A Question

[Unkotare]

I dont see what all the fuss is about.

Whatever your stance on the issue, it is disingenuous to claim not to know "what all the fuss is about."

 

[mememe]

This is the History forum. You are looking for the Conspiracy Theory forum. Take a sharp left turn and keep going, you can't miss it.

Try to understand that US mantra of "conspiracy theory" doesn't work outside of US.

Try to understand that I, and most of my fellow countrymen, do not give a shit what "works" for asinine conspiracy theorists outside the US. You have just typed your way to utter irrelevancy.

You should "give a shit" about the world your country is destroying. And in that world people are accustomed to discuss such thing as GEOPOLITICS. It's YOU who are fed a diet of brainless mantras to preclude you from thinking and questioning the true motives behind your elites' global actions.

 

[Publius1787]

Yep. We ended the war and saved millions of Japanses lives.

Sure, more civilians died in the Battle of Okinawa than almost both atomic bombs combined. No amount of emotioncons that a person may use to display an emotion that they aren’t really having in order to gain a false sense of security in a losing argument will change the merits of the debate. Your response ranks right up there with "yawn" "lol" "lmao" and "roflmao." they may help you feel better about yourself but in the end they say more about the one who types them via their inability take emotion out of the argument and stick to the merits. You see, even when I get a non-response such as yours I am forced to ask myself “why.” What conclusion would you have come up with were you to receive a message such as the one you sent?

 

[mememe]

I know a purpose for WP! Its impossible to stop it from burning! Great stuff. Really effective.

Would you be happy to use it on US cities?

Of course not. I wasn't happy shooting insurgents in iraq. I thought I would be, but what can I say; its a nasty business. Why would I be happy about using WP? If we were to fight wars as we would want one fought against us we would be in the field with nerf guns and our enemies with Ak 47's. Perhaps that your fantasy but I live in the world of reality.

And in that world of reality US became world's number one terrorist state and mass murderer...

Btw, in Iraq you were shooting not "insurgents", but people who defended their country against an aggressor. Like people of all countries attacked by Nazis did during WW2...

 

[Ernie S.]

Seems to me there was a little to do at Pearl Harbor that got us pissed off at Japan.

Do you have any idea just how many people around the world are "pissed off" with US? Will you welcome the use of WMD on US cities?

Of course not, though if the US is the aggressor, I will see the justification.

The US did not start WWII. They ended it.

 

[mememe]

Yep. We ended the war and saved millions of Japanses lives.

Sure, more civilians died in the Battle of Okinawa than almost both atomic bombs combined.

A number of civilians who died during a battle of Okinawa (or any other) does not justify a DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS!!!!!!!!!! That's what TERRORISTS and MASS MURDERERS do!

 

[Unkotare]

As for your "near", -- in Japan everything is "near" -- it's a small country.

More exaggerration. It's not that small and not everything is near.

 

[mememe]

Seems to me there was a little to do at Pearl Harbor that got us pissed off at Japan.

Do you have any idea just how many people around the world are "pissed off" with US? Will you welcome the use of WMD on US cities?

The US did not start WWII. They ended it.

... by committing the same crime Nazis committed...

 

[Unkotare]

Try to understand that US mantra of "conspiracy theory" doesn't work outside of US.

Try to understand that I, and most of my fellow countrymen, do not give a shit what "works" for asinine conspiracy theorists outside the US. You have just typed your way to utter irrelevancy.

You should "give a shit" about the world your country is destroying. And in that world people are accustomed to discuss such thing as GEOPOLITICS. It's YOU who are fed a diet of brainless mantras to preclude you from thinking and questioning the true motives behind your elites' global actions.

Conspiracy Theory Forum - thataway - headcase -

 

[Publius1787]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

Yet another great reason we used the bomb against such a culture. I forgot about the second Sino-Japanses War.

You're saying the atomic bombs were dropped in revenge on behalf of China? And the goal was to bomb a "culture"?

Oh, yes. Had not we had the inaccuracy of naval/aerial bombardment, or the Japanese in Okinawa impressing civilians in to service, shooting them if they refused, and murdering anyone accepting food, water, and first aid from the Americans, I would say hold off on the bombs. You see, more civilians died at the battle of Okinawa than almost both atomic bombings combined. How an Army fights dictates how your fight them back. And the culture of the Army dictates how they fight. The Japanese Army, whether it be China, the Philippines, or their home country of Japan, had no respect for human life and viewed surrender as the ultimate dishonor. Such a culture purposely warranted the killing of anyone who got in the way of the war effort or did not adhere to their strict standards of honor. The Japanese warrior culture at China, the Philippines, and Okinawa forever justified those Atomic bombs. The bombs of which saved way more Japanese civilian lives than American ones.

 

[Unkotare]

Would you be happy to use it on US cities?

Of course not. I wasn't happy shooting insurgents in iraq. I thought I would be, but what can I say; its a nasty business. Why would I be happy about using WP? If we were to fight wars as we would want one fought against us we would be in the field with nerf guns and our enemies with Ak 47's. Perhaps that your fantasy but I live in the world of reality.

And in that world of reality US became world's number one terrorist state and mass murderer...

Btw, in Iraq you were shooting not "insurgents", but people who defended their country against an aggressor. Like people of all countries attacked by Nazis did during WW2...

Do you realize that you are getting crazier and crazier as this thread goes on? Keep on like this and you won't have any shit left to lose.

 

[Publius1787]

Sure, more civilians died in the Battle of Okinawa than almost both atomic bombs combined.

A number of civilians who died during a battle of Okinawa (or any other) does not justify a DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS!!!!!!!!!! That's what TERRORISTS and MASS MURDERERS do!

Hmmmm, destroy two cities and end the war or fight for another two years and have millions in collateral damage. Is it really that hard of an option?

 

[Publius1787]

Would you be happy to use it on US cities?

Of course not. I wasn't happy shooting insurgents in iraq. I thought I would be, but what can I say; its a nasty business. Why would I be happy about using WP? If we were to fight wars as we would want one fought against us we would be in the field with nerf guns and our enemies with Ak 47's. Perhaps that your fantasy but I live in the world of reality.

And in that world of reality US became world's number one terrorist state and mass murderer...

Btw, in Iraq you were shooting not "insurgents", but people who defended their country against an aggressor. Like people of all countries attacked by Nazis did during WW2...

Oh if only you could have seen the tortured and decapitated heads of innocent families who's father sought employment as a janitor on a US military base. If only you could have been there with me as they wore civilian attire, shot at us from mosques/schools/hospitals, and blew up bombs as polling stations and crowded market places. If only you could have seen them force the population to use their back yards, grave yards, and homes as weapons cache's. If only you could have picked up the bodies of the people they executed before a mass audience or seen the torture rooms. But no, according to you, these are just people attempting to repel their illegal occupiers. Tell that to the people of Anbar who, with our help, overthrew the insurgent presence.

 

[mememe]

Hmmmm, destroy two cities and end the war or fight for another two years and have millions in collateral damage. Is it really that hard of an option?

Your "millions in collateral damage" is no more then a speculation after a fact!

For starters, the Soviet Union beat Japan twice in 1930-s without any "millions in collateral damage".

For afters: DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IS A CRIME!!!!! That's what terrorists and mass murderers do. Is terrorism a crime? Is mass murder a crime?

 

[Unkotare]

The bombs of which saved way more Japanese civilian lives than American ones.

Some people like to refer to lives "saved" by the bomb as if it were a given, but it remains speculation - of course. The US had more than just two options at that point in the war. A massive invasion force was not some law of physics that could never have been avoided in the absence of the bomb such that things like "it saved X number of lives!" can be stated as if indisputable mathematical conclusions.

 

[mememe]

Of course not. I wasn't happy shooting insurgents in iraq. I thought I would be, but what can I say; its a nasty business. Why would I be happy about using WP? If we were to fight wars as we would want one fought against us we would be in the field with nerf guns and our enemies with Ak 47's. Perhaps that your fantasy but I live in the world of reality.

And in that world of reality US became world's number one terrorist state and mass murderer...

Btw, in Iraq you were shooting not "insurgents", but people who defended their country against an aggressor. Like people of all countries attacked by Nazis did during WW2...

Oh if only you could have seen the tortured and decapitated heads of innocent families who's father sought employment as a janitor on a US military base. If only you could have been there with me as they wore civilian attire, shot at us from mosques/schools/hospitals, and blew up bombs as polling stations and crowded market places. If only you could have seen them force the population to use their back yards, grave yards, and homes as weapons cache's. If only you could have picked up the bodies of the people they executed before a mass audience or seen the torture rooms. But no, according to you, these are just people attempting to repel their illegal occupiers. Tell that to the people of Anbar who, with our help, overthrew the insurgent presence.

You lamenting a fate of civilians in Iraq sounds like a joke after your justification of mass murders of civilians at the hands of US.

WHAT WERE YOU DOING IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE?! Can't you understand that to Iraqis you are INVADERS and ENEMIES? And those who are forced to look for work on your military bases because YOU destroyed their places of work automatically become "collaborators", "traitors" and "enemies" regardless of what they do on your bases?

What was going on in Iraq prior to your invasion was THEIR business (like it is your business what rights and wrongs are taking place in your country). You did not go there to "save civilians" or to "spread democracy"...

 

[Publius1787]

Hmmmm, destroy two cities and end the war or fight for another two years and have millions in collateral damage. Is it really that hard of an option?

Your "millions in collateral damage" is no more then a speculation after a fact!

For starters, the Soviet Union beat Japan twice in 1930-s without any "millions in collateral damage".

For afters: DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IS A CRIME!!!!! That's what terrorists and mass murderers do. Is terrorism a crime? Is mass murder a crime?

I would go so far as to say that war is a crime. Does that change reality? No. Speculation? Study the Battle of Okinawa!

 

[Unkotare]

the Japanese in Okinawa impressing civilians in to service, shooting them if they refused, and murdering anyone accepting food, water, and first aid from the Americans.

Like a lot of things on both sides of the issue, this has to be understood in the context of the time. At that time (some would say now as well, to a degree, but that's another issue) Okinawans were not seen as 'really' Japanese. Not equal to mainlanders at any rate. So their 'disposal' in that battle does not indicate with certainty what would have happened in any invasion of Honshu.

People like to make a lot of the whole "they would never surrender!" bit as well, but this too is overdone. Any reading of Japanese history reveals that defeated generals surrendered all the time when that was the only option, and that in general care was usually taken not to destroy civilian populations during wars. Civilian populations throughout Asia were treated brutally by the Japanese military because they were seen as 'not Japanese' and therefore expendable - as horrible as that idea and its consequences were. The civilian population on Honshu would not have been seen that way. That population was already starving, demoralized, and had long since had enough of war before the bombs were dropped. Many people had had enough of it since before the war began, really.

 

[Ernie S.]

Do you have any idea just how many people around the world are "pissed off" with US? Will you welcome the use of WMD on US cities?

The US did not start WWII. They ended it.

... by committing the same crime Nazis committed...

Hardly. The Nazis exterminated millions of their own countrymen without provocation. The US responded to an attack that killed 3,500 members of its Pacific fleet and destroyed a significant part of its Navy.
You can't equate the Holocaust and Hiroshima and retain any semblance of integrity. Sorry.

 

[Unkotare]

WHAT WERE YOU DOING IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE?! Can't you understand that to Iraqis you are INVADERS and ENEMIES? ...

Did you talk to many Iraqis before the war? People who had lived for decades under saddam?