify for a certain level of federal aid). But here's the funny part --- nobody can declare that a place is a "disaster area" in an area where no disaster yet exists. It's all about linear time; a thing does not exist before it exists. Hilarious, isn't it?

This is how it's always reported. The memory is the second thing to go...

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

Governor Cuomo Declares a Disaster in the Following Counties
Printer-friendly version

Declaring a Disaster in the Counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming And Yates

WHEREAS, on October 28, 2012 and continuing thereafter, Hurricane Sandy is forecast to impact New York State, resulting in evacuations of the threatened populations and posing an imminent danger to vital public transportation, utility service, and public health and public safety systems within the counties of Albany, Allegany, Bronx, Broome, Cattaraugus, Cayuga, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Clinton, Columbia, Cortland, Delaware, Dutchess, Erie, Essex, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Greene, Hamilton, Herkimer, Jefferson, Kings, Lewis, Livingston, Madison, Monroe, Montgomery, Nassau, New York, Niagara, Oneida, Onondaga, Ontario, Orange, Orleans, Oswego, Otsego, Putnam, Queens, Rensselaer, Richmond, Rockland, Saratoga, Schenectady, Schoharie, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben, St. Lawrence, Suffolk, Sullivan, Tioga, Tompkins, Ulster, Warren, Washington, Wayne, Westchester, Wyoming and Yates; and



WHEREAS, this event may cause widespread power outages and flooding, damage to homes, apartments, businesses, and public and private property, damage and uproot trees, and continue to pose a threat to the public health and safety;



NOW, THEREFORE, I, ANDREW M. CUOMO

Sandy hit on the 29th....... Uuummmmm.............

That's New York. Different terminology. Last night's errant point was on Louisiana.

Look, she's already acknowledged she was wrong, let it go.

I was simply pointing out your erroneous statement that presidents, not governors declare emergencies in their states. Generally it is done after the fact and yes the president can declare emergency's but it is the Governor of the state, not the federal governments' decision and the president affirms or denies said declaration from the federal level.

 

[boedicca]

Obama promised a Big & Fast response to Sandy:

President Obama promises swift action by the federal government and specifically by FEMA. Obama called it a "a serious and big storm." Obama promised to "to respond big and respond fast."

President Obama has been in touch with the governors of the potentially impacted states, as well as the mayors of some of the mayors of the major cities in the region. He has also been in touch with regional officials of FEMA as well....

President Obama promises FEMA's response to Hurricane Sandy to be 'big and fast' - National White House Press | Examiner.com


What the chump/victims didn't grok is that Big & Fast meant Photo Op.

 

[Vast LWC]

Obama promised a Big & Fast response to Sandy:

President Obama promises swift action by the federal government and specifically by FEMA. Obama called it a "a serious and big storm." Obama promised to "to respond big and respond fast."

President Obama has been in touch with the governors of the potentially impacted states, as well as the mayors of some of the mayors of the major cities in the region. He has also been in touch with regional officials of FEMA as well....

President Obama promises FEMA's response to Hurricane Sandy to be 'big and fast' - National White House Press | Examiner.com

What the chump/victims didn't grok is that Big & Fast meant Photo Op.

Obama attempted to give a "big and fast" response.

Little did he know that the jackass Republicans in the House of Representatives would fight him even on a no-brainer like this.

The Congress after Katrina put through the funding right away.

The Congress we have now is so fucking useless that even the simplest legislation and funding requests take months to go through, if they ever go through at all.

This has nothing to do with who was or is president at the time. It has everything to do with the fact that this Congress is, by any measure, the worst congress in the last century, perhaps longer.

 

[Pogo]

mandatory evacuations were not ordered, due to needing to make sure litigations would not happen if it didn't hit, according to Ray Nagin, then mayor, until Sunday when the storm actually starting affecting New Orleans late that day. Way to late to really get people out and no real help was supplied by him to get them out. It states it is 1 day before it was issued, yet does not mention the facts that her arrival was heralded by rains and winds and surge much less than 1 day before. The eye came in during the early morning hours of the 29th. The winds, rain and surge began arriving before that.

Sunday 28 August 2005 - 1 day before
10.00 AM CDT: NOLA: Mandatory Evacuation
Mayor Nagin orders mandatory evacuation, the first in the history of the city. "We are facing a storm that most of us have feared. I don't want to create panic, but I do want the citizens to understand that this is very serious, and it is of the highest nature." (CNN)

Landfall is when the actually eye touches land. Her wind swath was massive as well as her storm surge which began pushing in before her eye ever touched land.

On the geography and when things "arrived" -- New Orleans is not on the Gulf; it's upriver. When the hurricane made landfall it was down around Buras in the outer banks. During the Sunday evacuation the winds were still calm most of the day, starting to gust up in late afternoon. We had no weather issues in the process of leaving. Just traffic.

Ray Nagin is a serious contender for the title of the other thread about this, the "biggest asshole in America". I don't think you could find anyone in N'awlins left to defend him after he used the mayor's office to give the city the middle finger (not just for this but a lot of other crapola).

That said however, Sunday was the day everybody who had not already left was leaving, way before Ray Nagin went through the motions on TV. I would have gone Saturday night had I not been exhausted from all the hurry-up offense prep. So we didn't need (nor do I think anyone cared about) Ray Nagin's word in order to act.

Still, I'm not clear why all the obsession on the distinction of whether an evacuation was officially "mandatory" -- do people actually think citizens were sitting around going "well I dunno cher, let's wait an see what da mayor sez"? Nothing is effective until it comes from an official? Isn't this much like passing gun control laws and expecting violence just goes away because the official channels said they should?

 

[depotoo]

mandatory evacuations were not ordered, due to needing to make sure litigations would not happen if it didn't hit, according to Ray Nagin, then mayor, until Sunday when the storm actually starting affecting New Orleans late that day. Way to late to really get people out and no real help was supplied by him to get them out. It states it is 1 day before it was issued, yet does not mention the facts that her arrival was heralded by rains and winds and surge much less than 1 day before. The eye came in during the early morning hours of the 29th. The winds, rain and surge began arriving before that.

Sunday 28 August 2005 - 1 day before
10.00 AM CDT: NOLA: Mandatory Evacuation
Mayor Nagin orders mandatory evacuation, the first in the history of the city. "We are facing a storm that most of us have feared. I don't want to create panic, but I do want the citizens to understand that this is very serious, and it is of the highest nature." (CNN)

Landfall is when the actually eye touches land. Her wind swath was massive as well as her storm surge which began pushing in before her eye ever touched land.

On the geography and when things "arrived" -- New Orleans is not on the Gulf; it's upriver. When the hurricane made landfall it was down around Buras in the outer banks. During the Sunday evacuation the winds were still calm most of the day, starting to gust up in late afternoon. We had no weather issues in the process of leaving. Just traffic.

Ray Nagin is a serious contender for the title of the other thread about this, the "biggest asshole in America". I don't think you could find anyone in N'awlins left to defend him after he used the mayor's office to give the city the middle finger (not just for this but a lot of other crapola).

That said however, Sunday was the day everybody who had not already left was leaving, way before Ray Nagin went through the motions on TV. I would have gone Saturday night had I not been exhausted from all the hurry-up offense prep. So we didn't need (nor do I think anyone cared about) Ray Nagin's word in order to act.

Still, I'm not clear why all the obsession on the distinction of whether an evacuation was officially "mandatory" -- do people actually think citizens were sitting around going "well I dunno cher, let's wait an see what da mayor sez"? Nothing is effective until it comes from an official? Isn't this much like passing gun control laws and expecting violence just goes away because the official channels said they should?

unfortunately, it is human nature to say it won't hit me. I am a member of a hurricane board in which it is discussed all the time. I also live in a hurricane zone in which many will refuse to leave even when ordered simply because last time it didn't hit when they were told to evacuate, and then it does and they are shocked and wished they had. A few years ago they waited until the very last minute like with Katrina in New Orleans to issue evac orders, those people and the county were caught with their pants down.

 

[Pogo]

mandatory evacuations were not ordered, due to needing to make sure litigations would not happen if it didn't hit, according to Ray Nagin, then mayor, until Sunday when the storm actually starting affecting New Orleans late that day. Way to late to really get people out and no real help was supplied by him to get them out. It states it is 1 day before it was issued, yet does not mention the facts that her arrival was heralded by rains and winds and surge much less than 1 day before. The eye came in during the early morning hours of the 29th. The winds, rain and surge began arriving before that.


Landfall is when the actually eye touches land. Her wind swath was massive as well as her storm surge which began pushing in before her eye ever touched land.

On the geography and when things "arrived" -- New Orleans is not on the Gulf; it's upriver. When the hurricane made landfall it was down around Buras in the outer banks. During the Sunday evacuation the winds were still calm most of the day, starting to gust up in late afternoon. We had no weather issues in the process of leaving. Just traffic.

Ray Nagin is a serious contender for the title of the other thread about this, the "biggest asshole in America". I don't think you could find anyone in N'awlins left to defend him after he used the mayor's office to give the city the middle finger (not just for this but a lot of other crapola).

That said however, Sunday was the day everybody who had not already left was leaving, way before Ray Nagin went through the motions on TV. I would have gone Saturday night had I not been exhausted from all the hurry-up offense prep. So we didn't need (nor do I think anyone cared about) Ray Nagin's word in order to act.

Still, I'm not clear why all the obsession on the distinction of whether an evacuation was officially "mandatory" -- do people actually think citizens were sitting around going "well I dunno cher, let's wait an see what da mayor sez"? Nothing is effective until it comes from an official? Isn't this much like passing gun control laws and expecting violence just goes away because the official channels said they should?

unfortunately, it is human nature to say it won't hit me. I am a member of a hurricane board in which it is discussed all the time. I also live in a hurricane zone in which many will refuse to leave even when ordered simply because last time it didn't hit when they were told to evacuate, and then it does and they are shocked and wished they had. A few years ago they waited until the very last minute like with Katrina in New Orleans to issue evac orders, those people and the county were caught with their pants down.

They didn't "wait until the very last minute" -- believe me, New Orleanians are not new to hurricanes. The path of the storm was not established until at least Friday.

But as far as what it meant, no the Katrina-type event is what we all talked about for decades, regardless what time of the year -- "the Big One", just as we talk about the day California slips into the sea. And I'm sure when that happens the same Monday Morning quarterbacks will be here, yapping that they should have got out of there the week before...

Now we simply have a name for The Big One. But you can't evacuate people for what you don't know about yet.

 

[depotoo]

On the geography and when things "arrived" -- New Orleans is not on the Gulf; it's upriver. When the hurricane made landfall it was down around Buras in the outer banks. During the Sunday evacuation the winds were still calm most of the day, starting to gust up in late afternoon. We had no weather issues in the process of leaving. Just traffic.

Ray Nagin is a serious contender for the title of the other thread about this, the "biggest asshole in America". I don't think you could find anyone in N'awlins left to defend him after he used the mayor's office to give the city the middle finger (not just for this but a lot of other crapola).

That said however, Sunday was the day everybody who had not already left was leaving, way before Ray Nagin went through the motions on TV. I would have gone Saturday night had I not been exhausted from all the hurry-up offense prep. So we didn't need (nor do I think anyone cared about) Ray Nagin's word in order to act.

Still, I'm not clear why all the obsession on the distinction of whether an evacuation was officially "mandatory" -- do people actually think citizens were sitting around going "well I dunno cher, let's wait an see what da mayor sez"? Nothing is effective until it comes from an official? Isn't this much like passing gun control laws and expecting violence just goes away because the official channels said they should?

unfortunately, it is human nature to say it won't hit me. I am a member of a hurricane board in which it is discussed all the time. I also live in a hurricane zone in which many will refuse to leave even when ordered simply because last time it didn't hit when they were told to evacuate, and then it does and they are shocked and wished they had. A few years ago they waited until the very last minute like with Katrina in New Orleans to issue evac orders, those people and the county were caught with their pants down.

They didn't "wait until the very last minute" -- believe me, New Orleanians are not new to hurricanes. The path of the storm was not established until at least Friday.

But as far as what it meant, no the Katrina-type event is what we all talked about for decades, regardless what time of the year -- "the Big One", just as we talk about the day California slips into the sea. And I'm sure when that happens the same Monday Morning quarterbacks will be here, yapping that they should have got out of there the week before...

Now we simply have a name for The Big One. But you can't evacuate people for what you don't know about yet.

how many ways are there out of New Orleans? How many people there did not have transporation? How many did not have the ways or means? How many people did they need to move quickly away from the area before anything did come inland? How long does it take to move those people, find them, get transporation to them and get them out? Much more time than was realistically allowed. If all those people had had their own transporation and tried to suddenly get out all at once, what type of botllenecking would there have been trying to move them? And many did not get out, obviously, even though they were used to hurricanes, as you say. Many were stubborn, many did not have someone leading them telling them what to do if they didn't have the ways and means. Unfortunately many required just that.

 

[Pogo]

unfortunately, it is human nature to say it won't hit me. I am a member of a hurricane board in which it is discussed all the time. I also live in a hurricane zone in which many will refuse to leave even when ordered simply because last time it didn't hit when they were told to evacuate, and then it does and they are shocked and wished they had. A few years ago they waited until the very last minute like with Katrina in New Orleans to issue evac orders, those people and the county were caught with their pants down.

They didn't "wait until the very last minute" -- believe me, New Orleanians are not new to hurricanes. The path of the storm was not established until at least Friday.

But as far as what it meant, no the Katrina-type event is what we all talked about for decades, regardless what time of the year -- "the Big One", just as we talk about the day California slips into the sea. And I'm sure when that happens the same Monday Morning quarterbacks will be here, yapping that they should have got out of there the week before...

Now we simply have a name for The Big One. But you can't evacuate people for what you don't know about yet.

how many ways are there out of New Orleans? How many people there did not have transporation? How many did not have the ways or means? How many people did they need to move quickly away from the area before anything did come inland? How long does it take to move those people, find them, get transporation to them and get them out? Much more time than was realistically allowed. If all those people had had their own transporation and tried to suddenly get out all at once, what type of botllenecking would there have been trying to move them? And many did not get out, obviously, even though they were used to hurricanes, as you say. Many were stubborn, many did not have someone leading them telling them what to do if they didn't have the ways and means. Unfortunately many required just that.

Because of the geography (surrounded by water) there is one way out. Two ways technically (east or west), but you can't go east because that's where Katrina is coming. So that leaves I-10 west, which was contraflowed by order of the Governor (all lanes/both sides going west)-- I believe that was done Saturday. But even with the contraflow, as you indicate we still sat in a parking lot of at least fifty miles, and by 'parking lot' I mean we could have walked faster.

I can't answer for how many people needed to be moved (several millions) or what their needs were. I had access to a car and made sure I took somebody who didn't. But that certainly doesn't apply to everybody.

That's in New Orleans, where public transit is nothing like it is in greater New York. In the latter I'm sure there are millions more who don't have cars since daily life doesn't require one.

 

[uscitizen]

Obviously it is all Obama's fault.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Yup, 10 days

In the 10 days after Hurricane Katrina made landfall in Louisiana, the Republican-controlled Congress approved two bills providing $62.3 billion in emergency funding, and President George W. Bush immediately signed them into law.

It has now been 60+ days and counting.

Can "unprecedented" be overused?

But you and the media were too busy to even notice at the time as they continually lambasted Bush over his response.

 

[Sallow]

Yup, 10 days

In the 10 days after Hurricane Katrina made landfall in Louisiana, the Republican-controlled Congress approved two bills providing $62.3 billion in emergency funding, and President George W. Bush immediately signed them into law.

It has now been 60+ days and counting.

Can "unprecedented" be overused?

He probably felt a tinge of guilt for letting people rot in flood waters..