Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,163
- 1,830
yes and you Dimocrats know all about lying. You also can't conceive of a person not belonging to the Repudlican or Dimocrat parties or in other words one who thinks for himself.
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A Strong Middle Class
- Thread starter rayboyusmc
- Start date
yes and you Dimocrats know all about lying. You also can't conceive of a person not belonging to the Repudlican or Dimocrat parties or in other words one who thinks for himself.
Againsheila
Gold Member
Look for the Union label etc....
They had a middle class in Germany and America long before there were Unions ditto. The time of Unions should have ended 30 years ago with the Yablonski Murders and then the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.
You can't have a Middle class without a lot of rich people. The more rich people you have the higher wages will rise as more and more people seek after the talents of the middle class.
You want to raise wages engage in activities that increase the formation of wealth. How does your boss give you a raise if the government is taking all his damn money?
Okay, I took both macro and micro economics and I don't understand your reasoning here. How does more rich people = more middle class. In fact, in the past 30 years, the middle class has been decreasing while the rich has been increasing and the poor has been increasing. The income gap now is as big if not bigger than it was in the gilded age. Do you remember the gilded age? It's what led to the great depression.
Country Corporate Individual Payroll tax VAT / GST / Sales Primary tax articles
Algeria[2] 30%+3% 0-40% 7/14/17%
Argentina 35% 9-35% 21% Taxation in Argentina
Australia[3] 30% 0-45% 10% (GST) Taxation in Australia
Income tax in Australia
Goods and Services Tax (Australia)
Austria 25% 21-50% 20% (GST)
Azerbaijan[2] 22% 0-35% 18%
Bangladesh[2] 0-40% 0-25% 4-15%
Barbados[4] 40% 25%-40% 15% (hotel accommodation 7.5%)
Belarus[2] 24% 12-30% 35% 10/18%
Belgium 33.99% 25-50% 21%
Brazil 34% 0-27.5% 31% 17-25%
Bulgaria 10% 10% 42.7% 20%
Burundi[5] 35% 35% N/A
Cameroon[2] 38.5% 10-35% 19.25%
Canada[6] 29.5-35.5% 15-29% (federal)
4-24% (provincial)
4.95% (CPP) 5% (GST)
0-10% (provincial sales taxes)
Taxation in Canada
Income taxes in Canada
Sales taxes in Canada
Goods and Services Tax (Canada)
Chile[7] 17% 0-40% 19%
China 25% 5-45% 17% Tax system in China
Colombia[2] 35% 0.29-38.5% 16% Taxation in Colombia
Croatia[2] 20% 15-45% 37.2%[8] 22%
Cuba[2] 30% 10-50% 12%
Cyprus 10% 20-30% 15%
Czech Republic 21% 15% 47.5% 19%
Denmark[9] 25% 0-63% 25% Taxation in Denmark
Egypt 20% 10-20% N/A
El Salvador 25% 0-25% 13%
Estonia 21% 21% 33% 18%
Finland 26% 9-32% national, 16-21% municipal 22%
17% (food and fodder)
8% (e.g. accommodation and culture)
France 33.33% 10-50% 45% 19.6%/5.5% on certain goods (e.g. food) Taxation in France
Germany 29.8% (average) 0-45% 19%/7% on certain goods (e.g. food) Taxation in Germany
Georgia[2] 20% 12% 18%
Gibraltar 33% 17-40% N/A
Greece 22/25% 0-40% 19%
Guatemala[2] 31% 15-31% 12%
Guyana[10] 35%/45% 33⅓% 16%/0%
Hong Kong[11] 16.5% 0-15% N/A 0% (for the time being) Taxation in Hong Kong
Goods and Services Tax (Hong Kong)
Hungary 16% 18% and 36% 50.5% 20%
Iceland[2] 18/26% 0-36.72%[12] 6% 0/14/24.5%
India 30-40% 10-30% 12.5% Taxation in India
Income tax in India
Indonesia 30% 5-35% 10% Taxation in Indonesia
Iran 25% 0-35% 0% Taxation in Iran
Ireland 12.5% 20-41% 16.75% 21% Taxation in Ireland
Corporation tax in Ireland
Israel 27% 10-47% 15.5%
Italy 33% 23-43% 20%
Japan 30% 5-40% 5% (consumption)
Jordan[2] 15/25/35% 5-30% 16% (GST)
South Korea[2] 13/25% 9%-21.375% + 36% excess 10%
Latvia 15% 25% 33% 18%
Lebanon[2] 15/4-21% 2-20% 10%
Lithuania 20% 21% 34% 19%
Luxembourg 29.63% 6-38.95% 15%
Malaysia[2] 28% 0-28% 5% GTS
Malta 35% 0-35% 18%
Mexico 28% 3-29% 15%
Monaco 33.33% 0% 19.6%
Montenegro 9% 15% 17%
Morocco 35% 0-41.5% 20%
Nepal N/A 10% to 25%[13] 13%[14]
Netherlands 25.5% 0-52% 19% (6% for essential and selected goods) Taxation in the Netherlands
Income tax in the Netherlands
New Zealand 30% 0-39% 12.5% (GST) Taxation in New Zealand
Goods and Services Tax (New Zealand)
Norway 28% 0-47.8% 14% 25% 14% for some goods
Pakistan 35% 7.5-35% 16%
Panama[2] 30% 0-27% 0/5%
Peru[2] 27% 15-27% 2/19% Taxation in Peru
Philippines 35% 5-32% 0 ; 7 ; 12%
(in some cases, foreign investors are zero-rated)
Poland 19% 18-32% 41.11% 22%, 7% (reduced rate on certain goods)
Portugal 27.5% 10.5-40% 20%
(reduced rates on certain goods -- 5% or 12%)
Romania 16% 16% 45.15% 19%
Russia 20% 13% 18%, 10% and 0%
(reduced rates are for certain goods)
Taxation in Russia
Saudi Arabia[15] 20%-85%
11% Social security Residents 2.5% Zakat
Non-residents 20% N/A
Senegal[2] 33% up to 50% 20%
Serbia 10% 10/14% 35.8%[16] 18%
Singapore 18% (17% as of FY 2010)[17] 3.5%-20% 7% (GST) Income tax in Singapore
Goods and Services Tax (Singapore)
Slovakia 19% 19% 19%
Slovenia 22% 16-41% 20%
South Africa 28%[18] 18-40% 14%
Spain 25-30% 0-42% 16%
Sweden 28%[19] 28.89%-59.09%[20][21] 32.42%[22] 25%. 12% and 6% for some goods.[23] Taxation in Sweden
Switzerland[2] 13-25% 0-13.2% (federal) 3.6/2.4/7.6% Taxation in Switzerland
Syria[2] 10-45% 5-15% Debuts in 2008
Republic of China 25% 6-40% 5%
Tanzania 30% 15%-30% Taxation in Tanzania
Thailand 30% 5-37% 7%
Tunisia[2] 30% 0-35% 6/12/18%
Turkey 20% 15-35% 18%
Ukraine[2] 25% 13%[24] 20%
United Arab Emirates[2] 0% 0% 0%
United Kingdom [25] 21-28% 0,20,40% 23.8% (National Insurance) 17.5% (Temporarily 15% until January 2010) Taxation in the UK
Value added tax
United States[26][27][28][29][30] 15-39% (federal)
0-12% (state) 0-35% (federal)
0-10.3% (state)
15.3% (federal) 0-10.25% (state and local) Taxation in the U.S.
Income taxes in the U.S.
Sales taxes in the U.S.
Uruguay[2] 30% ?-24.125% 23%
Uzbekistan[2] 12% 13-30% 10-20%
Venezuela[2] 15/22/34% 6-34% 8-10%/9%
Vietnam 28% 0-40% 10%
British Virgin Islands 0% 0% 10-14% 0% Taxation in the British Virgin Islands
Zambia 35% 10-30% 17.5%
The US' 33% corporate tax rate at the Federal level whcih doesn't include additional taxes at state and possibly local levels is amoing the hioghest in the world Higher than in France, Britain Australia and even sort of socialist Sweden. Only Italy among developed nations has a higher corporate tax rate than the US and they beat us by a whole 1/3 of 1%
Algeria[2] 30%+3% 0-40% 7/14/17%
Argentina 35% 9-35% 21% Taxation in Argentina
Australia[3] 30% 0-45% 10% (GST) Taxation in Australia
Income tax in Australia
Goods and Services Tax (Australia)
Austria 25% 21-50% 20% (GST)
Azerbaijan[2] 22% 0-35% 18%
Bangladesh[2] 0-40% 0-25% 4-15%
Barbados[4] 40% 25%-40% 15% (hotel accommodation 7.5%)
Belarus[2] 24% 12-30% 35% 10/18%
Belgium 33.99% 25-50% 21%
Brazil 34% 0-27.5% 31% 17-25%
Bulgaria 10% 10% 42.7% 20%
Burundi[5] 35% 35% N/A
Cameroon[2] 38.5% 10-35% 19.25%
Canada[6] 29.5-35.5% 15-29% (federal)
4-24% (provincial)
4.95% (CPP) 5% (GST)
0-10% (provincial sales taxes)
Taxation in Canada
Income taxes in Canada
Sales taxes in Canada
Goods and Services Tax (Canada)
Chile[7] 17% 0-40% 19%
China 25% 5-45% 17% Tax system in China
Colombia[2] 35% 0.29-38.5% 16% Taxation in Colombia
Croatia[2] 20% 15-45% 37.2%[8] 22%
Cuba[2] 30% 10-50% 12%
Cyprus 10% 20-30% 15%
Czech Republic 21% 15% 47.5% 19%
Denmark[9] 25% 0-63% 25% Taxation in Denmark
Egypt 20% 10-20% N/A
El Salvador 25% 0-25% 13%
Estonia 21% 21% 33% 18%
Finland 26% 9-32% national, 16-21% municipal 22%
17% (food and fodder)
8% (e.g. accommodation and culture)
France 33.33% 10-50% 45% 19.6%/5.5% on certain goods (e.g. food) Taxation in France
Germany 29.8% (average) 0-45% 19%/7% on certain goods (e.g. food) Taxation in Germany
Georgia[2] 20% 12% 18%
Gibraltar 33% 17-40% N/A
Greece 22/25% 0-40% 19%
Guatemala[2] 31% 15-31% 12%
Guyana[10] 35%/45% 33⅓% 16%/0%
Hong Kong[11] 16.5% 0-15% N/A 0% (for the time being) Taxation in Hong Kong
Goods and Services Tax (Hong Kong)
Hungary 16% 18% and 36% 50.5% 20%
Iceland[2] 18/26% 0-36.72%[12] 6% 0/14/24.5%
India 30-40% 10-30% 12.5% Taxation in India
Income tax in India
Indonesia 30% 5-35% 10% Taxation in Indonesia
Iran 25% 0-35% 0% Taxation in Iran
Ireland 12.5% 20-41% 16.75% 21% Taxation in Ireland
Corporation tax in Ireland
Israel 27% 10-47% 15.5%
Italy 33% 23-43% 20%
Japan 30% 5-40% 5% (consumption)
Jordan[2] 15/25/35% 5-30% 16% (GST)
South Korea[2] 13/25% 9%-21.375% + 36% excess 10%
Latvia 15% 25% 33% 18%
Lebanon[2] 15/4-21% 2-20% 10%
Lithuania 20% 21% 34% 19%
Luxembourg 29.63% 6-38.95% 15%
Malaysia[2] 28% 0-28% 5% GTS
Malta 35% 0-35% 18%
Mexico 28% 3-29% 15%
Monaco 33.33% 0% 19.6%
Montenegro 9% 15% 17%
Morocco 35% 0-41.5% 20%
Nepal N/A 10% to 25%[13] 13%[14]
Netherlands 25.5% 0-52% 19% (6% for essential and selected goods) Taxation in the Netherlands
Income tax in the Netherlands
New Zealand 30% 0-39% 12.5% (GST) Taxation in New Zealand
Goods and Services Tax (New Zealand)
Norway 28% 0-47.8% 14% 25% 14% for some goods
Pakistan 35% 7.5-35% 16%
Panama[2] 30% 0-27% 0/5%
Peru[2] 27% 15-27% 2/19% Taxation in Peru
Philippines 35% 5-32% 0 ; 7 ; 12%
(in some cases, foreign investors are zero-rated)
Poland 19% 18-32% 41.11% 22%, 7% (reduced rate on certain goods)
Portugal 27.5% 10.5-40% 20%
(reduced rates on certain goods -- 5% or 12%)
Romania 16% 16% 45.15% 19%
Russia 20% 13% 18%, 10% and 0%
(reduced rates are for certain goods)
Taxation in Russia
Saudi Arabia[15] 20%-85%
11% Social security Residents 2.5% Zakat
Non-residents 20% N/A
Senegal[2] 33% up to 50% 20%
Serbia 10% 10/14% 35.8%[16] 18%
Singapore 18% (17% as of FY 2010)[17] 3.5%-20% 7% (GST) Income tax in Singapore
Goods and Services Tax (Singapore)
Slovakia 19% 19% 19%
Slovenia 22% 16-41% 20%
South Africa 28%[18] 18-40% 14%
Spain 25-30% 0-42% 16%
Sweden 28%[19] 28.89%-59.09%[20][21] 32.42%[22] 25%. 12% and 6% for some goods.[23] Taxation in Sweden
Switzerland[2] 13-25% 0-13.2% (federal) 3.6/2.4/7.6% Taxation in Switzerland
Syria[2] 10-45% 5-15% Debuts in 2008
Republic of China 25% 6-40% 5%
Tanzania 30% 15%-30% Taxation in Tanzania
Thailand 30% 5-37% 7%
Tunisia[2] 30% 0-35% 6/12/18%
Turkey 20% 15-35% 18%
Ukraine[2] 25% 13%[24] 20%
United Arab Emirates[2] 0% 0% 0%
United Kingdom [25] 21-28% 0,20,40% 23.8% (National Insurance) 17.5% (Temporarily 15% until January 2010) Taxation in the UK
Value added tax
United States[26][27][28][29][30] 15-39% (federal)
0-12% (state) 0-35% (federal)
0-10.3% (state)
15.3% (federal) 0-10.25% (state and local) Taxation in the U.S.
Income taxes in the U.S.
Sales taxes in the U.S.
Uruguay[2] 30% ?-24.125% 23%
Uzbekistan[2] 12% 13-30% 10-20%
Venezuela[2] 15/22/34% 6-34% 8-10%/9%
Vietnam 28% 0-40% 10%
British Virgin Islands 0% 0% 10-14% 0% Taxation in the British Virgin Islands
Zambia 35% 10-30% 17.5%
The US' 33% corporate tax rate at the Federal level whcih doesn't include additional taxes at state and possibly local levels is amoing the hioghest in the world Higher than in France, Britain Australia and even sort of socialist Sweden. Only Italy among developed nations has a higher corporate tax rate than the US and they beat us by a whole 1/3 of 1%
Gunny
Gold Member
"We need to level the playing field for workers and the unions that represent their interests," Obama said during a signing ceremony in the East Room of the White House.
"I do not view the labor movement as part of the problem. To me, it's part of the solution," he said. "You cannot have a strong middle class without a strong labor movement."
Obama touts middle-class task force led by Biden - Yahoo! News
pretty edgy, coming out in favor of the middle class and unions.
Gunny
Gold Member
Jeez ... after reading Doeton, Rayboy and Sillybooboo for 3 pages I need to go scrub my skull. You trying to revive the 3 Stooges, or what?
To go along with your economics classes you should have taken one in Logic. Who pays middle class salaries? Does not the law of supply and demand effect labor as well as everyhting else? Where are all those new rich coming from? Answer the Middle class. Why? US median yearly income is 44k. People with highly marketable skills and a willingness to work are getting paid better and better to do what they do.
Who belongs to the middle class. Define middle calss.
Who belongs to the middle class. Define middle calss.
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #47
The labor movement has been a small minority of the middle class for the last century. And we are now supposed to just accept the false premise that it's essential for a strong middle class? Nonsense. America has survived quite nicely without a strong labor movement. In fact, its precisely because it wasnt strong that we have become strong.
rayboyusmc
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #48
Gunny, Don't need the three stooges, we have enough of them on the right already or is it Scrooges?-
Bullshit. You can have a strong middle class by itself. The point is, it is the not the rich that make the economy flourish. It is a strong healthy middle class. The current rich people are taking your fucking taxes in the bailout. That really makes you rich.
Skull, what's you fixation on Biden? You brought him up and now have a problem that he's not a millionaire. Not everyone has your same ambition about money.
As for being a role model, he is the vice president. Sort of beats most people in the level of job achieved.
I love to listen to middle class posters attack the middle class and suck up to the concept of the rich leading US. They were more honest in earlier times.
No bullshit about trickle down - Honest with the horse and the sparrow.
I guess there are still a fair number of middle class conservatives who are happy picking the oats out of the horseshit and thankful for that.
You can't have a Middle class without a lot of rich people. The more rich people you have the higher wages will rise as more and more people seek after the talents of the middle class.
Bullshit. You can have a strong middle class by itself. The point is, it is the not the rich that make the economy flourish. It is a strong healthy middle class. The current rich people are taking your fucking taxes in the bailout. That really makes you rich.
Skull, what's you fixation on Biden? You brought him up and now have a problem that he's not a millionaire. Not everyone has your same ambition about money.
As for being a role model, he is the vice president. Sort of beats most people in the level of job achieved.
I love to listen to middle class posters attack the middle class and suck up to the concept of the rich leading US. They were more honest in earlier times.
No bullshit about trickle down - Honest with the horse and the sparrow.
I guess there are still a fair number of middle class conservatives who are happy picking the oats out of the horseshit and thankful for that.
rayboyusmc
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #49
People with highly marketable skills and a willingness to work are getting paid better and better to do what they do.
Wages have consistently gone down while productivity has gone up. Do you work at the fucking kool aid factory?
Manufacturing Productivity up 4.1% Per Hour Yr/Yr
But Real Wages Down -1.8% Per Hour Yr/Yr
But CEOs (rich people) wages have gone up:
In 2005, the average CEO in the United States earned 262 times the pay of the average worker, the second-highest level of this ratio in the 40 years for which there are data. In 2005, a CEO earned more in one workday (there are 260 in a year) than an average worker earned in 52 weeks.
EAt the frigging oats gary
"We need to level the playing field for workers and the unions that represent their interests," Obama said during a signing ceremony in the East Room of the White House.
"I do not view the labor movement as part of the problem. To me, it's part of the solution," he said. "You cannot have a strong middle class without a strong labor movement."
Obama touts middle-class task force led by Biden - Yahoo! News
It takes jobs to keep the middle class strong. By having the highest corporate tax rate on this planet at 35%, is now killing the middle class. It's no wonder we have corporations whom have gone overseas to set up business.
Before there is a union--there must be a job to go to. Let's not get the horse before the cart.
Last edited:
del
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #51
pretty edgy, coming out in favor of the middle class and unions.
Given how happily people have been trashing the unions and the middle class that developed because of them, it actually is pretty edgy.
save the polemics.
there's nothing edgy about any pol coming out for unions or the middle class, and unions didn't cause the middle class.
i can make a much better argument that henry ford created the middle class than the UAW.
People with highly marketable skills and a willingness to work are getting paid better and better to do what they do.
Wages have consistently gone down while productivity has gone up. Do you work at the fucking kool aid factory?
Manufacturing Productivity up 4.1% Per Hour Yr/Yr
But Real Wages Down -1.8% Per Hour Yr/Yr
But CEOs (rich people) wages have gone up:
In 2005, the average CEO in the United States earned 262 times the pay of the average worker, the second-highest level of this ratio in the 40 years for which there are data. In 2005, a CEO earned more in one workday (there are 260 in a year) than an average worker earned in 52 weeks.
EAt the frigging oats gary
What about the small business people of this country who employ the overwhelming majority of this country? Their wages have not gone up--but their risk sure has. I think you are referring to the wall street crowd in those figures & not the everyday auto shop, construction company, small retailer or restaurant/cafe owner?
Don't get confused by the news media. Believe me, small business people who employ, who take risks don't get golden parachutes or huge bonuses. I know I am one of them. They're lucky if they can pay their monthly bills. One month they made be in red ink, the next black--but the overwhelming majority of them are in no way "rich".
Without small business in this country there would be no jobs. Too much union would break the backs of small business people.
Last edited:
Againsheila
Gold Member
The labor movement has been a small minority of the middle class for the last century. And we are now supposed to just accept the false premise that it's essential for a strong middle class? Nonsense. America has survived quite nicely without a strong labor movement. In fact, its precisely because it wasnt strong that we have become strong.
How old are you? What are they teaching in school today? Before Unions there was no middle class. There were 6 day weeks, 12 hour or more days. Children worked those hours as well. Women were put up in dorms and if they dared to date someone, they were fired. We had those same workhouses that are so prevalent in 3rd world countries today. If someone got hurt on the job and couldn't come back the next day, they were often fired..no pension, no medical, no severance pay.
It was the labor movement that brought us all those improvements and it's the dismantling of the labor movement that's taking them away.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I talked with a college senior on Dec 7 and he had no idea the significance of the day.
Last edited:
KittenKoder
Senior Member
The labor movement has been a small minority of the middle class for the last century. And we are now supposed to just accept the false premise that it's essential for a strong middle class? Nonsense. America has survived quite nicely without a strong labor movement. In fact, its precisely because it wasnt strong that we have become strong.
How old are you? What are they teaching in school today? Before Unions there was no middle class. There were 6 day weeks, 12 hour or more days. Children worked those hours as well. Women were put up in dorms and if they dared to date someone, they were fired. We had those same workhouses that are so prevalent in 3rd world countries today. If someone got hurt on the job and couldn't come back the next day, they were often fired..no pension, no medical, no severance pay.
It was the labor movement that brought us all those improvements and it's the dismantling of the labor movement that's taking them away.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I talked with a college senior on Dec 7 and he had no idea the significance of the day.
The problem is you talked to a 'higher educated' person.
In reality, without laborers the economy doesn't exist. The rich cannot power an economy if it doesn't produce something worth selling.
indago
VIP Member
- Oct 27, 2007
- 1,114
- 109
- 85
90% of the people control 4% of the wealth.
And, 4% of the wealth controls 90% of the people
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