A question about affirmative action

[confusedstudent]

The minorities and women in the top 10 at my high school had no problems getting scholarships, examples of those in the same situation should hold some weight.

The second part is more what I want to focus on.

I guess people have a right to be offended if their culture is equated with that silly Twilight novel.

I agree, but it was apparently much much worse because it was a Native American tribe versus say a local myth or legend. I can understand the offense from disrespect to culture/religion but not the "it is so much worse because it is about Native Americans", to the point that it seems to me they are being put up as superior.

 

[Moonglow]

Well try not to feel the inferiority of the minorities that can't compete equally in a free world.

 

[catzmeow]

The minorities and women in the top 10 at my high school had no problems getting scholarships, examples of those in the same situation should hold some weight.

If you didn't qualify for scholarships, it's more likely that your application was substandard, particularly in the writing portions (your writing here is crappy). If you are talking generally about financial aid, it's all income-based these days, not race-based. I'm sure there are minority kids in the top 10% of your class who did not qualify for scholarships, but did receive financial aid. I doubt you are privy to exactly what each person received, and the reasons for that. Instead, you're justifying your failure by pretending that their success was based upon race.

That's stupid thinking. You didn't fail to receive a scholarship because you're white. You failed because your application probably wasn't as good as theirs, and the competition is very tough these days.

I agree, but it was apparently much much worse because it was a Native American tribe versus say a local myth or legend. I can understand the offense from disrespect to culture/religion but not the "it is so much worse because it is about Native Americans", to the point that it seems to me they are being put up as superior.

I've worked with folks in Indian country quite a bit, and I think that their reasons for this reaction are simple...so much has been taken from them that they tend to hold on to their culture and mythology that much more aggressively.

We went hiking on the Olympic Peninsula this summer and spent an evening in La Push (Quileute Nation). I don't know if you've ever spent time on the rez, but rez life is shitty. The poverty is extreme, there are very few jobs, there are high rates of alcoholism and drug abuse, the crime rate tends to be higher than the average inner city area, and there are high rates of domestic violence and child abuse.

Natives in the U.S. are caught in a catch 22...they can leave the rez for educational and work opportunities, but when they do so, they leave their support system of cultural and family connections...they are basically adrift in a white world without the cultural ties that matter in the native world. However, if they stay, they stay trapped in a low income life with very few outlets.

U.S. history in regards to native peoples is basically just one atrocity after another. We stole their land. We mistreated and abused their people. We removed their opportunities to provide for themselves in the ways that they'd done so for milleniums. We removed their children and put them in boarding schools where they were punished for "acting native" and speaking their tribal languages. And we forced them onto reservations with zero economic value. Now we steal and misrepresent their stories.

Telling people you're part-Cherokee says nothing. The Cherokee nation, unlike other tribes, basically intermarried and assimilated with white settlers. They're the least-native of any U.S. tribe.

 

[High_Gravity]

So you came here to do homework?

 

[catzmeow]

So you came here to do homework?

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

 

[High_Gravity]

So you came here to do homework?

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

Well being a white male in America is so damn hard.

 

[catzmeow]

So you came here to do homework?

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

Well being a white male in America is so damn hard.

I know, right? Every time a cop pulls a white guy over, he's assumed to be a violent felon. Every time a white guy goes into the bank, they think he's there to rob them. Every time a white guy does something wrong, people blame it on white culture.

 

[High_Gravity]

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

Well being a white male in America is so damn hard.

I know, right? Every time a cop pulls a white guy over, he's assumed to be a violent felon. Every time a white guy goes into the bank, they think he's there to rob them. Every time a white guy does something wrong, people blame it on white culture.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So you came here to do homework?

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

Well being a white male in America is so damn hard.

On average it is no more or less difficult than being of any ethnicitiy or racial makup in america.

However, there are those rare instances where whites, and white men in particular, are legally discriminated against on the basis of affirmative action.

 

[catzmeow]

On average it is no more or less difficult than being of any ethnicitiy or racial makup in america.

However, there are those rare instances where whites, and white men in particular, are legally discriminated against on the basis of affirmative action.

I don't think you can accurately address how difficult it might be to be a black man in the U.S. in 2012, to be honest. What experience do you have with being black?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

On average it is no more or less difficult than being of any ethnicitiy or racial makup in america.

However, there are those rare instances where whites, and white men in particular, are legally discriminated against on the basis of affirmative action.

I don't think you can accurately address how difficult it might be to be a black man in the U.S. in 2012, to be honest. What experience do you have with being black?

You never know what type of family someone comes from, what race their siginifigant other is, nor what race their children resemble the most.......


Regardless, I don't have to point to myself, I can point to the president to prove my point. If america was truly as bad for black americans as some would have you believe then we couldn't have a black president .

Is there racism out there, "you betchya", but there is just as much coming out of one race as any other.

 

[California Girl]

This is my first post on this forum and I would appreciate respectful answers.

Good luck with that.

 

[catzmeow]

You never know what type of family someone comes from, what race their siginifigant other is, nor what race their children resemble the most.......

True. My kids look Hispanic. My ex-husband did, as well, he's very dark, though.

Regardless, I don't have to point to myself, I can point to the president to prove my point. If america was truly as bad for black americans as some would have you believe then we couldn't have a black president .

Yeah, I think that claim is bullshit.

 

[Huey]

I think he came here to bitch about being terrorized by a class full of natives. I don't know what he's bitching about, it's not like they scalped him. That would be something to bitch about.

Well being a white male in America is so damn hard.

I know, right? Every time a cop pulls a white guy over, he's assumed to be a violent felon. Every time a white guy goes into the bank, they think he's there to rob them. Every time a white guy does something wrong, people blame it on white culture.

well white people treat Black people that way,why not turn the page over and let them feel the negative.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You never know what type of family someone comes from, what race their siginifigant other is, nor what race their children resemble the most.......

True. My kids look Hispanic. My ex-husband did, as well, he's very dark, though.

Regardless, I don't have to point to myself, I can point to the president to prove my point. If america was truly as bad for black americans as some would have you believe then we couldn't have a black president .

Yeah, I think that claim is bullshit.

Why do you think it is bullshit? More than half of america is open enough about race to elect a black president which is where my comments come from, why do you disagree?

 

[catzmeow]

Why do you think it is bullshit? More than half of america is open enough about race to elect a black president which is where my comments come from, why do you disagree?

What percentage of the other 50% voted against him purely because he's black?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Why do you think it is bullshit? More than half of america is open enough about race to elect a black president which is where my comments come from, why do you disagree?

What percentage of the other 50% voted against him purely because he's black?

Who knows....probably the same precentage that voted for him because he was black

That still doesn't tell me why, if the majority of america can vote for a black president, you think that doesn't show america is more open about race than closed about it.

 

[catzmeow]

Who knows....probably the same precentage that voted for him because he was black

That still doesn't tell me why, if the majority of america can vote for a black president, you think that doesn't show america is more open about race than closed about it.

I think America has come a long ways in regards to race. I think the life experiences of middle and upper class blacks and whites are very similar. However, a much higher percentage of blacks than whites live in poverty. Living in poverty is a lot harder than not living in poverty, and often leads to a veritable avalanche of negative social implications, such as failing schools, high crime neighborhoods, and higher levels of family stress. Thus, it's probably harder to be black, in many cases, though certainly not all.

I would say that the correlation, these days, is more economic than racial.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Who knows....probably the same precentage that voted for him because he was black

That still doesn't tell me why, if the majority of america can vote for a black president, you think that doesn't show america is more open about race than closed about it.

I think America has come a long ways in regards to race. I think the life experiences of middle and upper class blacks and whites are very similar. However, a much higher percentage of blacks than whites live in poverty. Living in poverty is a lot harder than not living in poverty, and often leads to a veritable avalanche of negative social implications, such as failing schools, high crime neighborhoods, and higher levels of family stress. Thus, it's probably harder to be black, in many cases, though certainly not all.

I would say that the correlation, these days, is more economic than racial.

Well we actually agree then, since that is true...especially how you broke it into economic instead of racial terms .

 

[catzmeow]

Well we actually agree then, since that is true...especially how you broke it into economic instead of racial terms .

I think that's how it's largely viewed in the South. OF course, having said that...I can't speak for what it's like to live up North. We're much more integrated down here than most northern cities are. White collar professionals of any race tend to do pretty well down here; poor folks struggle and deal with all kinds of ostracization.