A question for Muslims

[PoliticalChic]

I've never heard of this David Pryce-Jones and am not sure why you would you would consider him a reliable expert on Arabs but I would like to point out to you that not all Muslims are Arabs nor or all Arabs Muslims.

Pryce-Jones considers as an additional retarding factor in Arab society the influence of Islam, which hinders efforts to built a Western style society

Typical western arrogance

This guy is saying that western society is the pinnicle of all human culture.

So all of the brown people of the world must copy the society and culture of the west to be considered a success?

Isn't this the same mind set that led to the almost total genocide of the American Indian?

Now, you know that he is merely saying that Western culture is more advanced and results in happier individuals than the 7th century repressive atavistic culture.

What genocide are you thinking of? Certainlly not the accidental deaths that resulted from diseases that the American Indians were inadvertently exposed to?

 

[Ravi]

Still not comprehending what makes Muslims riot when a picture of Mo is printed that they didn't print themselves.

 

[Anguille]

"In his 1989 book The Closed Circle, Pryce-Jones examined what he considered to be the reasons for the backward state of the Arab world[4] A review described the book as more of an "indictment" then an examination of the Arab world[5] In Pryce-Jones's opinion, the root cause of Arab backwardness is tribal nature of Arab political life, which reduces all politics to war of rival families struggling mercilessly for power[6] As such, power in Pryce-Jones's view is consists of a network of client-patron relations between powerful and less powerful families and clans[7] Pryce-Jones considers as an additional retarding factor in Arab society the influence of Islam, which hinders efforts to built a Western style society where the family and clan are not the dominant political unit[8] Pryce-Jones argues that Islamic fundamentalism is a means of attempting to mobilize the masses behind the dominant clans[9]"
David Pryce-Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since you made no point, I'm wondering if you would like to contend that " no inventions or discoveries in the sciences or the arts, no contribution to medicine or philosophy..." is untrue.

Further, consider that there are about as many Spanish speakers as there are Arabic speakers, but more books are translated into Spanish in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in the last millennia.

Do you see any significance to this fact?

I see significance to your obvious hatred of Arabs.

Is David Pryce-Jones a pal of Ann Coulter?

So, using your crystal ball?

I see no hatred, merely a far greater understanding and knowledge than you evince.

Since you, for some unknown reason, dislike Pryce-Jones, try Dalrymple, or Glazov:
Dr. Glazov, in “United in Hate”states: “The inhabitants of this culture suffer an excruciating dissonance: while convinced that their values and way of life are superior to those of the West, they must witness, in every facet of human existence, a contrary reality.” Theodore Dalrymple reminds us that OBL himself is dependent on the West for his weapons, communications, travel and funds.
And, from Dalrymple: “You can’t believe in a return to 7th century Arabia as being all-sufficient for human requirements, and at the same time drive around in a brand-new red Mercedes, as one of the London bombers did…An awareness of the contradiction must gnaw in even the dullest fundamentalist brain.”

The direction indicated is that this very backward faith results in severe limitations on the talents and abilites of a billion people, and sentences them to a primitive, nihilistic, and dangerous existence.

Try to exchange views rather than casting aspersions.

Claiming that I "hate" is a very weak argument as a counter to the points above. Try harder.

Ok, maybe you just despise them.

Or you could just tell us how feel about Arabs, or Muslims, or whoever it is you are talking about, and set the record straight.

 

[Anguille]

Still not comprehending what makes Muslims riot when a picture of Mo is printed that they didn't print themselves.

The same lunatic reason any frindge fundamentalist sect does anything outrageous. They are .

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've never heard of this David Pryce-Jones and am not sure why you would you would consider him a reliable expert on Arabs but I would like to point out to you that not all Muslims are Arabs nor or all Arabs Muslims.

Further, consider that there are about as many Spanish speakers as there are Arabic speakers, but more books are translated into Spanish in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in the last millennia.

Do you see any significance to this fact?

Point #1) about 90% of the worlds muslim are NOT arabs and do not speak arabic

Point#2) Basically, every arabic country was a colony of one of the european countries.

So most arabic people also speak a second european language.

All higher education schools forced the people to use the colonial power's language for instruction.

Thus there is No need to re-copy the books in arabic, because they were already available in the second language of the different arab nations.

Your post is pure obfuscation. I understand the shame.

Point #1) I commented only on Arabic speakers.
Point #2) Every Arabic country practices Islam.

There are 500 universities in the Moslem world (57 countries), only 2% attended.
There are almost 6000 universities in the US.

90% literacy in the Christian world.
40% liteacy in the Moslem world.

o In the entire Muslim World (57 Muslim Countries) there are only 500 universities.
o In USA alone, 5,758 universities
o In India alone, 8,407 universities
o Not one university in the entire Islamic World features in the Top 500 Ranking Universities of the World
o Literacy in the Christian World 90%
o Literacy in the Muslim World 40%
o 15 Christian majority-countries, literacy rate 100%
o Muslim majority - countries , None
o 98% in Christian countries completed primary
o Only 50% in Muslim countries completed primary.
o 40% in Christian countries attended university
o In Muslim countries a dismal 2% attended.
o Muslim majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims
o The USA has 5000 per million
o The Christian world 1000 technicians per million.
o Entire Arab World only 50 technicians per million.
o Muslim World spends on research/developmen t 0.2% of GDP
o Christian World spends 5 % of GDP
Muslim World is failing to apply knowledge | Facebook

 

[Sunni Man]

Pryce-Jones considers as an additional retarding factor in Arab society the influence of Islam, which hinders efforts to built a Western style society

Typical western arrogance

This guy is saying that western society is the pinnicle of all human culture.

So all of the brown people of the world must copy the society and culture of the west to be considered a success?

Isn't this the same mind set that led to the almost total genocide of the American Indian?

What genocide are you thinking of? Certainlly not the accidental deaths that resulted from diseases that the American Indians were inadvertently exposed to?

Was the "Trail of Tears" also inadvertent and accidental??

 

[PoliticalChic]

I see significance to your obvious hatred of Arabs.

Is David Pryce-Jones a pal of Ann Coulter?

So, using your crystal ball?

I see no hatred, merely a far greater understanding and knowledge than you evince.

Since you, for some unknown reason, dislike Pryce-Jones, try Dalrymple, or Glazov:
Dr. Glazov, in “United in Hate”states: “The inhabitants of this culture suffer an excruciating dissonance: while convinced that their values and way of life are superior to those of the West, they must witness, in every facet of human existence, a contrary reality.” Theodore Dalrymple reminds us that OBL himself is dependent on the West for his weapons, communications, travel and funds.
And, from Dalrymple: “You can’t believe in a return to 7th century Arabia as being all-sufficient for human requirements, and at the same time drive around in a brand-new red Mercedes, as one of the London bombers did…An awareness of the contradiction must gnaw in even the dullest fundamentalist brain.”

The direction indicated is that this very backward faith results in severe limitations on the talents and abilites of a billion people, and sentences them to a primitive, nihilistic, and dangerous existence.

Try to exchange views rather than casting aspersions.

Claiming that I "hate" is a very weak argument as a counter to the points above. Try harder.

Ok, maybe you just despise them.

Or you could just tell us how feel about Arabs, or Muslims, or whoever it is you are talking about, and set the record straight.

You're pretty good at dancing, but not too good at showing any knowledge.

The direction indicated is that this very backward faith results in severe limitations on the talents and abilites of a billion people, and sentences them to a primitive, nihilistic, and dangerous existence.

Unless ad hominem is your only ability, please show which of my points you can counter.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Typical western arrogance

This guy is saying that western society is the pinnicle of all human culture.

So all of the brown people of the world must copy the society and culture of the west to be considered a success?

Isn't this the same mind set that led to the almost total genocide of the American Indian?

What genocide are you thinking of? Certainlly not the accidental deaths that resulted from diseases that the American Indians were inadvertently exposed to?

Was the "Trail of Tears" also inadvertent and accidental??

one incident as terrible as the trail of tears does not a genocide make.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Typical western arrogance

This guy is saying that western society is the pinnicle of all human culture.

So all of the brown people of the world must copy the society and culture of the west to be considered a success?

Isn't this the same mind set that led to the almost total genocide of the American Indian?

What genocide are you thinking of? Certainlly not the accidental deaths that resulted from diseases that the American Indians were inadvertently exposed to?

Was the "Trail of Tears" also inadvertent and accidental??

Can I assume that you admit total error in both the statement about genocide, since you have not substantiated same, and also agree to the superiority of Western culture, since you did not comment on my other point?

 

[Anguille]

Islam is an artless religion.

I guess that depends what you define as art.

The music, sculpture, paintings, writing and architecture inspired by religion are some of the most magnificent works ever.

You just don't see that type of passionately inspired creativity in the Muslim world.

Copying the Koran and changing the squiggles in the margins can hardly be called art of the same magnitude as the Sistine chapel.

I think it just a matter of personal taste, Skull. I've been in many famous churches and a few mosques and on the whole, I prefer the mosques.
The Sistine Chapel may be lovely but have you seen the rest of the Vatican? Just about the gaudiest bit of ostentation I've ever seen! Most famous churches I've visited disappointed me with either too much gloom and dinginess and horrid depictions of crucifixion and gore. Or a hodgepodge of gaudy gilded gew gaws and mismatched marble.

Mosques, on the other hand are usually as beautiful on the inside as they are on the outside. And no creepy corpses on crosses or other exaltations of masochism to turn your stomach.

 

[Red Walker]

Sunni Man,

I was hoping that you would respond to my queries regarding your statements on the prohibition of pictures and such within the Muslim faith. Additionally, I would like to ask about the posters carried by supporters of many clerics throughout the Mideast. Why does this seemed to be allowed and even encouraged? Also, how are you able to post pics (ex. Ann Coulter on toilet paper) with your replies? I seem to have difficulty understanding what ''pictures are forbidden'' means.

Thanks

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni Man,

I was hoping that you would respond to my queries regarding your statements on the prohibition of pictures and such within the Muslim faith. Additionally, I would like to ask about the posters carried by supporters of many clerics throughout the Mideast. Why does this seemed to be allowed and even encouraged? Also, how are you able to post pics (ex. Ann Coulter on toilet paper) with your replies? I seem to have difficulty understanding what ''pictures are forbidden'' means.

85% of the worlds muslims are Sunni

When I talk about muslims and Islam. I am comming from the Sunni theological position.

Sunni Islam has NO leader or heirarchy of Imams



The other 15% of muslims are various versions of Shia muslims.

Iran is the only totally run Shia nation.

When you see posters of clerics carried by protesters. It is usually in Iran or Shite dominated southern Iraq.

Shia Islam has a complete hierarchy of Ayatolas and cleric that they revere and obey.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni Man,

I was hoping that you would respond to my queries regarding your statements on the prohibition of pictures and such within the Muslim faith. Additionally, I would like to ask about the posters carried by supporters of many clerics throughout the Mideast. Why does this seemed to be allowed and even encouraged? Also, how are you able to post pics (ex. Ann Coulter on toilet paper) with your replies? I seem to have difficulty understanding what ''pictures are forbidden'' means.

Thanks

To answer your other question.

You will NEVER find pictures of people or animals in any Mosque.

Also, there are No such pictures in any "religious" muslims home.

 

[Anguille]

Sunni Man,

I was hoping that you would respond to my queries regarding your statements on the prohibition of pictures and such within the Muslim faith. Additionally, I would like to ask about the posters carried by supporters of many clerics throughout the Mideast. Why does this seemed to be allowed and even encouraged? Also, how are you able to post pics (ex. Ann Coulter on toilet paper) with your replies? I seem to have difficulty understanding what ''pictures are forbidden'' means.

Thanks

To answer your other question.

You will NEVER find pictures of people or animals in any Mosque.

Also, there are No such pictures in any "religious" muslims home.

once again ... WRONG!

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni Man,

I was hoping that you would respond to my queries regarding your statements on the prohibition of pictures and such within the Muslim faith. Additionally, I would like to ask about the posters carried by supporters of many clerics throughout the Mideast. Why does this seemed to be allowed and even encouraged? Also, how are you able to post pics (ex. Ann Coulter on toilet paper) with your replies? I seem to have difficulty understanding what ''pictures are forbidden'' means.

Thanks

To answer your other question.

You will NEVER find pictures of people or animals in any Mosque.

Also, there are No such pictures in any "religious" muslims home.

once again ... WRONG!

 

[Anguille]

Maybe you missed my previous post.

One of the 10 Commandments in the Bible is "Thou shall have No graven images"

The Quran also has the same proibition.

It is just not Muhammad, but all pictures of anyone.

If you go into a Muslim home.

There are NO pictures or paintings of family members, people, animals, birds, etc.

Pictures of buildings, mountians, landscapes, etc, are allowed.

Only in Muslim homes that subscribe to those kinds of prohibitions. Not all Muslims are so rigid.

How many muslim homes have you been in?


No pictures is not being ridged in Islam.

It is just a basic prohibition

Much like the not eating of pork.

It's a tenant the defines someone as a muslim.

Several. You are typical of an overzealous convert. You try so hard to be a "good" Muslim that you take things to extremes that average Muslims who are comfortable in their faith would not go to.

There are many, many examples of depiction of people, animals and even Muhammad in Islamic art. Have you never seen a Mughul illustrated manuscript? Or calligraphy done in the shape of a bird or horse?
Depictions of Muhammad

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search


A series of articles on


Prophet of Islam
Muhammad

The permissibility of depictions of Muhammad, the founder of Islam, has long been a concern in Islam's history. Oral and written descriptions are readily accepted by all traditions of Islam, but there is disagreement about visual depictions.[1][2]
The Qur'an does not explicitly forbid images of Muhammad, but there are a few hadith (supplemental traditions) which have explicitly prohibited Muslims from creating the visual depictions of figures under any circumstances. Most contemporary Sunni Muslims believe that visual depictions of the prophets generally should be prohibited, and they are particularly averse to visual representations of Muhammad.[3] The key concern is that the use of images can encourage idolatry, where the image becomes more important than what it represents. In Islamic art, some visual depictions only show Muhammad with his face veiled, or symbolically represent him as a flame; other images, notably from Persia of the Ilkhanate, and those made under the Ottomans, show him fully.[1]
Other Muslims have taken a more relaxed view. Most Shi'a scholars accept respectful depictions and use illustrations of Muhammad in books and architectural decoration, as have Sunnis at various points in the past.[4] However, many Muslims who take a stricter view of the supplemental traditions, will sometimes challenge any depiction of Muhammad, including those created and published by non-Muslims.[5]

Some major religions have had times in their history when images of their religious figures were forbidden. In Judaism, one of the Ten Commandments forbade "graven images." In Byzantine Christianity during the period of Iconoclasm (8th century, and again during the 9th century) visual representations were forbidden, and only the Cross could be depicted in churches. Even in modern times, there are disputes within different groups of Protestant Christians about the appropriateness of having religious icons of saints. The concern generally boils down to the concept of whether or not the image is becoming more important than what is being represented. [6] In Islam, although nothing in the Qu'ran explicitly bans images, there are some supplemental hadith which explicitly ban the drawing of images of any living creature; other hadith tolerate images, but never encourage them. Hence, visual depictions of Muhammad, or prophets such as Moses or Abraham, are avoided."

Depictions of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunni Man]

You keep bringing up the Mughuls of several hundred years ago to back up your position.

They were a mixture of Shia Islam and other non Islamic beliefs and heresy

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you Anguille

If you want to claim that the typical muslim home is full of pictures. Then so be it.

 

[Anguille]

You keep bringing up the Mughuls of several hundred years ago to back up your position.

They were a mixture of Shia Islam and other non Islamic beliefs and heresy

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you Anguille

If you want to claim that the typical muslim home is full of pictures. Then so be it.

Well Jeez! No need to get your burka in a twist!!

Whether one has pictures in one's home or not is hardly the determining factor in whether one is a good Muslim or not. What's more important is that one treat his fellow humans with respect and compassion as a good Muslim should.

 

[Red Walker]

Ok.. thanks..

So.. I know that Osama was raised as a Wahhabi Muslim in Saudi Arabia, but fairly certain that many of his followers are Sunni Muslims, correct? Why is it ok for them to create and distribute video and audio of him? What about creating and distributing video of them beheading people?

Can you help me understand why each (Sunni and Shiites) are so certain that their particular brand of Islam is the ''true'' religion that they feel compelled to slaughter one another?

Do you feel compelled to answer the call to ''jihad''? I mean.. do you feel compelled by your beliefs to slaughter people because they do not believe as you do about God/Allah?

Thanks

 

[Kalam]

I believe that the Muslim world would be more advanced, enlightened if you will, if the religion they choose to follow was not so repressive and the Islamic governments not so oppressive and all types of creativity and free thinking were encouraged not forbidden.

The iron fist of Islamic governments has reduced not enhanced that region of the world.

There was a time when Baghdad, and Beirut were compared to Paris as cultural centers of art, science and commerce. Certainly Islam and Islamic governments have had a hand in the demise of these once great cities.

How so? All of the momentous discoveries of the Islamic Golden Age took place within the framework of "Islamic" caliphates. You seem to be under the impression that these innovations came about before the advent and spread of Islam; this is incorrect. The Arabian peninsula was united while Muhammad was alive. Slightly more than 100 years later, the caliphate's territory extended to Morocco and Iberia in the West, the Caucasus in the North, and part of the Indian subcontinent in the east. If the Islamic religion inhibits development, why did it those regions experience such prosperity under Islam?

You've also incorrectly assumed that Islam seeks to suppress creativity and free thought.