A question and thoughts on race

[alan1]

I’m curious as to people’s thoughts about race and racial classification. Part of my curiosity is things that I have seen on this board and in the news recently. A gazillion posts concerning George Zimmerman who has been called a “white Hispanic”, and more recently Elizabeth Warren commenting on “Indian” (Native American) heritage.

I’m not entirely sure how I should go about listing things in this post, so please forgive my random organization of my ideas and points.

I’ll start with the term “white Hispanic”. I find that an odd way to refer to a person. First of all, I’ve never heard anybody use the term “white Negro” to refer to a person of mixed ancestry that included black (African) descent in their family lineage and white Europeans. Similarly, I’ve never heard the term “white Asian” or “white Indian” (as it refers to Native Americans or people from India).
I don’t know, maybe this is because Hispanic isn’t classified as a race according to the latest US Census. (More about this later, plus a link). My understanding of the classification of Hispanic is that people of mixed ancestry – Native American and white European – resulted in what we call Hispanic or Latino (primarily Spaniards when it comes to Mexico and South America). A blend of two “races”. Yet, most people from mixed black (African) and white (European) ancestry are still considered racially “black” (African) while people of mixed Native American and European ancestry are not called Native American, they are called “Hispanic” or “Latino”, and again, not defined as a specific race.

So, let’s look at the 2010 US census.
Question 6. What is this persons race?
Here are the possible choices,
White
Black, African Am., or Negro
American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian Indian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Korean
Vietnamese
Native Hawaiian
Guamanian or Chamarro
Samoan
Other Asian (option to elucidate)
Other Pacific Islander (option to elucidate)
Some other race (Print race)

Please note that Hispanic and Latino are not included (but there is a shit-ton of Asian related choices).
But wait, there was a question on the Census about Hispanic/Latino affiliation, it was question number 5, here it is….

Question 5. Is this person of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
Here are the possible choices,
No, not of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin
Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano
Yes, Puerto Rican
Yes, Cuban
Yes, another Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin (option to elucidate)

Link to support the above US Census questions, The 2010 Census Questionnaire: Seven Questions for Everyone - Population Reference Bureau

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

 

[Amelia]

Hispanic, Latino, etc. isn't based on race. That's ethnicity.



Who gets to decide?


Me, of course. Who'd you think?

 

[Gremlin-USA]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

 

[Salt Jones]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

Counter productive to who? I'm black first, American second.

 

[Sherry]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

Yeah, and why lump all Europeans together...my ex was Italian and I'm Swedish, so some people looked at us like an interracial couple.

 

[tigerbob]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

Black people (I'm using that term because there is nothing more appropriate) have a problem with their identity. Many of them carry a large chip on their shoulders about being pigeonholed, believing any 'group classification' to have potential negatives.

Black History Month
African American History Museum
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
United Negro College Fund

The sooner black people figure out a place they are all comfortable with, the better off we will all be.

Or so a black person once confided to me.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Counter productive to who? I'm black first, American second.

I noticed you did not say African American

My meaning was how do we get rid of the Racial differences if Citizens in the USA start differentiating them selves as anything other than an American.

The Government wants us filling out Forms that say White, Black, Asian.... but if we are US citizens are we not all Americans?


.

 

[alan1]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

UNCF - Who We Are

 

[tigerbob]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

UNCF - Who We Are

Disappointing. I though "Who we are" was going to be an interesting link about black people and their place in the world.

 

[alan1]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

UNCF - Who We Are

Disappointing. I though "Who we are" was going to be an interesting link about black people and their place in the world.

Sorry to disappoint.
Just some people that call themselves Negro even if Gremlin-USA thinks it's "old racist".

 

[Liability]

UNCF - Who We Are

Disappointing. I though "Who we are" was going to be an interesting link about black people and their place in the world.

Sorry to disappoint.
Just some people that call themselves Negro even if Gremlin-USA thinks it's "old racist".

I have sometimes thought I was a "Caucasian" but then I think maybe I prefer the term, "Negro."

Mama-san never understood me.

 

[tigerbob]

UNCF - Who We Are

Disappointing. I though "Who we are" was going to be an interesting link about black people and their place in the world.

Sorry to disappoint.
Just some people that call themselves Negro even if Gremlin-USA thinks it's "old racist".

Ah, I understand.

 

[Foxfyre]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form

African American? That infers you hold a dual citizenship

Do we need to further Change the Form to Say... European American, Australian American, Asian American, Antartican American, etc.

You are either an American or you are not, this African American crap is counter productive....

.

Counter productive to who? I'm black first, American second.

But the term African American should mean that you were born in Africa and are now a naturalized American. You could still be black and be born in Jamiaca or Haiti or South America or Switzerland. As well as in Topkea or Boise or Timbuctoo. But you still want the designation to be African American on the theory that you have an ancester somewhere in your geneology who was born in Africa.?

If we go with the theories I was taught in biology class, it is likely we ALL have ancesters somewhere in our past who were born in Africa. It is an absolute guarantee that we all have ancesters who were born and lived in countries other than the United States.

I long for the day when we all, regardless of skin color, can just be Americans or just be people. And whatever characteristics we share with ancesters who did live in other countries just become an interesting component of our total selves and of no more importance than eye color or hair color, height, weight, or whether we have freckles.

 

[alan1]

Hispanic, Latino, etc. isn't based on race. That's ethnicity.



Who gets to decide?


Me, of course. Who'd you think?

Are there other ethnicity questions on the census? (Answer would be no)
Are there Hispanics/Latino's that have an ancestry other than Native American (a listed race)?

Going back to George Zimmerman, I don't recall the press calling him a "Native American" even though by his ethnicity of Hispanic he has that family lineage.

By the way, Barack Obama is now a "white negro" according to the NYT definitions of race.

 

[Liability]

Hispanic, Latino, etc. isn't based on race. That's ethnicity.



Who gets to decide?


Me, of course. Who'd you think?

Are there other ethnicity questions on the census? (Answer would be no)
Are there Hispanics/Latino's that have an ancestry other than Native American (a listed race)?

Going back to George Zimmerman, I don't recall the press calling him a "Native American" even though by his ethnicity of Hispanic he has that family lineage.

By the way, Barack Obama is now a "white negro" according to the NYT definitions of race.

Wouldn't he be a black Caucasian?

 

[Amelia]

Hispanic, Latino, etc. isn't based on race. That's ethnicity.



Who gets to decide?


Me, of course. Who'd you think?

Are there other ethnicity questions on the census? (Answer would be no)
Are there Hispanics/Latino's that have an ancestry other than Native American (a listed race)?

Going back to George Zimmerman, I don't recall the press calling him a "Native American" even though by his ethnicity of Hispanic he has that family lineage.

By the way, Barack Obama is now a "white negro" according to the NYT definitions of race.

Of course there are: European, Black, Asian, possibly but not necessarily mixed with indigenous Central or South American ancestry.

 

[alan1]

But the term African American should mean that you were born in Africa and are now a naturalized American. You could still be black and be born in Jamiaca or Haiti or South America or Switzerland. As well as in Topkea or Boise or Timbuctoo. But you still want the designation to be African American on the theory that you have an ancester somewhere in your geneology who was born in Africa.?

If we go with the theories I was taught in biology class, it is likely we ALL have ancesters somewhere in our past who were born in Africa. It is an absolute guarantee that we all have ancesters who were born and lived in countries other than the United States.

I long for the day when we all, regardless of skin color, can just be Americans or just be people. And whatever characteristics we share with ancesters who did live in our countries just become an interesting component of our total selves and of no more importance than eye color or hair color, height, weight, or whether we have freckles.

I work with some white skinned folk that were born in Africa but are now naturalized citizens in the US. They call themselves "Americans", not "African-Americans".
I sometimes joke with one of them that he should tell the school system his children are "African-American" so that they will qualify for special grants and scholarships when they grow up.

 

[alan1]

Hispanic, Latino, etc. isn't based on race. That's ethnicity.



Who gets to decide?


Me, of course. Who'd you think?

Are there other ethnicity questions on the census? (Answer would be no)
Are there Hispanics/Latino's that have an ancestry other than Native American (a listed race)?

Going back to George Zimmerman, I don't recall the press calling him a "Native American" even though by his ethnicity of Hispanic he has that family lineage.

By the way, Barack Obama is now a "white negro" according to the NYT definitions of race.

Of course there are: European, Black, Asian, possibly but not necessarily mixed with indigenous Central or South American ancestry.

I think you are incorrect.

The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of Spanish colonization of the Americas countries formerly ruled by the Crown of Castile. Collectively known as Hispanic America, this region includes Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and the Spanish-speaking island-nations of the Caribbean.

In the common tongue, Hispanic relates to peoples of the America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

 

[Amelia]

Are there other ethnicity questions on the census? (Answer would be no)
Are there Hispanics/Latino's that have an ancestry other than Native American (a listed race)?

Going back to George Zimmerman, I don't recall the press calling him a "Native American" even though by his ethnicity of Hispanic he has that family lineage.

By the way, Barack Obama is now a "white negro" according to the NYT definitions of race.

Of course there are: European, Black, Asian, possibly but not necessarily mixed with indigenous Central or South American ancestry.

I think you are incorrect.

The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of Spanish colonization of the Americas countries formerly ruled by the Crown of Castile. Collectively known as Hispanic America, this region includes Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and the Spanish-speaking island-nations of the Caribbean.

In the common tongue, Hispanic relates to peoples of the America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Then I'll leave it as I'm not familiar with any requirement of a Native American component to the heritage. This is the definition I am familiar with:


Latino (demonym) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States Census uses the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino, defined as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

There are those of us who simply acknowledge the scientific fact there is no such thing as ‘race.’

Unfortunately it does exist as a social, cultural, and political contrivance, forcing one to address what should be a non-issue.

This thread would be evidence of that.