A Protest Nation and An Election

[Navy1960]

But the President has the golden pen to sign or veto, so he makes the final decision. So if he sees a piece of legislation that is lousy, he can veto it. So ultimately it does rest on the current sitting presidents shoulder.

Its rather hard to veto legislation that never reaches your desk because congress is too busy stalling it for one reason or the other. Take the energy bill for instance. This flase argument , well why drill offshore or in ANWAR it wont be available for 10 years anyway, or wont help us too much, hell with that same thing they said 10 years ago. guess what? they would have sent it up there to be signed in the last ten year you would have more oil in the system. The problem is that congress is too tied up in its obligations to special intrests.

 

[Angel Heart]

Here is a simple question? Do you think that the last eight years have been great?

HELL YES IT IS!!!!

At least on the personal level.

8 yrs ago, we had just lost everything we owned in a house fire. On Monday, March 6Th, 2000, we got away with the shirts on our back and a small box of things we could dig out of the rubble. Didn't receive much help from the Red Cross or social services. Didn't have ins to cover it. Thankfully, we had good friends who was there when we really needed them.

Then... Just as we where starting to get back to a some what normal state of life (Sept 2000), my husband was laid off due to the dot com bomb. The economic time bomb that was built under Clinton's watch... Much like the one we are having now with oil.

We moved to Oregon April 2001 after realizing there where no jobs in my husbands field. The job crunch hadn't hit this area yet. He started working at a call center doing a wireless (outsource) company for enough to keep a roof over our heads. It got us through the crash here.

4 yrs ago he got a job doing tech work for an office machine company. They pay better than his last job and he enjoys it a lot more.

Now... We are about to buy our first home. We drive newish (both less than 4 yrs old) car/van. Our kids have all their needs met and some of their wants. We are about to buy our first home. My husband is up for a promotion too. He interviewed yesterday. (FINGERS CROSSED).

I'm sorry that your life has sucked so bad but not all of us have had a horrible last 8 yrs.

 

[Modbert]

HELL YES IT IS!!!!

At least on the personal level.

8 yrs ago, we had just lost everything we owned in a house fire. On Monday, March 6Th, 2000, we got away with the shirts on our back and a small box of things we could dig out of the rubble. Didn't receive much help from the Red Cross or social services. Didn't have ins to cover it. Thankfully, we had good friends who was there when we really needed them.

Then... Just as we where starting to get back to a some what normal state of life (Sept 2000), my husband was laid off due to the dot com bomb. The economic time bomb that was built under Clinton's watch... Much like the one we are having now with oil.

We moved to Oregon April 2001 after realizing there where no jobs in my husbands field. The job crunch hadn't hit this area yet. He started working at a call center doing a wireless (outsource) company for enough to keep a roof over our heads. It got us through the crash here.

4 yrs ago he got a job doing tech work for an office machine company. They pay better than his last job and he enjoys it a lot more.

Now... We are about to buy our first home. We drive newish (both less than 4 yrs old) car/van. Our kids have all their needs met and some of their wants. We are about to buy our first home. My husband is up for a promotion too. He interviewed yesterday. (FINGERS CROSSED).

I'm sorry that your life has sucked so bad but not all of us have had a horrible last 8 yrs.

I'm glad to hear that you and your family were able to go from nothing to everything Angel. (Though you got my sympathy that you had lost almost everything you owned at one point.)

It's always good to hear that The American Dream isn't dead quite yet.

 

[Angel Heart]

It's never dead so long as we keep it in our hearts and don't let anyone take it. So long as we all go around acting like victims we will forever be ones.

Reason my husband makes more now isn't due to government programs. He made himself worth more. Even his time at the call center helped. It taught him customer service. Something you really can't learn out of a text book.

 

[editec]

I agree with you that often some of those protesting have an incomplete understanding of the issue, NAV60

How many men who stood on the green at Lexington in 1775 could have explained to your satisfaction or mine why they were taking up arms against the King of England?

And if they could not explain it coherently enough, did that make their complaint any less valid?

See my point?

One can know (or at least believe) that something is wrong or right without being able to explain why we take that position.

 

[dilloduck]

I agree with you that often some of those protesting have an incomplete understanding of the issue, NAV60

How many men who stood on the green at Lexington in 1775 could have explained to your satisfaction or mine why they were taking up arms against the King of England?

And if they could not explain it coherently enough, did that make their complaint any less valid?

See my point?

One can know (or at least believe) that something is wrong or right without being able to explain why we take that position.

I bet you EVERY DAMN ONE of them knew why they were standing on the green at Lexington and could explain it quite well. They weren't just risking getting pepper sprayed.

 

[Navy1960]

I agree with you that often some of those protesting have an incomplete understanding of the issue, NAV60

How many men who stood on the green at Lexington in 1775 could have explained to your satisfaction or mine why they were taking up arms against the King of England?

And if they could not explain it coherently enough, did that make their complaint any less valid?

See my point?

One can know (or at least believe) that something is wrong or right without being able to explain why we take that position.

I rather doubt that many that stood on the green musket in hand would have been able to explain a "world view" of things. However, I think the people that were taking those shots at Lexington and Concord would more likely than not have a much better idea of why they were there than the average kid with a brick in hand breaking the window of some store owner because someone has told him the war in Iraq is bad. I am sure, that if you took a map and asked most of them to point Iraq out, there may be a little issue there too. The point here is, idon't dount their passion for a moment, but passion without reason and passion for a cause you have really no concept of is a misguided one. Of course thats just my opinion.

 

[greenpartyaz]

Its rather hard to veto legislation that never reaches your desk because congress is too busy stalling it for one reason or the other. Take the energy bill for instance. This flase argument , well why drill offshore or in ANWAR it wont be available for 10 years anyway, or wont help us too much, hell with that same thing they said 10 years ago. guess what? they would have sent it up there to be signed in the last ten year you would have more oil in the system. The problem is that congress is too tied up in its obligations to special intrests.

Right, as far as the energy legislation. Drilling in the wildlife refuge would do nothing to ease the $4.00 a gallon gas crisis. It would still leave the oil companies at the table, and it isn't in their best interest to lower gas prices, so it is a false solution. It is a complete smokescreen!

 

[greenpartyaz]

HELL YES IT IS!!!!

At least on the personal level.

8 yrs ago, we had just lost everything we owned in a house fire. On Monday, March 6Th, 2000, we got away with the shirts on our back and a small box of things we could dig out of the rubble. Didn't receive much help from the Red Cross or social services. Didn't have ins to cover it. Thankfully, we had good friends who was there when we really needed them.

Then... Just as we where starting to get back to a some what normal state of life (Sept 2000), my husband was laid off due to the dot com bomb. The economic time bomb that was built under Clinton's watch... Much like the one we are having now with oil.

We moved to Oregon April 2001 after realizing there where no jobs in my husbands field. The job crunch hadn't hit this area yet. He started working at a call center doing a wireless (outsource) company for enough to keep a roof over our heads. It got us through the crash here.

4 yrs ago he got a job doing tech work for an office machine company. They pay better than his last job and he enjoys it a lot more.

Now... We are about to buy our first home. We drive newish (both less than 4 yrs old) car/van. Our kids have all their needs met and some of their wants. We are about to buy our first home. My husband is up for a promotion too. He interviewed yesterday. (FINGERS CROSSED).

I'm sorry that your life has sucked so bad but not all of us have had a horrible last 8 yrs.

Congratulations, that is awesome to see that you made it through the mess! Although, it is a diamond in the rough, I'd have to say a lot of American's don't share the same story as you. These last eight years have been rough for the middle class. The unemployment rate just spiked at 6.1%. There are a lot of underemployed people that can't find jobs and have just given up hope.

 

[Navy1960]

green the point I was making is that, we have the resources now to drill in a clean responsible way, and I think for the most part people can agree that we all want to get off oil eventually, but there has to be a some way to get there. However, to me it comes down to a choice. if you think that solar, and fuel cell cars and conservation are going to be that bridge to get us off foreign oil then you are sadly mistaken. The technology is at the beginning of it's life cycle and will come no where near accomplishing that goal. So my question is, why not use EVERY resource we have as a bridge to completing the goal of becomming energy independant? wind, solar, our own sources of oil and gas as well as nuclear, till such time as the technology exists and is cheap enough and the infrastructure is there to support the new technology? Why keep paying all that money to those murdering scumbags in the middle east? That where it ends up eventually.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

People usually protest when they don't like what's going on... So... uh, I guess a lot of people are protesting because a lot of people don't like what's going on.

 

[Navy1960]

E.. D

That's a given, there, however, do you think that some and i'm not saying all, are doing so now because it's the cool thing to do? I'm retired Military and I have to tell you it breaks my heart to see people stand in front of a Military Recruiters office and block the path and then call those brave men and women all sorts of vile trash. I would just rather they say nothing at all , it is not the soidier, sailor , or airmen that takes the country to war , it is they make the sacrifices, family, hardships, and some with their very lives. So this what I like to call protest culture, seems to have gotten to the point where, it's just i'm going to protest this or that , rather than try and change it. Did they ever stop to think, "wait , maybe if I signed up I can make a difference".Again I would never stop anyone from exercising their rights, but as I have said, a cause without reason is , a lost cause.

 

[Silence]

Yes! We MUST keep alive the culture wars from 40 years ago! Otherwise the GOP has no chance! Beware the hippies! Hey, look at those protesters! William Ayers! WILLIAM AYERS!

the don't have an actual platform to run on that's any different than what we've got now so that's what they have to do. Once again they will try to scare the American people into voting for them.

 

[Gunny]

Here is a simple question? Do you think that the last eight years have been great?

Well, there have it. At least we know why greenparty protests ... to try and change something that cannot be changed -- history.

 

[Navy1960]

the don't have an actual platform to run on that's any different than what we've got now so that's what they have to do. Once again they will try to scare the American people into voting for them.

Silence;

Don't you think though that same thing can be said of the democrats too? Scare tactics it seems to me have been a part of every election cycle. Democrats do it, Republicans do it, it's not just something that is the sole property of the Republicans.

 

[Modbert]

Silence;

Don't you think though that same thing can be said of the democrats too? Scare tactics it seems to me have been a part of every election cycle. Democrats do it, Republicans do it, it's not just something that is the sole property of the Republicans.

Navy, Barack Obama is running on a campaign of Change and Hope.

How is that anywhere near scare tactics? Barack Obama doesn't want people to question each other's patriotism, the Republicans said the opposite during their convention.

Barack Obama wants to make these states a United States again, not red and blue states. He wants to make this a 50 state campaign, not same old politics.

The Republicans are playing the same old mud slinging games while Barack Obama has taken the high road this whole election season.

Eventually he has had to respond to several of the Republicans allegations but for the most part he has stayed out of that sort of stuff.

 

[Gunny]

the don't have an actual platform to run on that's any different than what we've got now so that's what they have to do. Once again they will try to scare the American people into voting for them.

Pot calling the kettle black. Both parties use fearmongering. They just apply it to different issues.

 

[Gunny]

Navy, Barack Obama is running on a campaign of Change and Hope.

How is that anywhere near scare tactics? Barack Obama doesn't want people to question each other's patriotism, the Republicans said the opposite during their convention.

Barack Obama wants to make these states a United States again, not red and blue states. He wants to make this a 50 state campaign, not same old politics.

The Republicans are playing the same old mud slinging games while Barack Obama has taken the high road this whole election season.

Eventually he has had to respond to several of the Republicans allegations but for the most part he has stayed out of that sort of stuff.

What does "Hope and Change" base itself on? The fear of four more years of the same.

Barrack Obama is not going to change crap, regardless his rhetoric. He most assuredly is not going to change the political divisiveness in this nation. Conservatives are not going to embrace liberal ideology.

If he's elected, the coolest thing will be watching to lefties start falling all over each other trying to adjust from offensive mode to defensive. Paybacks are a bitch, and y'all got 8 years coming to you.

 

[greenpartyaz]

Well, there have it. At least we know why greenparty protests ... to try and change something that cannot be changed -- history.

That was cute, Gunny, but for someone who speaks with a monolithic voice, your opinion carries no weight.

 

[Navy1960]

Navy, Barack Obama is running on a campaign of Change and Hope.

How is that anywhere near scare tactics? Barack Obama doesn't want people to question each other's patriotism, the Republicans said the opposite during their convention.

Barack Obama wants to make these states a United States again, not red and blue states. He wants to make this a 50 state campaign, not same old politics.

The Republicans are playing the same old mud slinging games while Barack Obama has taken the high road this whole election season.

Eventually he has had to respond to several of the Republicans allegations but for the most part he has stayed out of that sort of stuff.

Robert;

I actually created a thread here showing the very example we are talking about, creating "fear" and how the democratic party had used a specific tactic for many years from Carter till now. I can assure you that the high road your talking about is NOT on the table with David Axelrod and both parties mud sling, especially in this election. I can get the quote from the other thread and post them here if you like? It was a pretty good thread I thought but then again as you all know, i'm the unapologetic Republican lol.