A reason to Vote!!

[Navy1960]

If adequate spending were available in the market place, we wouldn't be in a recession. A reduction in government spending would reduce economic activity. Higher government spending is necessary to put money in peoples' pockets to spur domestic consumption and take us out of the recession. Low taxes and interest rates will help but likely will be insufficient to quickly pull us out.

If the economy is growing, then the debt can be handled in the future when taxes can be raised and spending can be decreased (because it will no longer be necessary).

Higher govt. spending to spur economic activty is a double edge sword, because that money now is borrowed money. It adds to the national debt it also deepens with each passing day as interest builds on that debt. The other thing it does is devalue the dollar and reduce spending power causing the govt. once they get into this mode to keep giving more and more money to stimulate the economy. I am afriad I must disagree with you on this, however the govt. must keep taxes low for everyone and at the same time reduce spending and this massive debt load, along with spending new money wisely such as domestic energy production etc. This will free up even more money and strengthen the dollar and enhance buying power and stimulate the economy. You want to see what a massive influx of cash does under an economic downturn or even the mere mention of it, look at the non impact of the recent "bailout" or the non-impact of giving the Auto Industry 35 Billion dollars.

 

[ReillyT]

You want to see what a massive influx of cash does under an economic downturn or even the mere mention of it, look at the non impact of the recent "bailout" or the non-impact of giving the Auto Industry 35 Billion dollars.

You could also look at the New Deal and WWII with respect to the Great Depression

 

[dilloduck]

This sparked a thought....
navy,
Don't you think it is becoming a little "dangerous" for the "us" of the future, to allow all of these mergers, that make these companies "Too big to fail" as was said about the fannie maes and the freddie macs and the bear sterns and maybe now the gm/Chrysler...not that i deny that such might be beneficial right now... it sets us on a track of the government having to always be there to bail them out because as said by our own treasury secretary, "they were too big to fail".....?

What frightens me is that now the financial institutions will boil down to just 3 or 4, acquiring the others in this mess and leaving us with mega, mega, mega banks that are too big to fail...

if there was some legislation that required them to break up 10 years from now....start selling pieces off of the business so that there is more competition in the field...i would feel a little more comfortable with it...

gm/chrysler is not necessarily my main concern because they really do have legitimate foreign competition here in the usa, but the banks....uh, i just don't know....?

care

BINGO--Once everyone is dependent on you they are "too big to fail". Read that to mean we're screwed and can't do a thing about it.
oh wait----we can vote for a Republican or a Democrat. How nice for them to let us think we have a say so.

 

[Jon]

Not sure, but since Chrysler was bought by Daimler a few years back, I can't say I like the Idea, It would mean 2 of the bug three owned by a German company.

That merger didn't last long. They split sometime last year.

 

[Navy1960]

This sparked a thought....
navy,
Don't you think it is becoming a little "dangerous" for the "us" of the future, to allow all of these mergers, that make these companies "Too big to fail" as was said about the fannie maes and the freddie macs and the bear sterns and maybe now the gm/Chrysler...not that i deny that such might be beneficial right now... it sets us on a track of the government having to always be there to bail them out because as said by our own treasury secretary, "they were too big to fail".....?

What frightens me is that now the financial institutions will boil down to just 3 or 4, acquiring the others in this mess and leaving us with mega, mega, mega banks that are too big to fail...

if there was some legislation that required them to break up 10 years from now....start selling pieces off of the business so that there is more competition in the field...i would feel a little more comfortable with it...

gm/chrysler is not necessarily my main concern because they really do have legitimate foreign competition here in the usa, but the banks....uh, i just don't know....?

care

You want my honest opinion Care, I feel that there is no company too large not to be allowed to fail. IMHO it is not the govt's job to come to the rescue to each and every industry that fails in an attempt to keep them going. What you end up with is exactly what is happening today, lack of competition and even larger companies swallowing up the smaller ones. It used to be that competition kept prices low , as a business had to compete in the market to provide a good product at a reasonable price in order to be successful. Now however without this competition and knowing that the govt. will come to the rescue they have no incentives to do any of that. As far as I am concerned if GM or Chrysler fail then they fail someone will buy whats left or someone will fill the hole left over. No competition means less choice and less choice means you take whats given you. It makes it that much harder too for the startup. Take for example if it boils down to there being only two airlines someday, what incentives do they have then without low cost carriers to provide for low cost converage? See what I mean. Sometimes it's best to just let these bad businesses fail.

 

[Care4all]

Higher govt. spending to spur economic activty is a double edge sword, because that money now is borrowed money. It adds to the national debt it also deepens with each passing day as interest builds on that debt. The other thing it does is devalue the dollar and reduce spending power causing the govt. once they get into this mode to keep giving more and more money to stimulate the economy. I am afriad I must disagree with you on this, however the govt. must keep taxes low for everyone and at the same time reduce spending and this massive debt load, along with spending new money wisely such as domestic energy production etc. This will free up even more money and strengthen the dollar and enhance buying power and stimulate the economy. You want to see what a massive influx of cash does under an economic downturn or even the mere mention of it, look at the non impact of the recent "bailout" or the non-impact of giving the Auto Industry 35 Billion dollars.

our national debt is so huge, so, so huge that it now behooves our government to no longer support the history long goal of propping up the dollar, keeping the usa dollar strong....their goal seems to be to devalue the dollar?

Keeping interest rates low, is making "money" artificially "cheap" for the bankers....and it makes our gvts borrowing cheap....our debt is at a lower interest rate thus less in interest payments for the gvt...

To me, this will come back and bite us in the butt because keeping money cheap, printing money like it is Monopoly money, might make the very foreigners that we are borrowing the money from..... lose their investing interest in us...and to intice them we may need to have interest rates on what we borrow from them go way up....? then making our interest payments become $500 billion a year instead of $290 billion a year...

I'm just babbling and wondering what is really going on behind the curtain of our gvt....

 

[Navy1960]

our national debt is so huge, so, so huge that it now behooves our government to no longer support the history long goal of propping up the dollar, keeping the usa dollar strong....their goal seems to be to devalue the dollar?

Keeping interest rates low, is making "money" artificially "cheap" for the bankers....and it makes our gvts borrowing cheap....our debt is at a lower interest rate thus less in interest payments for the gvt...

To me, this will come back and bite us in the butt because keeping money cheap, printing money like it is Monopoly money, might make the very foreigners that we are borrowing the money from..... lose their investing interest in us...and to intice them we may need to have interest rates on what we borrow from them go way up....? then making our interest payments become $500 billion a year instead of $290 billion a year...

I'm just babbling and wondering what is really going on behind the curtain of our gvt....

As we have debated many times on here Care when people are elected year after year and the same thing keeps happening over and over again in congress. It is time to start over with a whole new batch of people on the hill and I mean a WHOLE new batch. both republican and democrat. As I have stated before, one way for you dems. to get me on your side on this Universal Healthcare thing is to tie it to term limits to congressmen and then you will have my undivided attention . lol Seriously though Care, I think it's time we visit the issue again of term limits in the house and senate as it seems that many of its members have gotten a little too comfortable and forgotten what they are there for. It seems they spend more time trying to appease special interest rather than doing the peoples business. This has to stop and there is only one way that I see to do it and thats vote them all out or get term limits in place so they will leave eventually anyway.

 

[Care4all]

BINGO--Once everyone is dependent on you they are "too big to fail". Read that to mean we're screwed and can't do a thing about it.
oh wait----we can vote for a Republican or a Democrat. How nice for them to let us think we have a say so.

YES, that is what i am saying is happening, even moreso, as of late...

Consider this Dillo, not voting...and believe me, I have been right there with you as recently as 2 months ago, is NOT the answer either...it gives them, the them that really are ruling, exactly what they want, without even having to cheat for it...

They want us smart ones, that are on to them to develop this apathy and NOT VOTE...makes it easier for them to rule all...

We at least, by voting have a chance to kick them out...

And yes, i think they have succeeded in making those left voting think that the "other side" is the most evil that ever existed...playing parties against eachother...

And yes, it seems the choices of who we get to vote for, are actually picked by the proverbial "them"....so the deck is stacked before we even get in to the game when it comes to the 2 parties, but there is the occaisional upset, that does give us that "chance" that i spoke about....

I find it hard to just accept defeat and hopelessness as you have done...i still think we can revolt thru our votes and Republicans and Democrats will eventually become wiser and some day, after being beaten down enough by the ruling class...become what we once were...all Americans.

Care

 

[dilloduck]

YES, that is what i am saying is happening, even moreso, as of late...

Consider this Dillo, not voting...and believe me, I have been right there with you as recently as 2 months ago, is NOT the answer either...it gives them, the them that really are ruling, exactly what they want, without even having to cheat for it...

They want us smart ones, that are on to them to develop this apathy and NOT VOTE...makes it easier for them to rule all...

We at least, by voting have a chance to kick them out...

And yes, i think they have succeeded in making those left voting think that the "other side" is the most evil that ever existed...playing parties against eachother...

And yes, it seems the choices of who we get to vote for, are actually picked by the proverbial "them"....so the deck is stacked before we even get in to the game when it comes to the 2 parties, but there is the occasional upset, that does give us that "chance" that i spoke about....

I find it hard to just accept defeat and hopelessness as you have done...i still think we can revolt thru our votes and Republicans and Democrats will eventually become wiser and some day, after being beaten down enough by the ruling class...become what we once were...all Americans.

Care

There will be no 'upset'. The partisanships are strong and divided. I am and will always be an American whether I vote or not. Neither of these candidates are offering any change in Washington. Which other candidate do you think has a prayer to win ?
Our country is facing economic disaster along with the rest of the world and what are the candidates arguing about ? Pissant changes in how we are taxed. What we pay for goods and services that we really need may completely demolish any tax advantage that one or the other is advertising.

 

[Paulie]

Well notice Paul I am not hawking a candidate, here and I'm not voting for Obama or McCain but am voting. If had no choice for president which in this case I don't believe I do then I tend to concenrate more on the house races and local races, I will however write in a candidate.

I will either write in Ron Paul, or vote for Chuck Baldwin. I haven't decided yet. Paul is my only REAL choice, but I agree with Baldwin on his platform and I trust him, so I wouldn't feel dirty if I voted for him.

I only WISH I had congressional races in my state with candidates I liked.

 

[Navy1960]

I will either write in Ron Paul, or vote for Chuck Baldwin. I haven't decided yet. Paul is my only REAL choice, but I agree with Baldwin on his platform and I trust him, so I wouldn't feel dirty if I voted for him.

I only WISH I had congressional races in my state with candidates I liked.

Do you know Paul at least for me, I think the congressional races are much more important than the presidential race. Congress for much to long IMHO as been too long complacent about their duties and personally I believe it is time to remove the whole lot of them in favor of a new group to effect real change.

 

[Paulie]

Do you know Paul at least for me, I think the congressional races are much more important than the presidential race. Congress for much to long IMHO as been too long complacent about their duties and personally I believe it is time to remove the whole lot of them in favor of a new group to effect real change.

I agree that the congressionals are more important. They are the people who craft laws, spend money, and allow war. That's why I was ok with Paul not running 3rd party, even though I think he could beat Perot's '92 numbers. He'd still lose regardless, and I'd rather have him retain his congressional seat, than lose a presidential election and be left with NOTHING.

There are a LOT of candidates running this congressional election that I absolutely love. Sadly, none are in my state or district. I had one I was huge on for our US Senate primary, but my state is way too liberal for him to have won.

I don't know where you lean on the political spectrum, but here are the candidates I like in this election:

2008 Federal Liberty Candidates One


I stand corrected, there is a man running against my district's incumbent, by the name of Peter Boyce. I will be voting for him, even though I was pleased that our incumbent voted NO twice, for the $700B bailout.