A Question

[mememe]

You are correct. The US did it in Vietnam (be it unsuccessful); it did it in Serbia, in Iraq, in Libya ...

That is an absurdly hyperbolic degree of equivalency.

No, it isn't!
For example, in Serbia only massive campaign of carpet bombing civilian targets (Serbian military was practically intact) made Milosevich to surrender.

 

[mememe]

Mostly false. While civilians inevitably die in war, US policy has been to limit civilian casualties since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Lie!

Against what targets US was using napalm and agent orange in Vietnam?!

And the results of US/NATO bombing campaign of Serbia left Serbian military almost intact, while led to heavy civilian casualties; especially with US use of depleted uranium!

 

[Publius1787]

Because US DELIBERATELY TARGETED CIVILIANS FOR MASS EXTERMINATION.

Funny that you responded to nothing else that I posted. Just the first sentence, completely avoiding the facts that follow. We targeted their war making ability.

There were NO "military ability" in neither cities! The US forced Japanese government to capitulate by exterminating civilians on a mass scale! Same US did in Vietnam, Serbia and Libya! Same it is doing now in Syria, only instead of WMD or carpet bombing of civilians, US uses terrorists and gangs of international rubble...

I dont like to use Wiki anything but I will make an exception in this case. Since its common knowlege to everyone but you.

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of both industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan.[54] His command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly expected.[55] Also present in Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Fifty-Ninth Army, and most of the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[56] The city's air defenses comprised five batteries of 7-and-8-centimetre (2.8 and 3.1 in) anti-aircraft guns.[57]


Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing a pristine environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb.[58]

The center of the city contained several reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small wooden workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. The houses were constructed of wood with tile roofs, and many of the industrial buildings were also built around wood frames. The city as a whole was highly susceptible to fire damage.[59]

The population of Hiroshima had reached a peak of over 381,000 earlier in the war, but prior to the atomic bombing the population had steadily decreased because of a systematic evacuation ordered by the Japanese government. At the time of the attack, the population was approximately 340,000–350,000.[1]

 

[mememe]

Seems to me there was a little to do at Pearl Harbor that got us pissed off at Japan.

Do you have any idea just how many people around the world are "pissed off" with US? Will you welcome the use of WMD on US cities?

 

[Publius1787]

Are you telling me US did not deliberately target civilians in Dresden, Japan, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq and Libya?

Please show me where it was US policy to attack civilians in Iraq, I know you don't know enough about Libya.

Fact is that civilians were targets in WW2. Too fucking bad about that.

But Another point you seem to forget is that Russia never declared war on Japan until after we dropped the first bomb...

And no matter how you try to spin it those bombs did save lives, on both sides....

I'm sorry, but what other purpose is for the use of white phosphorus in a heavily populated cities?! And I know plenty about "civilised" air strikes on civilian infrastructure and other targets in Libya.

Yes, civilians were the targets in WW2, for that Nazis stood NUREMBERG TRIAL!

It must be according to some special US calendar. Because according to a conventional one, US dropped the bombs on the 6 and 9 of August 1945; while in February of 1945 during the Yalta conference the Soviet Union "commits itself to enter the war with Japan, not later than three months after Germany's defeat".
On April the 5-th the Soviet Union denounces a neutrality pact between the USSR and Japan.
And on August the 2-nd the USSR reaffirms its commitment to enter into a war with Japan no later then three month after German capitulation.
That's why US rushed through their bombing of Japan: they did not want the Soviets there.

Are you going to be happy for WMD to be used on US cities to "save lives on both sides"?

I know a purpose for WP! Its impossible to stop it from burning! Great stuff. Really effective.

 

[mememe]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

How can a WORLD war be without the participation of the main players of three out of five (by some account -- six) continents?!

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

In comparison to the tokyo firebombings and other similar air raids which result in firestorms, no.

Did America commit war crimes by dropping specially designed firebombs on Japan's wooden cities? Probably.

 

[Publius1787]

Mostly false. While civilians inevitably die in war, US policy has been to limit civilian casualties since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Lie!

Against what targets US was using napalm and agent orange in Vietnam?!

And the results of US/NATO bombing campaign of Serbia left Serbian military almost intact, while led to heavy civilian casualties; especially with US use of depleted uranium!

Napalm! good stuff! Hard to miss your target with napalm! Depleated uranium? Never hurt me when I was fireing those grey tipped .50 cal rounds in Iraq.

 

[mememe]

Funny that you responded to nothing else that I posted. Just the first sentence, completely avoiding the facts that follow. We targeted their war making ability.

There were NO "military ability" in neither cities! The US forced Japanese government to capitulate by exterminating civilians on a mass scale! Same US did in Vietnam, Serbia and Libya! Same it is doing now in Syria, only instead of WMD or carpet bombing of civilians, US uses terrorists and gangs of international rubble...

I dont like to use Wiki anything but I will make an exception in this case. Since its common knowlege to everyone but you.

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of both industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan.[54] His command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly expected.[55] Also present in Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Fifty-Ninth Army, and most of the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[56] The city's air defenses comprised five batteries of 7-and-8-centimetre (2.8 and 3.1 in) anti-aircraft guns.[57]


Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing a pristine environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb.[58]

The center of the city contained several reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small wooden workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. The houses were constructed of wood with tile roofs, and many of the industrial buildings were also built around wood frames. The city as a whole was highly susceptible to fire damage.[59]

The population of Hiroshima had reached a peak of over 381,000 earlier in the war, but prior to the atomic bombing the population had steadily decreased because of a systematic evacuation ordered by the Japanese government. At the time of the attack, the population was approximately 340,000–350,000.[1]

In other words, even according to YOUR source, Hiroshima was a MINOR supply and logistics base, while Nagasaki is not mentioned at all!
As for your "near", -- in Japan everything is "near" -- it's a small country. And to use WMD on two largest CIVILIAN cities (not military bases) is a crime against humanity, especially after putting Nazis on trial for the same crimes!

 

[Publius1787]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

How can a WORLD war be without the participation of the main players of three out of five (by some account -- six) continents?!

Antartica, Narnia, and Liberal fantasy land do not count as continets for participation in WWII.

 

[mememe]

Please show me where it was US policy to attack civilians in Iraq, I know you don't know enough about Libya.

Fact is that civilians were targets in WW2. Too fucking bad about that.

But Another point you seem to forget is that Russia never declared war on Japan until after we dropped the first bomb...

And no matter how you try to spin it those bombs did save lives, on both sides....

I'm sorry, but what other purpose is for the use of white phosphorus in a heavily populated cities?! And I know plenty about "civilised" air strikes on civilian infrastructure and other targets in Libya.

Yes, civilians were the targets in WW2, for that Nazis stood NUREMBERG TRIAL!

It must be according to some special US calendar. Because according to a conventional one, US dropped the bombs on the 6 and 9 of August 1945; while in February of 1945 during the Yalta conference the Soviet Union "commits itself to enter the war with Japan, not later than three months after Germany's defeat".
On April the 5-th the Soviet Union denounces a neutrality pact between the USSR and Japan.
And on August the 2-nd the USSR reaffirms its commitment to enter into a war with Japan no later then three month after German capitulation.
That's why US rushed through their bombing of Japan: they did not want the Soviets there.

Are you going to be happy for WMD to be used on US cities to "save lives on both sides"?

I know a purpose for WP! Its impossible to stop it from burning! Great stuff. Really effective.

Would you be happy to use it on US cities?

 

[Unkotare]

When a series of civil wars broke out in Yugoslavia -- the first victim of coloured revolutions...

That hardly constitutes WWIII.

It was the beginning of what we see now: a slow but sure merger of local wars into one big chaos of destabilised world where US will be seen as the only island of calm and stability fit for investments...

This is the History forum. You are looking for the Conspiracy Theory forum. Take a sharp left turn and keep going, you can't miss it.

 

[Unkotare]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

Got a link to a prominent historian who does so?

 

[Publius1787]

There were NO "military ability" in neither cities! The US forced Japanese government to capitulate by exterminating civilians on a mass scale! Same US did in Vietnam, Serbia and Libya! Same it is doing now in Syria, only instead of WMD or carpet bombing of civilians, US uses terrorists and gangs of international rubble...

I dont like to use Wiki anything but I will make an exception in this case. Since its common knowlege to everyone but you.

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of both industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan.[54] His command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly expected.[55] Also present in Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Fifty-Ninth Army, and most of the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[56] The city's air defenses comprised five batteries of 7-and-8-centimetre (2.8 and 3.1 in) anti-aircraft guns.[57]


Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing a pristine environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb.[58]

The center of the city contained several reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small wooden workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. The houses were constructed of wood with tile roofs, and many of the industrial buildings were also built around wood frames. The city as a whole was highly susceptible to fire damage.[59]

The population of Hiroshima had reached a peak of over 381,000 earlier in the war, but prior to the atomic bombing the population had steadily decreased because of a systematic evacuation ordered by the Japanese government. At the time of the attack, the population was approximately 340,000–350,000.[1]

In other words, even according to YOUR source, Hiroshima was a MINOR supply and logistics base, while Nagasaki is not mentioned at all!
As for your "near", -- in Japan everything is "near" -- it's a small country. And to use WMD on two largest CIVILIAN cities (not military bases) is a crime against humanity, especially after putting Nazis on trial for the same crimes!

Yep. We ended the war and saved millions of Japanses lives. Dont get me wrong, I feel your pain (not really) and understand that your hatred for the US and feelings toward how we are viewd in the world surpass that line between right and wrong. To be honest, I didnt think to include common knowlege and prefer not to debate it. In my view, your argument isnt worth my time or effort. Your crying about something that saved more Japanese lives than American. I dont see what all the fuss is about. And your Nazi comparison is so out of this world its funny.

 

[mememe]

That hardly constitutes WWIII.

It was the beginning of what we see now: a slow but sure merger of local wars into one big chaos of destabilised world where US will be seen as the only island of calm and stability fit for investments...

This is the History forum. You are looking for the Conspiracy Theory forum. Take a sharp left turn and keep going, you can't miss it.

Try to understand that US mantra of "conspiracy theory" doesn't work outside of US.

That aside, are you about to tell me that US did not set alight central Europe, Africa, ME and is about to move onto central Asia?! What do you think is happening around your "big island" USA? Are you really buying into "spreading democracy" and "bombing into freedom" of so many countries in just the past 20 years?

 

[Unkotare]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

Yet another great reason we used the bomb against such a culture. I forgot about the second Sino-Japanses War.

You're saying the atomic bombs were dropped in revenge on behalf of China? And the goal was to bomb a "culture"?

 

[Unkotare]

It was the beginning of what we see now: a slow but sure merger of local wars into one big chaos of destabilised world where US will be seen as the only island of calm and stability fit for investments...

This is the History forum. You are looking for the Conspiracy Theory forum. Take a sharp left turn and keep going, you can't miss it.

Try to understand that US mantra of "conspiracy theory" doesn't work outside of US.

Try to understand that I, and most of my fellow countrymen, do not give a shit what "works" for asinine conspiracy theorists outside the US. You have just typed your way to utter irrelevancy.

 

[mememe]

Yep. We ended the war and saved millions of Japanses lives.

 

[Publius1787]

I'm sorry, but what other purpose is for the use of white phosphorus in a heavily populated cities?! And I know plenty about "civilised" air strikes on civilian infrastructure and other targets in Libya.

Yes, civilians were the targets in WW2, for that Nazis stood NUREMBERG TRIAL!

It must be according to some special US calendar. Because according to a conventional one, US dropped the bombs on the 6 and 9 of August 1945; while in February of 1945 during the Yalta conference the Soviet Union "commits itself to enter the war with Japan, not later than three months after Germany's defeat".
On April the 5-th the Soviet Union denounces a neutrality pact between the USSR and Japan.
And on August the 2-nd the USSR reaffirms its commitment to enter into a war with Japan no later then three month after German capitulation.
That's why US rushed through their bombing of Japan: they did not want the Soviets there.

Are you going to be happy for WMD to be used on US cities to "save lives on both sides"?

I know a purpose for WP! Its impossible to stop it from burning! Great stuff. Really effective.

Would you be happy to use it on US cities?

Of course not. I wasn't happy shooting insurgents in iraq. I thought I would be, but what can I say; its a nasty business. Why would I be happy about using WP? If we were to fight wars as we would want one fought against us we would be in the field with nerf guns and our enemies with Ak 47's. Perhaps that your fantasy but I live in the world of reality.

 

[Ernie S.]

Mostly false. While civilians inevitably die in war, US policy has been to limit civilian casualties since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Lie!

Against what targets US was using napalm and agent orange in Vietnam?!

And the results of US/NATO bombing campaign of Serbia left Serbian military almost intact, while led to heavy civilian casualties; especially with US use of depleted uranium!

Against military targets hiding in a jungle. Sure, civilians got killed because of their proximity to valid military targets, but That was mostly due to the Viet Cong hiding among the civilians for cover. Ugly shit happens in war, but when you are unsure of just who is civilian and who isn't, people die. Are you comfortable waiting to get shot at before you take steps to stay alive? I'm not.

You still are avoiding stating your location. I would like to know where you call home so I might learn something of your perspective and why it seems you hate my country so much.