A Question For Americans

[ski87]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

Nope!

We know Law means what Government says it means until it decides to change It's mind.

Lol, you alarmists are certainly worth a laugh. Don't go boarding yourself up in an isolated cabin just yet Ted.

 

[Intense]

This whole thread is a joke designed to bait....

People forget that US troops aren't Spetnatz or some motley crew of Legionnairres. US troops are a volunteer force that is a microcosm of society.

Paranoid alarmists..the lot.

really?

so how'd that work out during Katrina?

~S~

Funny, I thought the Response was great, considering all of the obstruction coming from the Governor. Thank God She had little effect on the Coast Guard Rescue Response which was unparalleled. Who was it that told Everyone not to leave and seek shelter in enclosed attics?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?
Our concerns are real and valid my friend, Our methods are incompatible, thats all. Progressivism has done much to remove the obstacle of Individual Will. My system celebrates Individual Awareness, Yours, sacrifices it at the Totalitarian, Utopian Alter of Self Denial and Enslavement of Conscience. I'll tell You this, Your True Self does matter to Me, I Value It. When It's realized, It's going to carry Much Weight.

I'll bet anyone a dollar that Roosevelt reflected more on Roosevelt than any of those other guys. You don't get elected to the presidency 4 times without having your own opinions and the stones to put them out there.

He must have done something right... the people of his time kept him on the job a while.

Either that or the blind desperation of the misinformed. Should We imitate Mao, or Chavez, or Castro? Their books balance, Right? A few bullets to the Right heads and miraculously all of the red flags vanish, right. No opposition or dissent, no follow through's. Just don't look too close.

First you compare Roosevelt to Marx (we assume Karl, not Groucho), and now Mao, Chavez and Castro...

What actions are you possibly basing this comparison on? Please give linkable specifics rather than just stating your opinion that Roosevelt was a "socialist" or some other pointless label.

 

[Intense]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

Nope!

We know Law means what Government says it means until it decides to change It's mind.

Lol, you alarmists are certainly worth a laugh. Don't go boarding yourself up in an isolated cabin just yet Ted.

First off, It's John. Second off I'm not being an alarmist, just giving You a heads up. The Bible is full of heads up's should You find the time. Come to think of it, they were pretty much ignored too. Seriously, just remember Conscience First, play your hand with Everything You have in You, Nuf said... Sparky... Nah.

The real battle will be Individual Perspective versus the Bot's. Individual Conscience and Will Versus the Program of the World State. It always has been. Do not confuse Patriot with Statist.

 

[Intense]

I'll bet anyone a dollar that Roosevelt reflected more on Roosevelt than any of those other guys. You don't get elected to the presidency 4 times without having your own opinions and the stones to put them out there.

He must have done something right... the people of his time kept him on the job a while.

Either that or the blind desperation of the misinformed. Should We imitate Mao, or Chavez, or Castro? Their books balance, Right? A few bullets to the Right heads and miraculously all of the red flags vanish, right. No opposition or dissent, no follow through's. Just don't look too close.

First you compare Roosevelt to Marx (we assume Karl, not Groucho), and now Mao, Chavez and Castro...

What actions are you possibly basing this comparison on? Please give linkable specifics rather than just stating your opinion that Roosevelt was a "socialist" or some other pointless label.

How About You doing an Independent Study on Madison Style Federalism and one on Progressivism. Maybe focus on contrast, compatibility, incompatibility. Pointless is what you either make something, or the result of what You fail to see. I see a very user unfriendly cluster fuck, how about You?

 

[Intense]

Wikipedia account of the New Deal. It at least gives voice to the ups and downs of it. There is both good and bad in it, yet the important realization here is that each choice had alternatives. It was not the only way, there were options. There were most definitely regrets.

New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Charles Stucker]

In many nations (China, N Korea, Russia) a primary mission of the military is to keep your own citizens in line. The US has a proud tradition where our military has never had that role.

Except for the civil war when states tried to exercise their constitutional freedoms. Then the army was sent to ravage the territory of those states.

 

[antagon]

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?

marx was an economist. franklin and jefferson werent up on that. as great as those men were, we'dve been fucked with a bunch of 18th century merchantilists fumbling with the great depression. i'd say jmkeynes for fdr's inspiration, if thats not obvious as hell.

Who the Fuck needs Self Determination Anyway!!!

Tax Us more, Fine Us More, Tell Us Everyday what We should, Think, Say, Do , Wear.

You may need to be caged, fed and watered, and changed regularly, that does not justify You claiming You know what is best for the rest of Us. When You lose the Crowd, You mandate, Schemes, Scams, Misdirection, Misinformation, Sabotage, the End justifies the Means for Your Kind, the only thing standing in the way of Your Totalitarian Utopia is Reason and Reality. Don't include Me in Your Vision. Roosevelt had nothing over Jefferson or Madison. The only obvious thing I see in relation to Your Post is You really Really suck in American History.

what the hell are you on about? self determination is living without your level of paranoia, buddy. if thats how you see american economic policy the last 100 years, you are the enslaved... to yourself, and have no place to lecture a free american such as me.

does your 'superior' history tout madison's economic policies as a laudable model?.. or are you talking out of your ass?

 

[antagon]

I live in the Antipodes, Australia, the only question for Americans I have is will you still front up and protect us? There was a time I would have never asked.

We will front up to help, as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in the end, it is up to you and your willpower.

We need you USA, you must lead, and you need to know the entire democratic world needs you to lead.

were you sober when you wrote that? ive come to admire your sloshy wit here curiously absent.

 

[Intense]

marx was an economist. franklin and jefferson werent up on that. as great as those men were, we'dve been fucked with a bunch of 18th century merchantilists fumbling with the great depression. i'd say jmkeynes for fdr's inspiration, if thats not obvious as hell.

Who the Fuck needs Self Determination Anyway!!!

Tax Us more, Fine Us More, Tell Us Everyday what We should, Think, Say, Do , Wear.

You may need to be caged, fed and watered, and changed regularly, that does not justify You claiming You know what is best for the rest of Us. When You lose the Crowd, You mandate, Schemes, Scams, Misdirection, Misinformation, Sabotage, the End justifies the Means for Your Kind, the only thing standing in the way of Your Totalitarian Utopia is Reason and Reality. Don't include Me in Your Vision. Roosevelt had nothing over Jefferson or Madison. The only obvious thing I see in relation to Your Post is You really Really suck in American History.

what the hell are you on about? self determination is living without your level of paranoia, buddy. if thats how you see american economic policy the last 100 years, you are the enslaved... to yourself, and have no place to lecture a free american such as me.

does your 'superior' history tout madison's economic policies as a laudable model?.. or are you talking out of your ass?

What is self-determination?


What is most widely implied in the term self-determination is the right to participate in the democratic process of governance and to influence one’s future – politically, socially and culturally.



Self-determination embodies the right for all peoples to determine their own economic, social and cultural development. Self-determination has thus been defined by the International Court of Justice (in the West-Saharan case) as: The need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples.
It is important to stress that for indigenous peoples the term self-determination does most often NOT imply secession from the state.

The right of self-determination
The right of self-determination of peoples is a fundamental principle in international law. It is embodied in the Charter of the United Nations and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Common Article 1, paragraph 1 of these Covenants provides that:

"All peoples have the rights of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

The right of self-determination has also been recognized in other international and regional human rights instruments such as Part VII of the Helsinki Final Act 1975 and Article 20 of the African Charter of Human and Peoples' Rights as well as the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Territories and Peoples. It has been endorsed by the International Court of Justice. Furthermore, the scope and content of the right of self- determination has been elaborated upon by the United Nations Human Rights Committee and Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination as well as international jurists and human rights experts.

Self-determination




I pick Government by the consent of the Governed, Transparency, Accountability, Disclosure, Rule of Law, ability to adapt to circumstance maintaining Principle.

Individual Liberty, there is no substitute. The Free Market, Value for Value.
Is it paranoia that I see a Statist take over of a Constitutional Republic?
What is the progressive stance on the Individual?
Are we anything more than commodities to the Elite?
What is the progressive POV on Unalienable Right or Conscience?

The impositions We place on Each Other, in many cases are unjustified and beyond measure, more than We can account for, and address. The key here to maintaining was well defined Enumerated Power. Do We show cause anymore when We legislate? Do We limit and tailor, adapt to circumstance? No. We decree without consent, awareness, or understanding. We assume that the end justifies the means, and that there is no Higher Authority than Government. Consequence Dictates otherwise. The Course is Not Right. The evidence is all around Us. Call it Paranoia if You must. It is My Position. If You assume I am Anti Government, You are wrong. I am Anti-Abuse, where ever I find it. There are no Free Passes.

 

[Intense]

In many nations (China, N Korea, Russia) a primary mission of the military is to keep your own citizens in line. The US has a proud tradition where our military has never had that role.

Except for the civil war when states tried to exercise their constitutional freedoms. Then the army was sent to ravage the territory of those states.

For better or worse, that role goes to the National Guard under the Direction of the Governor of the Respective States, by design.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Either that or the blind desperation of the misinformed. Should We imitate Mao, or Chavez, or Castro? Their books balance, Right? A few bullets to the Right heads and miraculously all of the red flags vanish, right. No opposition or dissent, no follow through's. Just don't look too close.

First you compare Roosevelt to Marx (we assume Karl, not Groucho), and now Mao, Chavez and Castro...

What actions are you possibly basing this comparison on? Please give linkable specifics rather than just stating your opinion that Roosevelt was a "socialist" or some other pointless label.

How About You doing an Independent Study on Madison Style Federalism and one on Progressivism. Maybe focus on contrast, compatibility, incompatibility. Pointless is what you either make something, or the result of what You fail to see. I see a very user unfriendly cluster fuck, how about You?

That is a LOT of 'isms', Bud... are you offering a contract or grant to me to do this study of ancient opinions of ways to solve ancient problems?

Is the current situation not just plain different?

Pointless is what you make or miss... Good point.

One man's cluster fuck is another mans opportunity to move billions of $$ around the planet quite suddenly, filtering off a HEALTHY percentage along the way... Ass-u-me-ing of course it's the lawyers on the payroll of you and your friends who wrote the current rules for businesses.

Chumps.

Every fucking one of us.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Wikipedia account of the New Deal. It at least gives voice to the ups and downs of it. There is both good and bad in it, yet the important realization here is that each choice had alternatives. It was not the only way, there were options. There were most definitely regrets.

New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mankind in groups and men individually will rarely task themselves worthy with no regrets... Can we expect no less from our largest enterprises - our governments? Should we?

How about our other large scale endeavors? There are plenty of companies that we've built on this planet that rival or far exceed 90% of the governments we've built... Should we expect businesses and companies to operate without regrets? Are there crimes worthy of capital punishment for corporations?

 

[AVG-JOE]

[SIZE="-5"]What is self-determination?


What is most widely implied in the term self-determination is the right to participate in the democratic process of governance and to influence one’s future – politically, socially and culturally.



Self-determination embodies the right for all peoples to determine their own economic, social and cultural development. Self-determination has thus been defined by the International Court of Justice (in the West-Saharan case) as: The need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples.
It is important to stress that for indigenous peoples the term self-determination does most often NOT imply secession from the state.

The right of self-determination
The right of self-determination of peoples is a fundamental principle in international law. It is embodied in the Charter of the United Nations and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Common Article 1, paragraph 1 of these Covenants provides that:

"All peoples have the rights of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

The right of self-determination has also been recognized in other international and regional human rights instruments such as Part VII of the Helsinki Final Act 1975 and Article 20 of the African Charter of Human and Peoples' Rights as well as the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Territories and Peoples. It has been endorsed by the International Court of Justice. Furthermore, the scope and content of the right of self- determination has been elaborated upon by the United Nations Human Rights Committee and Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination as well as international jurists and human rights experts.

Self-determination




I pick Government by the consent of the Governed, Transparency, Accountability, Disclosure, Rule of Law, ability to adapt to circumstance maintaining Principle.

Individual Liberty, there is no substitute. The Free Market, Value for Value.
Is it paranoia that I see a Statist take over of a Constitutional Republic?
What is the progressive stance on the Individual?[/SIZE]
Are we anything more than commodities to the Elite?
[SIZE="-5"]What is the progressive POV on Unalienable Right or Conscience?

The impositions We place on Each Other, in many cases are unjustified and beyond measure, more than We can account for, and address. The key here to maintaining was well defined Enumerated Power. Do We show cause anymore when We legislate? Do We limit and tailor, adapt to circumstance? No. We decree without consent, awareness, or understanding. We assume that the end justifies the means, and that there is no Higher Authority than Government. Consequence Dictates otherwise. The Course is Not Right. The evidence is all around Us. Call it Paranoia if You must. It is My Position. If You assume I am Anti Government, You are wrong. I am Anti-Abuse, where ever I find it. There are no Free Passes.[/SIZE]

No.

 

[Intense]

First you compare Roosevelt to Marx (we assume Karl, not Groucho), and now Mao, Chavez and Castro...

What actions are you possibly basing this comparison on? Please give linkable specifics rather than just stating your opinion that Roosevelt was a "socialist" or some other pointless label.

How About You doing an Independent Study on Madison Style Federalism and one on Progressivism. Maybe focus on contrast, compatibility, incompatibility. Pointless is what you either make something, or the result of what You fail to see. I see a very user unfriendly cluster fuck, how about You?

That is a LOT of 'isms', Bud... are you offering a contract or grant to me to do this study of ancient opinions of ways to solve ancient problems?

Is the current situation not just plain different?

Pointless is what you make or miss... Good point.

One man's cluster fuck is another mans opportunity to move billions of $$ around the planet quite suddenly, filtering off a HEALTHY percentage along the way... Ass-u-me-ing of course it's the lawyers on the payroll of you and your friends who wrote the current rules for businesses.

Chumps.

Every fucking one of us.

Foundation is not different. Foundation based on Principle that is validated is what the structure is built on. Do we integrate with compatible or incompatible material. Circumstances change, not right and wrong. Some want to deny Others Unalienable Right, that is a corruption.
Imagine a Referee With interest, Players, and money bet on the other team. Hamilton breached the divide and it was never corrected. We need Our Government to facilitate Impartial Justice, an art lost long ago. Our system went Oligarchy long ago. We live under the illusion of a Constitutional Republic, while the Real Money is tied into the Ruling Elite. They will always move Their money, before administering the Schemes that deplete Our's. We end up oppressed by Government Regulation, Decree, and Contract with the Big money, Government protected Monopoly. Govern protects It's investment first, profiting from a polluted partnership with that It was supposed to protect Us from. None of that is Free Market.

Roosevelt had crops destroyed while people were hungry to manipulate the cost at market. He knocked out competition supporting Corporate Take Over, and Monopolies, that's job loss and compounded price fixing. The Nature of the free market was to reduce prices with over supply, he undermined that by destroying product, fighting the natural order with other people's money. He got in some trouble with the Supreme Court, yet it appears just the tip of the ice berg. He fought nature then, and We are currently doing it again. Unsustainable value needs to adjust to real worth, be it real estate, industry, service, or agriculture. That is just the way it is. Schemes and scams don't change that. The Government refuses to face up to It's loss of investment, and It is scrambling to bleed us dry doing it. The shit has still not hit the fan.

 

[Intense]

Wikipedia account of the New Deal. It at least gives voice to the ups and downs of it. There is both good and bad in it, yet the important realization here is that each choice had alternatives. It was not the only way, there were options. There were most definitely regrets.

New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mankind in groups and men individually will rarely task themselves worthy with no regrets... Can we expect no less from our largest enterprises - our governments? Should we?

How about our other large scale endeavors? There are plenty of companies that we've built on this planet that rival or far exceed 90% of the governments we've built... Should we expect businesses and companies to operate without regrets? Are there crimes worthy of capital punishment for corporations?

No. Yet even unintended consequences require remedy, action to restore balance, restitution, justice. In relation to the Mammoth Companies that insure who sits where in government, We have a Constitution that was designed to protect Us from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic. I believe the solution to the puzzle lies somewhere there. Applied Theory. Are there crimes worthy of Liquidation? Yes.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How About You doing an Independent Study on Madison Style Federalism and one on Progressivism. Maybe focus on contrast, compatibility, incompatibility. Pointless is what you either make something, or the result of what You fail to see. I see a very user unfriendly cluster fuck, how about You?

That is a LOT of 'isms', Bud... are you offering a contract or grant to me to do this study of ancient opinions of ways to solve ancient problems?

Is the current situation not just plain different?

Pointless is what you make or miss... Good point.

One man's cluster fuck is another mans opportunity to move billions of $$ around the planet quite suddenly, filtering off a HEALTHY percentage along the way... Ass-u-me-ing of course it's the lawyers on the payroll of you and your friends who wrote the current rules for businesses.

Chumps.

Every fucking one of us.

Foundation is not different. Foundation based on Principle that is validated is what the structure is built on. Do we integrate with compatible or incompatible material. Circumstances change, not right and wrong. Some want to deny Others Unalienable Right, that is a corruption.
Imagine a Referee With interest, Players, and money bet on the other team. Hamilton breached the divide and it was never corrected. We need Our Government to facilitate Impartial Justice, an art lost long ago. Our system went Oligarchy long ago. We live under the illusion of a Constitutional Republic, while the Real Money is tied into the Ruling Elite. They will always move Their money, before administering the Schemes that deplete Our's. We end up oppressed by Government Regulation, Decree, and Contract with the Big money, Government protected Monopoly. Govern protects It's investment first, profiting from a polluted partnership with that It was supposed to protect Us from. None of that is Free Market.

Roosevelt had crops destroyed while people were hungry to manipulate the cost at market. He knocked out competition supporting Corporate Take Over, and Monopolies, that's job loss and compounded price fixing. The Nature of the free market was to reduce prices with over supply, he undermined that by destroying product, fighting the natural order with other people's money. He got in some trouble with the Supreme Court, yet it appears just the tip of the ice berg. He fought nature then, and We are currently doing it again. Unsustainable value needs to adjust to real worth, be it real estate, industry, service, or agriculture. That is just the way it is. Schemes and scams don't change that. The Government refuses to face up to It's loss of investment, and It is scrambling to bleed us dry doing it. The shit has still not hit the fan.

Got Links?

?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Wikipedia account of the New Deal. It at least gives voice to the ups and downs of it. There is both good and bad in it, yet the important realization here is that each choice had alternatives. It was not the only way, there were options. There were most definitely regrets.

New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mankind in groups and men individually will rarely task themselves worthy with no regrets... Can we expect no less from our largest enterprises - our governments? Should we?

How about our other large scale endeavors? There are plenty of companies that we've built on this planet that rival or far exceed 90% of the governments we've built... Should we expect businesses and companies to operate without regrets? Are there crimes worthy of capital punishment for corporations?

No. Yet even unintended consequences require remedy, action to restore balance, restitution, justice. In relation to the Mammoth Companies that insure who sits where in government, We have a Constitution that was designed to protect Us from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic. I believe the solution to the puzzle lies somewhere there. Applied Theory. Are there crimes worthy of Liquidation? Yes.

Perhaps.

Perhaps not.

Our Constitution was created in a different time. Communication took days, the states had reasonable autonomy and all voters were white men who owned property.

When it comes to drafting the rules we live by, history is the greatest of teachers, but living by precedent sucks.

 

[86DuDE]

In many nations (China, N Korea, Russia) a primary mission of the military is to keep your own citizens in line. The US has a proud tradition where our military has never had that role. As a matter of fact, we are so secure that most of our military is deployed outside of the United States.

Th OP is pure fearmongering fantasy

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Excluding the atrocities committed by the U.S. against the south during the civil war we could start with Hoover's war with WWI veterans in D.C. We could then quickly move along and find the military blasting coal miners in WV, and later some stupid hippies at Kent State. If we look even closer we'll find clandestine supposedly "safe" germ warfare on San Francisco and the midwest. And those are the easy examples. Who knows what we'd find if we dug into Katrina. And lest we not mention that fact that not fewer than 20,000 U.S. soldiers are at Northcom just waiting for the martial law orders to come down because of some national emergency or is northcom just some "fantasy"?

 

[antagon]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

perhaps a mis-attribution: conservative conspiracist alarmists is more like it.