CDZ A science based discussion concerning climate change

[Boston1]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

 

[ScienceRocks]

What do you think about solar with storage like set-up?

me, I believe there's some climate change and that humanity would be better off getting off of coal.

 

[Boston1]

What do you think about solar with storage like set-up?

me, I believe there's some climate change and that humanity would be better off getting off of coal.

Solar is a good option, but the manufacture of solar panels does pose some pollution risks and comes with some small carbon footprint of its own. But all in all I like solar.

My own set up is a DIY VAWT type using wind blue products but its not even remotely done yet

 

[Steven_R]

Of course climate change is real and has been as long as there has been a climate. It's not static and never has been.

The question is how much of the current change is natural and how much is anthropogenic.
Which begs the question just how to reverse our damage without destroying our economies and just how long will it take? Remember, we don't want nukes, wind and solar aren't paying off, fossil fuels are evil, and geothermal and hydroelectric aren't available everywhere. Just what will we move to without sacrificing modern electrical needs because telling the public we will have mandatory blackouts will be a hard sell.

 

[Boston1]

Of course climate change is real and has been as long as there has been a climate. It's not static and never has been.

The question is how much of the current change is natural and how much is anthropogenic.
Which begs the question just how to reverse our damage without destroying our economies and just how long will it take? Remember, we don't want nukes, wind and solar aren't paying off, fossil fuels are evil, and geothermal and hydroelectric aren't available everywhere. Just what will we move to without sacrificing modern electrical needs because telling the public we will have mandatory blackouts will be a hard sell.

Firstly, thank you for your post. secondly, forgive me if I disagree with a few points and clarify a few others.

While climate is not stable the tyspe of climate change we see today as compared to the paleo climate record is considerably different than what has been seen in the past.

The question of how much of todays climate shift can be attributed to mans activities is actually an easy one. Nearly all of it.

What it boils down to is that since the advent of the industrial age mankind has been burning fossil fuels as fast as we can dig them up. While a stable oscillation within the carbon temp system of the planet is easily observed in the paleoclimate record what time frames within the industrial age show is the expected result in burning fossil carbon reserves. An increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

Warming at predicted levels to carbon increases has occurred in the industrial age ( see Arrhenius )

The fact that nearly all of the excess carbon in the atmosphere is attributable to mans activities is very well knows but I can understand the question as the science is somewhat advanced.

How to reverse the problems with respect to how it effects our economies is a political question this particular thread isn't really designed to address

Wind and solar are paying off quite well. I'm not sure what data leads you to believe otherwise but I am curious

 

[Wyatt earp]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Ok I have a few questions

What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?



.

 

[Boston1]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Ok I have a few questions

What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?



.

LOL, what makes you think its has an ideal temperature ?

Also there is the concept of carbon neutral. Do you know what the term carbon neutral means ?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Ok I have a few questions

What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?



.

LOL, what makes you think its has an ideal temperature ?

Also there is the concept of carbon neutral. Do you know what the term carbon neutral means ?

I asked two simple questions like you asked and I get two non answers...

So I will ask you again two simple questions:


What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?


Please and thank you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Can you please show us a single repeatable lab experiment that controls for tiny increments of CO2 between 280 and 400PPM?

Just one experiment

 

[saveliberty]

Why no focus on methane as a contributor to warming?

 

[Boston1]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Ok I have a few questions

What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?



.

LOL, what makes you think its has an ideal temperature ?

Also there is the concept of carbon neutral. Do you know what the term carbon neutral means ?

I asked two simple questions like you asked and I get two non answers...

So I will ask you again two simple questions:


What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?


Please and thank you.

An answer, might be best given in the form of a conversation ;-))

I was curious why you thought the earth had some single ideal temperature. It would help me to understand just what you do and don't know about this issue.

I also asked about your knowledge of carbon budgeting as it would also help me understand what you do and don't know about this issue.

Seemed like a reasonable place to start

 

[Boston1]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Can you please show us a single repeatable lab experiment that controls for tiny increments of CO2 between 280 and 400PPM?

Just one experiment

About 125 years ago a guy named Arrhenius conducted a number of laboratory experiments to determine the exact forcing potential of CO2. I could try and look them up for you. Of course there have been a number of others if they might suffice

 

[Boston1]

Why no focus on methane as a contributor to warming?

Methane is the knife at our throat

 

[leftwinger]

Atmosphere is ~0.04% CO2. Is that AFTER 50 years of burning OIL?

 

[leftwinger]

seems odd "they" say CO2 blocks reflected sun rays from earth surface. But CO2 does not block incoming sun rays? huh?

 

[leftwinger]

CO2 is such small percentage of Atmospheic makeup it would seem to be meaningless? And its' effect is localized (Bejing, India etc.) It dissipates, blows away, escapes, up up and away? Why do "they" say whole Earth face Global Warming if the problem areas are known and visibly polluted?

 

[Boston1]

Atmosphere is ~0.04% CO2. Is that AFTER 50 years of burning OIL?

Yes atmospheric CO2 is a rather small percentage however it is THE MAIN GREENHOUSE GAS IN OUR ATMOSPHERE. Or it was until surpassed most recently by CH4.

Although, if you want to understand atmospheric gas concentrations we are going to have to agree on the standard unit of measure, which is PPM in the case of CO2

 

[Boston1]

seems odd "they" say CO2 blocks reflected sun rays from earth surface. But CO2 does not block incoming sun rays? huh?

Thats because you may not be aware of both long and short wave radiation. A greenhouse gas is such because it is of the right size and shape that it reflects a very specific type of radiation or frequency. The frequency of radiation that enters the atmosphere from the sun is different than the frequency of radiation that reflects from the earths surface

 

[Boston1]

CO2 is such small percentage of Atmospheic makeup it would seem to be meaningless? And its' effect is localized (Bejing, India etc.) It dissipates, blows away, escapes, up up and away? Why do "they" say whole Earth face Global Warming if the problem areas are known and visibly polluted?

A brief lesson in the ideal gas laws would help clarify why CO2 mixes so well in the atmosphere


Ideal gases and the ideal gas law: pV = nRT - Chemguide

From there I'm sure you can agree that gasses disperse relatively quickly. Also the measurement system for CO2 isn't all that different from the measurement systems for temp in that the data for each is usually collected within the same stations placed in the same locations.

Variations in multiple isolated locations vary by only a few ppm per instrument. Ergo localized conditions are either slight variations in the average or the calibration or accuracy of the instrument data is weighted inacurately.

Locations at source points may reflect higher readings without being indicative of the average.

 

[Boston1]

I like the idea of a Clean Debate Zone.

I'm not a climate scientist but I do have a pretty good handle on the concepts surrounding climate change.

If you have any questions or have any answers, have at it.

My personal take is that climate change is very real and poses a very real threat to the future of not only mankind but a significant portion of life on earth.

Personally I run my vehicles on biodiesel, my home on wood pellets. I'm working on getting off the elec grid and I try and be responsible with what materials I purchase.

Its not much, but every little bit helps

Ok I have a few questions

What is the earths temperture supposed to be?

Do you think using bio diesel and burning wood chips contribuate less C02 into the atmosphere?



.

You asked what the earths temperature supposed to be. So i asked what makes you think its supposed to be one specific temperature.

I'm curious what you know about the variations within say diurnal cycles or yearly cycles, Atlantic Oscilations, Milankovitch cycles.

Without knowing where you understanding sits, its kinda hard to know where to begin on that kinda question. Best thing is for you to explain why you think the earth should have a particular average temp.