A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[logical4u]

so what gives you the moral authority to judge what kind of sex is corrupt and what is not?
you can knock off the moralizing any time...

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Therefore you would be in favor of sterile hetrosexuals being barred from marriage?

Let's stick with the OBVIOUS, two people of the same sex, cannot produce children, together. Tracking "sterile" heterosexuals would be like making abortion illegal: expensive to monitor, and wide open for abuse.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

 

[daws101]

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

bump

 

[logical4u]

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

from another thread
"Gadawg
You were saying...


Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadawg73
8,934 posts here in thelast few years on gay marriage.
Not one to date that has any evidence whatsoever any negative effects to heterosexual marriage.
Gays are getting married now.
How has it affected ANYONE?
Gay marriage=non issue. Waste of time.
I guess that is because you choose to ignore the truth. The first article is about domestic violence in homosexual relationships. Usually, when "couples" are violent, similar acts of violence are targeted towards the children....

Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence - Conservapedia
In regards to homosexual couples and domestic violence, studies indicate that as a whole homosexual couples have higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual couples. In addition, studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[2] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[3] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: "Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."[3]

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexual couples:



“

Domestic abuse is under-reported in the gay community...
Male-on-male same-sex domestic violence also has been reported in couples where one or both persons are HIV-positive. Intimate partner abuse and violence include humiliation, threatening to disclose HIV status, withholding HIV therapy, and harming family members or pets.[4]

”


In 2000, the New York Times in an article entitled Silence Ending About Abuse in Gay Relationships cites some information which may indicate that domestic abuse may be under-reported in the homosexual community.[5] The New York Times article states the following:


“

But the issue of gay domestic abuse has been shrouded by silence until recently...
For years, gay people have tried to keep quiet about the problem, said Dave Shannon, coordinator of the violence recovery program at Fenway Community Health, a gay and lesbian clinic in Boston.

Mr. Shannon said: People feel, 'Why should we air our dirty laundry? People feel so negatively about us already, the last thing we should do is contribute to negative stereotypes of us.' [5]”


Studies
The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater."[6]
Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [7]
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Domestic Abuse Fact Sheet states that "11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner".[8]
A study published in The Journal of Family Violence reported among its participants that "Emotional abuse was reported by 83%" of its participants.[7]
A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse. [9]
A 1985 study of 1109 lesbians by Gwat-Yong Lie and Sabrina Gentlewarrier reported that slightly more than half of the respondents indicated that they had been abused by a female partner.[10]
Coleman, in a 1990 study of 90 lesbians reported that 46.6% had experienced repeated acts of violence.[11]
A study of 113 lesbians reported (1994) that 41% said they had been abused in one or more relationships.[12]
In their book, Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence (1991), Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[13]
The Journal of Social Service Research reported in 1991 that survey of 1,099 lesbians showed that slightly more than 50 percent of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner, "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse." [14]
A study of lesbian couples reported (2000) in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[15]

Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online A gay couple who adopted nine boys have been accused of sexually assaulting two of the children.

Read more: Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online

A DUTCH man accused of sexually abusing more than 60 children was “married” to his homosexual lover. Under American law, this man would be able to adopt children or obtain children through surrogates and raise them in his home. How long before we see children subjected to a lifetime of abuse by their adoptive homosexual parents? Heterosexual men commit sexual abuse too, but they do not have the same rate of sexual perversion against the young. The Thinking Housewife › “Married” Pedophile Accused of Abusing More than 60 Children

BY DOUG PATTON, Conservative viewpoint

All who continue to deny the dire warnings concerning the freak show that awaits our culture at the bottom of the slippery slope called "gay rights" need only contemplate the story of 11-year-old Thomas Lobel.

Thomas is being raised in San Francisco (of course) by two lesbians, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, who claim they were "married" by a rabbi in some sort of ceremony back in 1990. They adopted Thomas when he was 2 years old.

Because he has a speech impediment, Thomas learned sign language at an early age. According to his two "mothers," he told them in sign language — at age 3, mind you — that he was a girl. On the strength of that assertion — from a 3-year-old! — Moreno and Lobel made a gigantic leap and assumed it must be true. Thomas, they concluded, must be what is euphemistically referred to these days as "transgendered." You know, transgendered, like "Chaz" Bono, Sonny and Cher's little girl-turned-lesbian-turned-boy-turned-who-knows-what-next.

So, this troubled little boy, Thomas Lobel (whom the only parents he has ever known now call "Tammy"), confused and withdrawn because of his handicap, was brainwashed into believing something he couldn't possibly understand yet.

Four years ago, when Thomas was 7, psychiatrists "diagnosed" him with "gender identity disorder." By age 8, with ongoing encouragement from his two lesbian parents, he was supposedly "transitioning," whatever that means.

But this story gets worse. Much, much worse.

This summer, aided and abetted by a medical establishment that no longer has any moral or cultural moorings, these two deviants started the hideous process of "gender reassignment" on poor Thomas, now 11, in order to suppress the onset of his male puberty and physically turn him into a girl! This "therapy" includes a hormone-suppressant, which is implanted in his upper left arm to prevent him from developing naturally into the boy God intended him to be. It will suppress the growth of facial hair, the natural deepening of his voice and the broadening of his shoulders.

Thomas will remain a pre-pubescent boy until he and his "mothers" decide whether he should transition to an adult female. In order to do that, he will have to take female hormones, which will raise his voice, allow him to grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics. Lastly, of course, is the decision to have sex-change surgery.

San Francisco is one of only four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for "transgender children." The others are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health.

Such an innocuous sounding name.

There is virtually no chance that this poor, bewildered boy will "decide" to do anything other than to allow himself to be manipulated and mutilated by these domineering women in his life. They, along with the so-called doctors who condone and facilitate this perversion, should be prosecuted for child abuse.

What will these two decide to convince their son to become next? A dog? A cat? A fencepost? A lesbian? What was wrong with him being a boy? That's how he was born. That's what he was supposed to be.

"Everybody was angry with us," Moreno says. "They all said, 'How could you be doing this? You might be ruining his whole life!'" She says she and her partner have faced intense criticism from both friends and family.

What they should be facing is a judge and jury. Instead, we have criminal child abuse being validated by our psychiatric community and our legal system. It may not be popular to say so, but this is the stagnant social cesspool that results from embracing deviancy.

In the blink of an eye we have gone from unthinkable to the new normal.

Lesbian couple guilty of criminal child abuse | Hernando Today

Exposure to a plethora of pernicious elements that often plague the homosexual lifestyle left Dawn feeling “outraged at the incidences of same-sex domestic abuse, sexual advances toward minors, and loss of sexual partners as if people were only commodities.”


“From a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Sado-masochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”
The Effects of Gay Marriage on Children | This is Marriage

Timothy J. Dailey Ph.D. -- Homosexual Parenting: Placing children at risk

Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenmore women each sentenced to 30 years

Two Kenmore women accused of abusing their six children were sentenced to 30 years in prison each this afternoon.

Mary Rowles, 31, the mother of the six children, and her lesbian partner, Alice Jenkins, 28, could have received more than 100 years each from Summit County Common Pleas Judge Patricia Cosgrove.

In October, the women pleaded guilty to an entire 55-count indictment alleging kidnapping, child endangering, felonious assault and other charges involving the children, now ages 7 to 15.

Rowles' five sons allege they were locked in dark closets, deprived of food, forced to eat feces and were mentally and physically abused for a year or more. Rowles' 12-year-old daughter was not subjected to the same abuse, police said, but is included as a victim because of her presence in the home. Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy

Posted on December 1, 2007


For some reason, when I read about this I though of a recent post over on Feminist Critics:


Seven-year-old Sean Gibson was found earlier this month wandering in a parking lot by employees of Westgate Resorts in Kissimee, Florida. He was out late by himself and begging for food at a buffet. The poor kid only weighed 37 pounds. They called authories who took him to the hospital.

Now domestic partners Suzette Stevenson, 45, and Jamie Lynn Martin, 26, have been charged with aggravated child abuse.

Fair warning, the torture these women subjected this boy to is rather graphic:


The boy, who is not a biological child to either woman, was allegedly tied by his wrists and made to stand in an upright position for hours at a time, forced to drink shampoo, was burned with cigarettes and had to urinate and defecate in a closet, according the Baker County Sheriff’s Office documents.

—-

Instead, the two women allegedly threatened him with a box cutter and left him in a car, drugged with some type of adult sleeping pill, as they tried to collect $100 in a real estate promotion awarded to anyone who visited a timeshare open house.

And here:


The staff at Celebration was appalled when the extent of Sean’s abuse became apparent.

They amputated the big toe of his left foot, one of two that had been broken by bending. Other injuries include rope burns on his wrists from where he was left hanging by his arms from two large wall lights at the trailer.

“He had burns on the sides of his ears, and they believe those came from being dragged across carpets,” said the investigator. “The doctor initially called him ‘walking death’ and indicated he may have damage to internal organs from repeated kicking.”

Sean’s head was covered in bruises and knots believed to be from blows by fists, hands or other objects.

The one thing about this is that at numerous point people had the opportunity to intervene. At the daycare someone should have noticed. The fact that this boy was pulled out of school should have been a red flag. Or maybe someone could have bothered to verify the fake birth certificate these women had. The social service system was designed to address situations like this, but at every point that someone had a chance to step in no one did a thing. In the end it was the boy had to save himself.

One other element about this stands out. These two women were torturing this boy for apparently no reason at all. That just does not fit with the general profile of abusers. There is always reason, no matter how ridiculous it may be. Given that, I cannot say that the torture was not mitigated by these women’s general attitude towards males as a result of their sexual orientation. That is not to say that being lesbians caused them to be abusive, but there seem to be a propensity for lesbians who abuse children to specifically target boys. Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy | Toy Soldiers


To be honest, I quit looking at this point. I was looking for a case, I believe out of CA where a lesbian couple abuse a young girl (she had cigarette burns), and other scars of abuse. I have noticed when those cases "make" the news, they are only posted for a short while, and get no where near the attention that other abuse cases get."

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

from another thread
"Gadawg
You were saying...


Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadawg73
8,934 posts here in thelast few years on gay marriage.
Not one to date that has any evidence whatsoever any negative effects to heterosexual marriage.
Gays are getting married now.
How has it affected ANYONE?
Gay marriage=non issue. Waste of time.
I guess that is because you choose to ignore the truth. The first article is about domestic violence in homosexual relationships. Usually, when "couples" are violent, similar acts of violence are targeted towards the children....

Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence - Conservapedia
In regards to homosexual couples and domestic violence, studies indicate that as a whole homosexual couples have higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual couples. In addition, studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[2] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[3] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: "Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."[3]

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexual couples:



“

Domestic abuse is under-reported in the gay community...
Male-on-male same-sex domestic violence also has been reported in couples where one or both persons are HIV-positive. Intimate partner abuse and violence include humiliation, threatening to disclose HIV status, withholding HIV therapy, and harming family members or pets.[4]

”


In 2000, the New York Times in an article entitled Silence Ending About Abuse in Gay Relationships cites some information which may indicate that domestic abuse may be under-reported in the homosexual community.[5] The New York Times article states the following:


“

But the issue of gay domestic abuse has been shrouded by silence until recently...
For years, gay people have tried to keep quiet about the problem, said Dave Shannon, coordinator of the violence recovery program at Fenway Community Health, a gay and lesbian clinic in Boston.

Mr. Shannon said: People feel, 'Why should we air our dirty laundry? People feel so negatively about us already, the last thing we should do is contribute to negative stereotypes of us.' [5]”


Studies
The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater."[6]
Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [7]
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Domestic Abuse Fact Sheet states that "11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner".[8]
A study published in The Journal of Family Violence reported among its participants that "Emotional abuse was reported by 83%" of its participants.[7]
A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse. [9]
A 1985 study of 1109 lesbians by Gwat-Yong Lie and Sabrina Gentlewarrier reported that slightly more than half of the respondents indicated that they had been abused by a female partner.[10]
Coleman, in a 1990 study of 90 lesbians reported that 46.6% had experienced repeated acts of violence.[11]
A study of 113 lesbians reported (1994) that 41% said they had been abused in one or more relationships.[12]
In their book, Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence (1991), Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[13]
The Journal of Social Service Research reported in 1991 that survey of 1,099 lesbians showed that slightly more than 50 percent of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner, "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse." [14]
A study of lesbian couples reported (2000) in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[15]

Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online A gay couple who adopted nine boys have been accused of sexually assaulting two of the children.

Read more: Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online

A DUTCH man accused of sexually abusing more than 60 children was “married” to his homosexual lover. Under American law, this man would be able to adopt children or obtain children through surrogates and raise them in his home. How long before we see children subjected to a lifetime of abuse by their adoptive homosexual parents? Heterosexual men commit sexual abuse too, but they do not have the same rate of sexual perversion against the young. The Thinking Housewife › “Married” Pedophile Accused of Abusing More than 60 Children

BY DOUG PATTON, Conservative viewpoint

All who continue to deny the dire warnings concerning the freak show that awaits our culture at the bottom of the slippery slope called "gay rights" need only contemplate the story of 11-year-old Thomas Lobel.

Thomas is being raised in San Francisco (of course) by two lesbians, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, who claim they were "married" by a rabbi in some sort of ceremony back in 1990. They adopted Thomas when he was 2 years old.

Because he has a speech impediment, Thomas learned sign language at an early age. According to his two "mothers," he told them in sign language — at age 3, mind you — that he was a girl. On the strength of that assertion — from a 3-year-old! — Moreno and Lobel made a gigantic leap and assumed it must be true. Thomas, they concluded, must be what is euphemistically referred to these days as "transgendered." You know, transgendered, like "Chaz" Bono, Sonny and Cher's little girl-turned-lesbian-turned-boy-turned-who-knows-what-next.

So, this troubled little boy, Thomas Lobel (whom the only parents he has ever known now call "Tammy"), confused and withdrawn because of his handicap, was brainwashed into believing something he couldn't possibly understand yet.

Four years ago, when Thomas was 7, psychiatrists "diagnosed" him with "gender identity disorder." By age 8, with ongoing encouragement from his two lesbian parents, he was supposedly "transitioning," whatever that means.

But this story gets worse. Much, much worse.

This summer, aided and abetted by a medical establishment that no longer has any moral or cultural moorings, these two deviants started the hideous process of "gender reassignment" on poor Thomas, now 11, in order to suppress the onset of his male puberty and physically turn him into a girl! This "therapy" includes a hormone-suppressant, which is implanted in his upper left arm to prevent him from developing naturally into the boy God intended him to be. It will suppress the growth of facial hair, the natural deepening of his voice and the broadening of his shoulders.

Thomas will remain a pre-pubescent boy until he and his "mothers" decide whether he should transition to an adult female. In order to do that, he will have to take female hormones, which will raise his voice, allow him to grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics. Lastly, of course, is the decision to have sex-change surgery.

San Francisco is one of only four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for "transgender children." The others are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health.

Such an innocuous sounding name.

There is virtually no chance that this poor, bewildered boy will "decide" to do anything other than to allow himself to be manipulated and mutilated by these domineering women in his life. They, along with the so-called doctors who condone and facilitate this perversion, should be prosecuted for child abuse.

What will these two decide to convince their son to become next? A dog? A cat? A fencepost? A lesbian? What was wrong with him being a boy? That's how he was born. That's what he was supposed to be.

"Everybody was angry with us," Moreno says. "They all said, 'How could you be doing this? You might be ruining his whole life!'" She says she and her partner have faced intense criticism from both friends and family.

What they should be facing is a judge and jury. Instead, we have criminal child abuse being validated by our psychiatric community and our legal system. It may not be popular to say so, but this is the stagnant social cesspool that results from embracing deviancy.

In the blink of an eye we have gone from unthinkable to the new normal.

Lesbian couple guilty of criminal child abuse | Hernando Today

Exposure to a plethora of pernicious elements that often plague the homosexual lifestyle left Dawn feeling “outraged at the incidences of same-sex domestic abuse, sexual advances toward minors, and loss of sexual partners as if people were only commodities.”


“From a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Sado-masochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”
The Effects of Gay Marriage on Children | This is Marriage

Timothy J. Dailey Ph.D. -- Homosexual Parenting: Placing children at risk

Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenmore women each sentenced to 30 years

Two Kenmore women accused of abusing their six children were sentenced to 30 years in prison each this afternoon.

Mary Rowles, 31, the mother of the six children, and her lesbian partner, Alice Jenkins, 28, could have received more than 100 years each from Summit County Common Pleas Judge Patricia Cosgrove.

In October, the women pleaded guilty to an entire 55-count indictment alleging kidnapping, child endangering, felonious assault and other charges involving the children, now ages 7 to 15.

Rowles' five sons allege they were locked in dark closets, deprived of food, forced to eat feces and were mentally and physically abused for a year or more. Rowles' 12-year-old daughter was not subjected to the same abuse, police said, but is included as a victim because of her presence in the home. Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy

Posted on December 1, 2007


For some reason, when I read about this I though of a recent post over on Feminist Critics:


Seven-year-old Sean Gibson was found earlier this month wandering in a parking lot by employees of Westgate Resorts in Kissimee, Florida. He was out late by himself and begging for food at a buffet. The poor kid only weighed 37 pounds. They called authories who took him to the hospital.

Now domestic partners Suzette Stevenson, 45, and Jamie Lynn Martin, 26, have been charged with aggravated child abuse.

Fair warning, the torture these women subjected this boy to is rather graphic:


The boy, who is not a biological child to either woman, was allegedly tied by his wrists and made to stand in an upright position for hours at a time, forced to drink shampoo, was burned with cigarettes and had to urinate and defecate in a closet, according the Baker County Sheriff’s Office documents.

—-

Instead, the two women allegedly threatened him with a box cutter and left him in a car, drugged with some type of adult sleeping pill, as they tried to collect $100 in a real estate promotion awarded to anyone who visited a timeshare open house.

And here:


The staff at Celebration was appalled when the extent of Sean’s abuse became apparent.

They amputated the big toe of his left foot, one of two that had been broken by bending. Other injuries include rope burns on his wrists from where he was left hanging by his arms from two large wall lights at the trailer.

“He had burns on the sides of his ears, and they believe those came from being dragged across carpets,” said the investigator. “The doctor initially called him ‘walking death’ and indicated he may have damage to internal organs from repeated kicking.”

Sean’s head was covered in bruises and knots believed to be from blows by fists, hands or other objects.

The one thing about this is that at numerous point people had the opportunity to intervene. At the daycare someone should have noticed. The fact that this boy was pulled out of school should have been a red flag. Or maybe someone could have bothered to verify the fake birth certificate these women had. The social service system was designed to address situations like this, but at every point that someone had a chance to step in no one did a thing. In the end it was the boy had to save himself.

One other element about this stands out. These two women were torturing this boy for apparently no reason at all. That just does not fit with the general profile of abusers. There is always reason, no matter how ridiculous it may be. Given that, I cannot say that the torture was not mitigated by these women’s general attitude towards males as a result of their sexual orientation. That is not to say that being lesbians caused them to be abusive, but there seem to be a propensity for lesbians who abuse children to specifically target boys. Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy | Toy Soldiers


To be honest, I quit looking at this point. I was looking for a case, I believe out of CA where a lesbian couple abuse a young girl (she had cigarette burns), and other scars of abuse. I have noticed when those cases "make" the news, they are only posted for a short while, and get no where near the attention that other abuse cases get."

Isolated, anecdotal, incidental cases do not constitute ‘evidence.’ One can find news stories with heterosexual parents committing the same crimes, but that doesn’t ‘prove’ opposite-sex couples are any more ‘unfit’ as parents than same-sex couples.

 

[koshergrl]

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.



Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

from another thread
"Gadawg
You were saying...


Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadawg73
8,934 posts here in thelast few years on gay marriage.
Not one to date that has any evidence whatsoever any negative effects to heterosexual marriage.
Gays are getting married now.
How has it affected ANYONE?
Gay marriage=non issue. Waste of time.
I guess that is because you choose to ignore the truth. The first article is about domestic violence in homosexual relationships. Usually, when "couples" are violent, similar acts of violence are targeted towards the children....

Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence - Conservapedia
In regards to homosexual couples and domestic violence, studies indicate that as a whole homosexual couples have higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual couples. In addition, studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[2] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[3] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: "Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."[3]

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexual couples:



“

Domestic abuse is under-reported in the gay community...
Male-on-male same-sex domestic violence also has been reported in couples where one or both persons are HIV-positive. Intimate partner abuse and violence include humiliation, threatening to disclose HIV status, withholding HIV therapy, and harming family members or pets.[4]

”


In 2000, the New York Times in an article entitled Silence Ending About Abuse in Gay Relationships cites some information which may indicate that domestic abuse may be under-reported in the homosexual community.[5] The New York Times article states the following:


“

But the issue of gay domestic abuse has been shrouded by silence until recently...
For years, gay people have tried to keep quiet about the problem, said Dave Shannon, coordinator of the violence recovery program at Fenway Community Health, a gay and lesbian clinic in Boston.

Mr. Shannon said: People feel, 'Why should we air our dirty laundry? People feel so negatively about us already, the last thing we should do is contribute to negative stereotypes of us.' [5]”


Studies
The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater."[6]
Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [7]
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Domestic Abuse Fact Sheet states that "11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner".[8]
A study published in The Journal of Family Violence reported among its participants that "Emotional abuse was reported by 83%" of its participants.[7]
A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse. [9]
A 1985 study of 1109 lesbians by Gwat-Yong Lie and Sabrina Gentlewarrier reported that slightly more than half of the respondents indicated that they had been abused by a female partner.[10]
Coleman, in a 1990 study of 90 lesbians reported that 46.6% had experienced repeated acts of violence.[11]
A study of 113 lesbians reported (1994) that 41% said they had been abused in one or more relationships.[12]
In their book, Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence (1991), Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[13]
The Journal of Social Service Research reported in 1991 that survey of 1,099 lesbians showed that slightly more than 50 percent of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner, "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse." [14]
A study of lesbian couples reported (2000) in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[15]

Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online A gay couple who adopted nine boys have been accused of sexually assaulting two of the children.

Read more: Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online

A DUTCH man accused of sexually abusing more than 60 children was “married” to his homosexual lover. Under American law, this man would be able to adopt children or obtain children through surrogates and raise them in his home. How long before we see children subjected to a lifetime of abuse by their adoptive homosexual parents? Heterosexual men commit sexual abuse too, but they do not have the same rate of sexual perversion against the young. The Thinking Housewife › “Married” Pedophile Accused of Abusing More than 60 Children

BY DOUG PATTON, Conservative viewpoint

All who continue to deny the dire warnings concerning the freak show that awaits our culture at the bottom of the slippery slope called "gay rights" need only contemplate the story of 11-year-old Thomas Lobel.

Thomas is being raised in San Francisco (of course) by two lesbians, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, who claim they were "married" by a rabbi in some sort of ceremony back in 1990. They adopted Thomas when he was 2 years old.

Because he has a speech impediment, Thomas learned sign language at an early age. According to his two "mothers," he told them in sign language — at age 3, mind you — that he was a girl. On the strength of that assertion — from a 3-year-old! — Moreno and Lobel made a gigantic leap and assumed it must be true. Thomas, they concluded, must be what is euphemistically referred to these days as "transgendered." You know, transgendered, like "Chaz" Bono, Sonny and Cher's little girl-turned-lesbian-turned-boy-turned-who-knows-what-next.

So, this troubled little boy, Thomas Lobel (whom the only parents he has ever known now call "Tammy"), confused and withdrawn because of his handicap, was brainwashed into believing something he couldn't possibly understand yet.

Four years ago, when Thomas was 7, psychiatrists "diagnosed" him with "gender identity disorder." By age 8, with ongoing encouragement from his two lesbian parents, he was supposedly "transitioning," whatever that means.

But this story gets worse. Much, much worse.

This summer, aided and abetted by a medical establishment that no longer has any moral or cultural moorings, these two deviants started the hideous process of "gender reassignment" on poor Thomas, now 11, in order to suppress the onset of his male puberty and physically turn him into a girl! This "therapy" includes a hormone-suppressant, which is implanted in his upper left arm to prevent him from developing naturally into the boy God intended him to be. It will suppress the growth of facial hair, the natural deepening of his voice and the broadening of his shoulders.

Thomas will remain a pre-pubescent boy until he and his "mothers" decide whether he should transition to an adult female. In order to do that, he will have to take female hormones, which will raise his voice, allow him to grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics. Lastly, of course, is the decision to have sex-change surgery.

San Francisco is one of only four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for "transgender children." The others are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health.

Such an innocuous sounding name.

There is virtually no chance that this poor, bewildered boy will "decide" to do anything other than to allow himself to be manipulated and mutilated by these domineering women in his life. They, along with the so-called doctors who condone and facilitate this perversion, should be prosecuted for child abuse.

What will these two decide to convince their son to become next? A dog? A cat? A fencepost? A lesbian? What was wrong with him being a boy? That's how he was born. That's what he was supposed to be.

"Everybody was angry with us," Moreno says. "They all said, 'How could you be doing this? You might be ruining his whole life!'" She says she and her partner have faced intense criticism from both friends and family.

What they should be facing is a judge and jury. Instead, we have criminal child abuse being validated by our psychiatric community and our legal system. It may not be popular to say so, but this is the stagnant social cesspool that results from embracing deviancy.

In the blink of an eye we have gone from unthinkable to the new normal.

Lesbian couple guilty of criminal child abuse | Hernando Today

Exposure to a plethora of pernicious elements that often plague the homosexual lifestyle left Dawn feeling “outraged at the incidences of same-sex domestic abuse, sexual advances toward minors, and loss of sexual partners as if people were only commodities.”


“From a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Sado-masochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”
The Effects of Gay Marriage on Children | This is Marriage

Timothy J. Dailey Ph.D. -- Homosexual Parenting: Placing children at risk

Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenmore women each sentenced to 30 years

Two Kenmore women accused of abusing their six children were sentenced to 30 years in prison each this afternoon.

Mary Rowles, 31, the mother of the six children, and her lesbian partner, Alice Jenkins, 28, could have received more than 100 years each from Summit County Common Pleas Judge Patricia Cosgrove.

In October, the women pleaded guilty to an entire 55-count indictment alleging kidnapping, child endangering, felonious assault and other charges involving the children, now ages 7 to 15.

Rowles' five sons allege they were locked in dark closets, deprived of food, forced to eat feces and were mentally and physically abused for a year or more. Rowles' 12-year-old daughter was not subjected to the same abuse, police said, but is included as a victim because of her presence in the home. Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy

Posted on December 1, 2007


For some reason, when I read about this I though of a recent post over on Feminist Critics:


Seven-year-old Sean Gibson was found earlier this month wandering in a parking lot by employees of Westgate Resorts in Kissimee, Florida. He was out late by himself and begging for food at a buffet. The poor kid only weighed 37 pounds. They called authories who took him to the hospital.

Now domestic partners Suzette Stevenson, 45, and Jamie Lynn Martin, 26, have been charged with aggravated child abuse.

Fair warning, the torture these women subjected this boy to is rather graphic:


The boy, who is not a biological child to either woman, was allegedly tied by his wrists and made to stand in an upright position for hours at a time, forced to drink shampoo, was burned with cigarettes and had to urinate and defecate in a closet, according the Baker County Sheriff’s Office documents.

—-

Instead, the two women allegedly threatened him with a box cutter and left him in a car, drugged with some type of adult sleeping pill, as they tried to collect $100 in a real estate promotion awarded to anyone who visited a timeshare open house.

And here:


The staff at Celebration was appalled when the extent of Sean’s abuse became apparent.

They amputated the big toe of his left foot, one of two that had been broken by bending. Other injuries include rope burns on his wrists from where he was left hanging by his arms from two large wall lights at the trailer.

“He had burns on the sides of his ears, and they believe those came from being dragged across carpets,” said the investigator. “The doctor initially called him ‘walking death’ and indicated he may have damage to internal organs from repeated kicking.”

Sean’s head was covered in bruises and knots believed to be from blows by fists, hands or other objects.

The one thing about this is that at numerous point people had the opportunity to intervene. At the daycare someone should have noticed. The fact that this boy was pulled out of school should have been a red flag. Or maybe someone could have bothered to verify the fake birth certificate these women had. The social service system was designed to address situations like this, but at every point that someone had a chance to step in no one did a thing. In the end it was the boy had to save himself.

One other element about this stands out. These two women were torturing this boy for apparently no reason at all. That just does not fit with the general profile of abusers. There is always reason, no matter how ridiculous it may be. Given that, I cannot say that the torture was not mitigated by these women’s general attitude towards males as a result of their sexual orientation. That is not to say that being lesbians caused them to be abusive, but there seem to be a propensity for lesbians who abuse children to specifically target boys. Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy | Toy Soldiers


To be honest, I quit looking at this point. I was looking for a case, I believe out of CA where a lesbian couple abuse a young girl (she had cigarette burns), and other scars of abuse. I have noticed when those cases "make" the news, they are only posted for a short while, and get no where near the attention that other abuse cases get."

Isolated, anecdotal, incidental cases do not constitute ‘evidence.’ One can find news stories with heterosexual parents committing the same crimes, but that doesn’t ‘prove’ opposite-sex couples are any more ‘unfit’ as parents than same-sex couples.

Lol..even when they aren't isolated, anecdotal or incidental?

 

[Montrovant]

OMG Wall of text, quoted wall of text, quoted wall of text!

Please, use links rather than such huge posts. They are rude. And please, don't quote someone else's huge post. Same issue.

 

[logical4u]

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.



Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

from another thread
"Gadawg
You were saying...


Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadawg73
8,934 posts here in thelast few years on gay marriage.
Not one to date that has any evidence whatsoever any negative effects to heterosexual marriage.
Gays are getting married now.
How has it affected ANYONE?
Gay marriage=non issue. Waste of time.
I guess that is because you choose to ignore the truth. The first article is about domestic violence in homosexual relationships. Usually, when "couples" are violent, similar acts of violence are targeted towards the children....

Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence - Conservapedia
In regards to homosexual couples and domestic violence, studies indicate that as a whole homosexual couples have higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual couples. In addition, studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[2] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[3] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: "Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."[3]

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexual couples:



“

Domestic abuse is under-reported in the gay community...
Male-on-male same-sex domestic violence also has been reported in couples where one or both persons are HIV-positive. Intimate partner abuse and violence include humiliation, threatening to disclose HIV status, withholding HIV therapy, and harming family members or pets.[4]

”


In 2000, the New York Times in an article entitled Silence Ending About Abuse in Gay Relationships cites some information which may indicate that domestic abuse may be under-reported in the homosexual community.[5] The New York Times article states the following:


“

But the issue of gay domestic abuse has been shrouded by silence until recently...
For years, gay people have tried to keep quiet about the problem, said Dave Shannon, coordinator of the violence recovery program at Fenway Community Health, a gay and lesbian clinic in Boston.

Mr. Shannon said: People feel, 'Why should we air our dirty laundry? People feel so negatively about us already, the last thing we should do is contribute to negative stereotypes of us.' [5]”


Studies
The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater."[6]
Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [7]
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Domestic Abuse Fact Sheet states that "11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner".[8]
A study published in The Journal of Family Violence reported among its participants that "Emotional abuse was reported by 83%" of its participants.[7]
A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse. [9]
A 1985 study of 1109 lesbians by Gwat-Yong Lie and Sabrina Gentlewarrier reported that slightly more than half of the respondents indicated that they had been abused by a female partner.[10]
Coleman, in a 1990 study of 90 lesbians reported that 46.6% had experienced repeated acts of violence.[11]
A study of 113 lesbians reported (1994) that 41% said they had been abused in one or more relationships.[12]
In their book, Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence (1991), Island and Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."[13]
The Journal of Social Service Research reported in 1991 that survey of 1,099 lesbians showed that slightly more than 50 percent of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner, "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse." [14]
A study of lesbian couples reported (2000) in the Handbook of Family Development and Intervention "indicates that 54 percent had experienced 10 or more abusive incidents, 74 percent had experienced six or more incidents, 60 percent reported a pattern to the abuse, and 71 percent said it grew worse over time."[15]

Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online A gay couple who adopted nine boys have been accused of sexually assaulting two of the children.

Read more: Gay couple accused of abusing two of their nine adopted sons | Mail Online

A DUTCH man accused of sexually abusing more than 60 children was “married” to his homosexual lover. Under American law, this man would be able to adopt children or obtain children through surrogates and raise them in his home. How long before we see children subjected to a lifetime of abuse by their adoptive homosexual parents? Heterosexual men commit sexual abuse too, but they do not have the same rate of sexual perversion against the young. The Thinking Housewife › “Married” Pedophile Accused of Abusing More than 60 Children

BY DOUG PATTON, Conservative viewpoint

All who continue to deny the dire warnings concerning the freak show that awaits our culture at the bottom of the slippery slope called "gay rights" need only contemplate the story of 11-year-old Thomas Lobel.

Thomas is being raised in San Francisco (of course) by two lesbians, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, who claim they were "married" by a rabbi in some sort of ceremony back in 1990. They adopted Thomas when he was 2 years old.

Because he has a speech impediment, Thomas learned sign language at an early age. According to his two "mothers," he told them in sign language — at age 3, mind you — that he was a girl. On the strength of that assertion — from a 3-year-old! — Moreno and Lobel made a gigantic leap and assumed it must be true. Thomas, they concluded, must be what is euphemistically referred to these days as "transgendered." You know, transgendered, like "Chaz" Bono, Sonny and Cher's little girl-turned-lesbian-turned-boy-turned-who-knows-what-next.

So, this troubled little boy, Thomas Lobel (whom the only parents he has ever known now call "Tammy"), confused and withdrawn because of his handicap, was brainwashed into believing something he couldn't possibly understand yet.

Four years ago, when Thomas was 7, psychiatrists "diagnosed" him with "gender identity disorder." By age 8, with ongoing encouragement from his two lesbian parents, he was supposedly "transitioning," whatever that means.

But this story gets worse. Much, much worse.

This summer, aided and abetted by a medical establishment that no longer has any moral or cultural moorings, these two deviants started the hideous process of "gender reassignment" on poor Thomas, now 11, in order to suppress the onset of his male puberty and physically turn him into a girl! This "therapy" includes a hormone-suppressant, which is implanted in his upper left arm to prevent him from developing naturally into the boy God intended him to be. It will suppress the growth of facial hair, the natural deepening of his voice and the broadening of his shoulders.

Thomas will remain a pre-pubescent boy until he and his "mothers" decide whether he should transition to an adult female. In order to do that, he will have to take female hormones, which will raise his voice, allow him to grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics. Lastly, of course, is the decision to have sex-change surgery.

San Francisco is one of only four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for "transgender children." The others are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health.

Such an innocuous sounding name.

There is virtually no chance that this poor, bewildered boy will "decide" to do anything other than to allow himself to be manipulated and mutilated by these domineering women in his life. They, along with the so-called doctors who condone and facilitate this perversion, should be prosecuted for child abuse.

What will these two decide to convince their son to become next? A dog? A cat? A fencepost? A lesbian? What was wrong with him being a boy? That's how he was born. That's what he was supposed to be.

"Everybody was angry with us," Moreno says. "They all said, 'How could you be doing this? You might be ruining his whole life!'" She says she and her partner have faced intense criticism from both friends and family.

What they should be facing is a judge and jury. Instead, we have criminal child abuse being validated by our psychiatric community and our legal system. It may not be popular to say so, but this is the stagnant social cesspool that results from embracing deviancy.

In the blink of an eye we have gone from unthinkable to the new normal.

Lesbian couple guilty of criminal child abuse | Hernando Today

Exposure to a plethora of pernicious elements that often plague the homosexual lifestyle left Dawn feeling “outraged at the incidences of same-sex domestic abuse, sexual advances toward minors, and loss of sexual partners as if people were only commodities.”


“From a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Sado-masochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”
The Effects of Gay Marriage on Children | This is Marriage

Timothy J. Dailey Ph.D. -- Homosexual Parenting: Placing children at risk

Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenmore women each sentenced to 30 years

Two Kenmore women accused of abusing their six children were sentenced to 30 years in prison each this afternoon.

Mary Rowles, 31, the mother of the six children, and her lesbian partner, Alice Jenkins, 28, could have received more than 100 years each from Summit County Common Pleas Judge Patricia Cosgrove.

In October, the women pleaded guilty to an entire 55-count indictment alleging kidnapping, child endangering, felonious assault and other charges involving the children, now ages 7 to 15.

Rowles' five sons allege they were locked in dark closets, deprived of food, forced to eat feces and were mentally and physically abused for a year or more. Rowles' 12-year-old daughter was not subjected to the same abuse, police said, but is included as a victim because of her presence in the home. Lesbian Couple sentenced 30 years for Child Abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy

Posted on December 1, 2007


For some reason, when I read about this I though of a recent post over on Feminist Critics:


Seven-year-old Sean Gibson was found earlier this month wandering in a parking lot by employees of Westgate Resorts in Kissimee, Florida. He was out late by himself and begging for food at a buffet. The poor kid only weighed 37 pounds. They called authories who took him to the hospital.

Now domestic partners Suzette Stevenson, 45, and Jamie Lynn Martin, 26, have been charged with aggravated child abuse.

Fair warning, the torture these women subjected this boy to is rather graphic:


The boy, who is not a biological child to either woman, was allegedly tied by his wrists and made to stand in an upright position for hours at a time, forced to drink shampoo, was burned with cigarettes and had to urinate and defecate in a closet, according the Baker County Sheriff’s Office documents.

—-

Instead, the two women allegedly threatened him with a box cutter and left him in a car, drugged with some type of adult sleeping pill, as they tried to collect $100 in a real estate promotion awarded to anyone who visited a timeshare open house.

And here:


The staff at Celebration was appalled when the extent of Sean’s abuse became apparent.

They amputated the big toe of his left foot, one of two that had been broken by bending. Other injuries include rope burns on his wrists from where he was left hanging by his arms from two large wall lights at the trailer.

“He had burns on the sides of his ears, and they believe those came from being dragged across carpets,” said the investigator. “The doctor initially called him ‘walking death’ and indicated he may have damage to internal organs from repeated kicking.”

Sean’s head was covered in bruises and knots believed to be from blows by fists, hands or other objects.

The one thing about this is that at numerous point people had the opportunity to intervene. At the daycare someone should have noticed. The fact that this boy was pulled out of school should have been a red flag. Or maybe someone could have bothered to verify the fake birth certificate these women had. The social service system was designed to address situations like this, but at every point that someone had a chance to step in no one did a thing. In the end it was the boy had to save himself.

One other element about this stands out. These two women were torturing this boy for apparently no reason at all. That just does not fit with the general profile of abusers. There is always reason, no matter how ridiculous it may be. Given that, I cannot say that the torture was not mitigated by these women’s general attitude towards males as a result of their sexual orientation. That is not to say that being lesbians caused them to be abusive, but there seem to be a propensity for lesbians who abuse children to specifically target boys. Lesbian Couple Drug, Torture and Starve Seven-Year-Old Boy | Toy Soldiers


To be honest, I quit looking at this point. I was looking for a case, I believe out of CA where a lesbian couple abuse a young girl (she had cigarette burns), and other scars of abuse. I have noticed when those cases "make" the news, they are only posted for a short while, and get no where near the attention that other abuse cases get."

Isolated, anecdotal, incidental cases do not constitute ‘evidence.’ One can find news stories with heterosexual parents committing the same crimes, but that doesn’t ‘prove’ opposite-sex couples are any more ‘unfit’ as parents than same-sex couples.

Homosexuals are a tiny part of the population, there should be no incidents. De Nile isn't just a river.

 

[NeoTemplar]

The use of the word Faggot is an unnecessary and highly offensive pejorative. You lose all of your credibility because the main point of you post is to insult people.

People are a collection unique individuals that we must share the world with. I doesn't help anyone to make needless insults. It only turns people against you and shows that you are a cruel person.

Its only an insult if you choose to take it as one the word actually means to bind as one and Gays actually bind themselves to one gender so its actually quite fitting.

The sensible solution is to make civil unions legal and equal to marriage in every legal way. Let the religions keep the title "marriage" and let the gays have the privileges that married people enjoy.

I have no problem with giving gays rights as long as they don't include Marriage and children, if a gay wants to get married or have kids go find the opposite sex, if not don't bitch about not having the right to do it

And what will they say "We're unionized?"

Perhaps. Who cares?

They care. They should have exactly the same rights as every married person out there. Not a "here, have 'close but no cigar' so we can continue to marginalize you."

except being able to marry and have kids which are heterosexually exclusive and always have been.

They care. They should have exactly the same rights as every married person out there. Not a "here, have 'close but no cigar' so we can continue to marginalize you."

Gays DO have the exact same right to marry as straights do. However, no one has the "right" to redefine a word.

It's marriage. They are married in several states in the union. Sorry that trips your trigger.

Ellen and Portia. Married.

Two women. Married.

Not 'unionized'. They have a marriage.

No matter what you would like to believe its not a marriage because it isn't supported by any Religion and that was Marriage is all about. because Marriage is an institute of Religion rather then Government, through all of history the religion rather then the Government has sanctified marriage its properly defined as the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex because it originally meant to take a wife which also defined as a female partner.

A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

It’s an illegal ‘solution.’

Gays DO have the exact same right to marry as straights do.

Same-sex couples do not.

However, no one has the "right" to redefine a word.

No one ever said anyone did.

No one’s advocating anything be changed; indeed, same-sex couples merely wish access to the same marriage laws as every other citizen, in accordance with the Constitution.

That would automaticly redefine the term, is your reading comprehension lacking?

Our American laws will enforce the same obligations on gay as well as straight parents, garyganu. You have nothing to worry about. But is suspect this is not a legal argument really, just a stalking horse for a moral or religious one. You are in the vast minority of those who feel your way in the forty and under set. Your way is going to be extinct in America in fifty years as the passenger pigeon.

There are also psychological ramifications here that your failing to take into account.

ear Gary, the world used to be flat and slavery was the order of the day. These people are married. YOU are twisting the truth, at which point it ceases to be the truth.

Your the one doing all the twisting, Marriages is clear defined in every civilization in history as being between a man and a woman, why do Gays want something thats purely hetrosexual? Its like a lesbian saying she wants a Penis instead of her favorite Dildo.

Gary, we'll be just fine. The world didn't end with the advent of inter-racial marriages, and it won't end with this, either.

You cannot compare Inter-racial marriage with Gays wanting to marry as Inter-racial marriage is defined as being between a man and woman of seperate race or skin color.

Gays are found in nature.

If Gays can't automaticlly breed then they aren't meant to have sex, in other words it isn't natural.

And that is your choice...because, believe it or not....giving gay couples the right to legally marry does not affect your marriage, however you want it to be, in any way.
Isn't that something?

Thats extremely ignorant of you it affects all marriage everywhere for all time from then on, in psychological and socital way. The problem that heterosexuals have with Gays wanting to marry is that would imply that same-sex marriage is just as valid and necessary as traditional marriage which is not the case, also all married couples share a psychological and emotional bond that they don't want to share with homosexuals because its purely heterosexual in nature.

Does homosexual sex have any chance of "producing" (conceiving)? That would be scientific authority (but you guys don't care for science when it is easy to prove)

The ability to procreate or not is legally irrelevant, as infertile opposite-sex couples are allowed to marry.

What gives you the authority to change the traditional family that has been in place for thousands of years, and where it is celebrated and reinforced, those families have made the most productive societies in the history of the world? Please give examples of the great contributions that homosexuals have left for the generations that will "follow" them.

Nothing is being 'changed.'

Again, in both Romer and Lawrence, the Court upheld and reaffirmed the doctrine that because a thing is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ is not justification to preempt a fundamental right.

And there is no evidence documenting that same-sex couples will have a negative impact on society. Indeed, all the objective research establishes the fact that families with same-sex parents are as stable and as nurturing as families headed by opposite-sex parents. See: Perry v. Brown.

The court has no right to change any religious Institution

 

[Cenotaph]

Its only an insult if you choose to take it as one the word actually means to bind as one and Gays actually bind themselves to one gender so its actually quite fitting.

The term faggot (in reference to homosexuals) originates from the definition "a bundle of sticks." The correlation between these two things is that centuries ago people would use homosexuals as wood kindling for those being burned at the stake. So... gays didn't even deserve a "trial" to be burned at the stake... they were just used as fire wood.

Seems rather derogatory to me (especially in the context that it is usually said in). Although, I personally am not offended by something as silly as just one word.

I have no problem with giving gays rights as long as they don't include Marriage and children, if a gay wants to get married or have kids go find the opposite sex, if not don't bitch about not having the right to do it except being able to marry and have kids which are heterosexually exclusive and always have been.

So far I have yet to see a valid argument supporting this.

No matter what you would like to believe its not a marriage because it isn't supported by any Religion and that was Marriage is all about. because Marriage is an institute of Religion rather then Government, through all of history the religion rather then the Government has sanctified marriage its properly defined as the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex because it originally meant to take a wife which also defined as a female partner.

Well, it's too bad for you that civil marriage exists... Oh, and that not all of us are apart of your religion.

There are also psychological ramifications here that your failing to take into account.

Really? Such as what?

If Gays can't automaticlly breed then they aren't meant to have sex, in other words it isn't natural.

No... it just means it's not normal in comparison to the rest of society. Not unnatural.

Thats extremely ignorant of you it affects all marriage everywhere for all time from then on, in psychological and socital way. The problem that heterosexuals have with Gays wanting to marry is that would imply that same-sex marriage is just as valid and necessary as traditional marriage which is not the case, also all married couples share a psychological and emotional bond that they don't want to share with homosexuals because its purely heterosexual in nature.

Really now? Homosexuals don't share a bond on a "psychological and emotional" level? How do you know this?

The court has no right to change any religious Institution

I agree. However, that is completely irrelevant when discussing the legal recognition of same-sex marriage.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I have no problem with giving gays rights as long as they don't include Marriage and children, if a gay wants to get married or have kids go find the opposite sex, if not don't bitch about not having the right to do it.

There’s no such thing as ‘gay rights,’ just as there’s no such thing as ‘gay marriage.’ Marriage is contract law, written by the states; all citizens are entitled access that that law, regardless sexual orientation.

except being able to marry and have kids which are heterosexually exclusive and always have been.

And again: the ability to procreate or not is irrelevant.

No matter what you would like to believe its not a marriage because it isn't supported by any Religion and that was Marriage is all about. because Marriage is an institute of Religion rather then Government, through all of history the religion rather then the Government has sanctified marriage its properly defined as the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex because it originally meant to take a wife which also defined as a female partner.

Marriage in this context is secular law, having noting to do with religion. Marriage law has been gender-neutral for decades, the doctrine of coverture long abandoned by the states.

Your the one doing all the twisting, Marriages is clear defined in every civilization in history as being between a man and a woman, why do Gays want something thats purely hetrosexual? Its like a lesbian saying she wants a Penis instead of her favorite Dildo.

Also irrelevant. That something offensive to the Constitution is ‘traditional’ or ‘historic’ doesn’t justify its continued practice.

You cannot compare Inter-racial marriage with Gays wanting to marry as Inter-racial marriage is defined as being between a man and woman of seperate race or skin color.

Of course one can, both concern freedom of choice in the context of the right to privacy, as well as the right of equal protection of the law.

Thats extremely ignorant of you it affects all marriage everywhere for all time from then on, in psychological and socital way. The problem that heterosexuals have with Gays wanting to marry is that would imply that same-sex marriage is just as valid and necessary as traditional marriage which is not the case, also all married couples share a psychological and emotional bond that they don't want to share with homosexuals because its purely heterosexual in nature.

Actually, you’re the only one exhibiting his ignorance. Again, there is no such thing as ‘same-sex marriage’ or ‘traditional marriage,’ as a given state’s marriage law is the same for all. No same-sex couple is advocating any law be ‘changed,’ only that they be allowed access to the same law as opposite-sex couples.

The court has no right to change any religious Institution

No one ever said it did.

 

[Tsalagi]

Who can possibly try to read/post in this mish/mash of global garbage regurgitated time and again by people too lazy?, incompetent?, oh whatever, to make a point?