A question to all Christians

[Cecilie1200]

My church is an accepting and open church.We do not judge anyone and state they are an abomination for their beliefs or sexual orientation. We find no where in The Bible where Jesus stated anything bad about gays.
Why do many of you claim we are wrong when Jesus is the reason we celebrate life?
Why are all of you so infatuated with someone else's sex life?
What does that have to do with being a Christian? How is it being Christlike condemning gay folks?

Why do we claim you're wrong? Well, for starters, because you haven't bothered to learn a damned thing about other religions before hossing your self-righteous ass in here and proclaiming how much better your church is for not doing things that we don't do, either. The Bible, and churches who teach the Bible as written, say that homosexuality is an abomination, not homosexuals. The practice, not the person. And no, that is not mere hairsplitting.

I fail to see what "Jesus is the reason we celebrate life" has to do with your topic whatsoever.

There's no "infatuated with someone else's sex life" about this. Acts are either wrong or they aren't, and they aren't somehow exempted from discernment about right and wrong simply because they are sex acts. Surely you aren't trying to say that sex isn't important enough for God to deem some sexual acts as sinful?

Perhaps YOU can tell ME how it's Christlike to wander around gormlessly, afraid to take a stand on actions for fear that you might be seen as "judging someone". And why is it that your splendiferous hasn't bothered to teach you the difference between judging an act and judging a person?

Oh, one more thing. If your church really taught you that you could just read the specific words of Christ and ignore the entire rest of the book, then you should demand your offering money back. If they taught you that nothing in the words of Christ could be seen as objecting to homosexuality, then you should sue them for fraud.

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (John 5:46-47.)

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (Mark 7:20-23)

 

[Cecilie1200]

What we are saying is to be Christlike.
Show me where Jesus Christ said anything about homosexuality being a sin and your post will have some credibility.
As of now it has zero credibility.

You do not get it.

There are plenty of websites that explain this. Just do a google search. Here's one:

theBible.net - Did Jesus Ever Condemn Homosexuality?

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus also didn't say anything about birth control, Toyotas or iPods.

It's spelled out quite clearly in many places, including this:

Since Jesus was born and lived under the Law of Moses, and since He endorsed the Law of Moses, and since the Law of Moses explicitly condemned homosexuality, then could we correctly say that Jesus also condemned it?

It's really funny how some people subscribe to the idea that if Jesus didn't say {whatever} is wrong, it's okay to do it. For example, there are some churches today that don't allow music to be played in church because there is no mention of music being played in early Christian churches. Seriously, how dumb is that?

You call this funny? You have a sick sense of humor.
Let me tell you and the other uninformed and cruel people what is not funny. I know and work with many gay and lesbian people and have a few in my large and extended family.
We are sick and tired of you and anyone that calls people we consider as friends and family immoral and an abomination because some old Jewish custom states they are.
Accordingly, be prepared to be bombarded with the fact that the majority of these people that are now living who they are have the full support of their friends, neighbors and community in most instances. Get used to it.
We will support equal treatment of all Americans and will not stand by and allow you or anyone to attack any American by labeling them immoral because of how they were born without being challenged each and every time you do so. Get used to it.
Each and every time you insult a fellow Christian and church member of mine you insult me. My faith does not tolerate that.

You really need to pull on your big-boy Underoos and learn to conduct a debate without getting all childishly butthurt and screeching. And "I have friends and relatives who are gay" is not an argument that homosexuality isn't a sin.

 

[Oscar Wao]

I guess the difference is that I believe in the Bible and you don't. I believe in the scriptures that condemn it while you believe that the scriptures that condemn it were inaccurate.

End of story. Believe what you want but believing in a half correct book is a shaky foundation IMO.

The Bible isn't inaccurate.

It's how fallen man has examined the Bible that is inaccurate.

Easy now, don't go hurting the prideful arrogance of infallible man. It's best to err on the side of calling God a liar.

I was speaking to you as well.

The issue of "laying with man," "sodomites," et cetera has to do with shrine prostitution, promiscuity, and paganism, not necessarily homosexual orientation or relationships.

I'm not being completely prideful about how I've come to this conclusion after research and Biblical examination, but it's the conclusion I've arrived at so far.

 

[eots]

My church is an accepting and open church.We do not judge anyone and state they are an abomination for their beliefs or sexual orientation. We find no where in The Bible where Jesus stated anything bad about gays.
Why do many of you claim we are wrong when Jesus is the reason we celebrate life?
Why are all of you so infatuated with someone else's sex life?
What does that have to do with being a Christian? How is it being Christlike condemning gay folks?

so what if what if their beliefs are anti-christan..what if their sexual orientation is to be a whore or underage children or animals...still all good...why are homosexuals so infatuated with their sexuality they have to paraded it down main street in ass-less chaps ? and having a strong desire to teach it to our children as a reasonable alternative ?

 

[Dr Grump]

so what if their sexual orientation is to be a whore or underage children or animals...still all good...why are homosexuals so infatuated with their sexuality they have to paraded it down mainstreet in assless chaps ?
and having a strong desire to teach it to our children as a reasonable alternative ?

Strawman arguments - all three of them...Whoring is a personal choice...


children are not at the age of consent, nor can animals..

homosexuality is a fact of life. We can ignore it, ostracise those who practice it, or realise that is some of the way people are hardwired..

I have a problem with people who have a problem with it....nobodies business but their own..

Ironically it's the 'freedom loving' conservatives who seem to have a problem with it...

 

[Dr Grump]

End of story. Believe what you want but believing in a half correct book is a shaky foundation IMO.

It's probably not best to believe in it at all....

 

[eots]

so what if their sexual orientation is to be a whore or underage children or animals...still all good...why are homosexuals so infatuated with their sexuality they have to paraded it down mainstreet in assless chaps ?
and having a strong desire to teach it to our children as a reasonable alternative ?

Strawman arguments - all three of them...Whoring is a personal choice...


children are not at the age of consent, nor can animals..

homosexuality is a fact of life. We can ignore it, ostracise those who practice it, or realise that is some of the way people are hardwired..

I have a problem with people who have a problem with it....nobodies business but their own..

Ironically it's the 'freedom loving' conservatives who seem to have a problem with it...

well there is lots of underage sex in the bible..its a personal choice that we as parents can caution against a unhealthily lifestyle like homosexuality and people are free to be homosexual but they are not free to tell others it has to viewed as an acceptable or desirable to teach it to grade school children

 

[eots]

if its a hardwired genetic defect why was in rampant in societies like ancient Rome ?

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't see it as a genetic defect. I see it as genetic.

How rampant was it?

 

[Gadawg73]

And I have no idea what sort of faith you have, btw. You've proven here that you're clueless about the contents of the bible. Additionally, I can think of no Christian denomination where members are encouraged to say things like "Our faith doesn't tolerate that". It's as if you place your faith above God and the bible, and it's hinky.

Clueless about the contents of the Bible? LOL
I took Bible classes all through private and military school asit was mandatory.
I place people and being Christlike over a book that states YOU are a sinner for eating a pork BBQ sandwich, shrimp or oysters.
The Bible is full of inacurracies. Try getting some objective education for a change. Government schools will not get you where you obviously need to be.
Get used to it. Our churches are GROWING while others are losing members.
Hate sucks.

Let me get this straight. You believe in a book that you believe is inacurate. LOL

No wonder why people laugh at Christians.

It would help your credibility if you could provide some evidence where I stated what you claim.
To date you are at zero. The good news is there is only way to go and that is up.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jesus also didn't say anything about birth control, Toyotas or iPods.

It's spelled out quite clearly in many places, including this:

Since Jesus was born and lived under the Law of Moses, and since He endorsed the Law of Moses, and since the Law of Moses explicitly condemned homosexuality, then could we correctly say that Jesus also condemned it?

It's really funny how some people subscribe to the idea that if Jesus didn't say {whatever} is wrong, it's okay to do it. For example, there are some churches today that don't allow music to be played in church because there is no mention of music being played in early Christian churches. Seriously, how dumb is that?

You call this funny? You have a sick sense of humor.
Let me tell you and the other uninformed and cruel people what is not funny. I know and work with many gay and lesbian people and have a few in my large and extended family.
We are sick and tired of you and anyone that calls people we consider as friends and family immoral and an abomination because some old Jewish custom states they are.
Accordingly, be prepared to be bombarded with the fact that the majority of these people that are now living who they are have the full support of their friends, neighbors and community in most instances. Get used to it.
We will support equal treatment of all Americans and will not stand by and allow you or anyone to attack any American by labeling them immoral because of how they were born without being challenged each and every time you do so. Get used to it.
Each and every time you insult a fellow Christian and church member of mine you insult me. My faith does not tolerate that.

And I used to attend a predominately gay church for a year and a half. Just stop with your faux outrage . Your overinflated sense of morality is tiresome. The Bible says what it says. I can't change that and neither can you.

Get used to it. It isn't fake.
As an American I stand for equalty for all. Join us.
The Bible was translated through ordinary scribes influenced by the politics of the day. If you do not admit that then you are a fake.

 

[Gadawg73]

My church is an accepting and open church.We do not judge anyone and state they are an abomination for their beliefs or sexual orientation. We find no where in The Bible where Jesus stated anything bad about gays.
Why do many of you claim we are wrong when Jesus is the reason we celebrate life?
Why are all of you so infatuated with someone else's sex life?
What does that have to do with being a Christian? How is it being Christlike condemning gay folks?

My church is "conservative" on the gay issue.

The Bible is right in the translation of abomination. However, the context has been screwed up.

The whole issue is mainly about promiscuity and pagan tample prostitution, NOT homosexual orientation or relationships per se.

So, yes, pagan sexual ethic and doing anything to worship a false god is an abomination, since God is a Jealous God and only demands worship for hHim.

I respect that 100%.

 

[CMike]

There are plenty of websites that explain this. Just do a google search. Here's one:

theBible.net - Did Jesus Ever Condemn Homosexuality?

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.

Which Bible are you reading? Where does it (the Bible) say that He did not obey the laws of his day?

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

 

[Gunny]

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

 

[Gadawg73]

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

Caiaphas convicted Jesus for disobeying Jewish civil and religous law and his authority during Passover. As de-facto ruler of the entire Jewish religon he could not afford with anyone challenging his authority when the city was full of a half million Jews for Passover. The Sanhedrin controlled all Jewish civil and religous law and he was supreme council of that.
Of course the Sanhedrin could not operate without support and approval from Rome and they kissed their ass. Romelooked the other way and contributed to Jesus' death.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

You are absolutely correct but the Romans held the power and they ran the area and Caiaphas answered to them first.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

My church is an accepting and open church.We do not judge anyone and state they are an abomination for their beliefs or sexual orientation. We find no where in The Bible where Jesus stated anything bad about gays.
Why do many of you claim we are wrong when Jesus is the reason we celebrate life?
Why are all of you so infatuated with someone else's sex life?
What does that have to do with being a Christian? How is it being Christlike condemning gay folks?

Sounds like a great Church... Of course... that assumes a rather loose representation of 'Church'...

I mean it's a word which is typically associated with Christianity... Christ's flock... His church...

And the last time I checked, Christ was God... and as far as I know; Christ was very explicit in his position that he did not come to revise any laws which he had formerly laid down.

Such as the rules regarding homosexuality to which were spoken in Leviticus: 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Further noting in the same book in Chapter 20; verse 13... "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Thus the notion that 'Christ didn't condemn homosexuality' is a spurious and thorough representation of the facts. Christ didn't specifically speak to most things... Nothing specific with regard to Pedophilia, or Serial Killing; he didn't have anything to say about cross-dressing or the abominations known as the AMC Gremlin or Ford Pacer... Yet these are all distinct facets of evil... each demonstrating the failure of the individual that advocates for such to bear the responsibilities inherent in their God-given rights...

YA might want to revise the name of your 'church' to something which better reflects the evil you're perpetuating.

You're given the right to choose your own path; but you've a responsibility to not influence others towards their own ruin...

 

[Oscar Wao]

Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.

Which Bible are you reading? Where does it (the Bible) say that He did not obey the laws of his day?

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.