A Proposal related to Citizenship

[Anachronism]

I think by now most of you know that I am not a believer in Birthright Citizenship, or the idea that American Citizenship should be a Right at all, but rather a Privilege. I've been asked how it should work in my mind. Well, here goes....

Individuals born of two (2) parents who are American Citizens, and who are born inside the borders of the United States would be considered Citizens-In-Waiting. On their eighteenth birthday, or the day after they finish high school (whichever is later) they would be requested to report for three years of National Service. This service would include: all five branches of the US military and most other departments in the Federal Government. Preference in postings would be granted to those with a clean criminal history and those whose school record and extracurricular activities were better than others. After the three years of National Service these individuals who have served honorably would be granted Full Citizenship and all the Privileges that go with it. Those who are unable to fulfill the service in an honorable manner or who choose not to serve at all would be denied Citizenship and thereafter restrained from getting any of the benefits of Citizenship. The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam at the end of the three years and would become probationary Citizens from the end of that time until they married a Citizen. If they chose to marry a non-citizen or did not marry at all within five (5) years of the end of their training, they would lose their probationary Citizenship permanently.

Individuals who were born of less than two (2) parents who were American Citizens or who were born outside of the United States would have to apply, before age 18 for the opportunity to engage in National Service. To do so they would have to prove they no longer had ANY connection to the location where they were born or the homeland of their non-Citizen parent (and haven't for at least 5 years); speak, read, and write English fluently, have (or will have before entering service) a high school diploma or GED. If they meet those standards, they are allowed into the normal National Service track to Citizenship.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US prior to their 10th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States in a minimum of eight (8) years; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US after to their 10th birthday but before their 17th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States since their arrival in the United States; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options. Upon completion of their National Service these individuals become probationary Citizens for a period of five (5) years. Any arrest or evidence of contact with individuals in a foreign country during that time would invalidate their Citizenship status.

Individuals who came to the United States after their 17th birthday would not have the option to be involved in the National Service program. To gain US Citizenship they would be required to prove a minimum of ten (10) years without any foreign contact, pass english, basic math, and American history exams, renounce any allegience to any foreign country and/or non-governmental organization, and prove a minimum of a seven (7) consecutive year employment record at or above the minimum wage.

Go right ahead and rip it apart folks. Have fun.

 

[flacaltenn]

When you fix these "crimes of association" with foreigners, maybe we'll get further... But I'm NOT in favor of "forced service".

In fact, the idea of Washington, D.C. overrun with teenagers with little or no work experience kinda appeals to my comical side. Could be better than your average insurrection...

 

[Anachronism]

When you fix these "crimes of association" with foreigners, maybe we'll get further...

That's not going to happen.

But I'm NOT in favor of "forced service".

There's no FORCED service anywhere in there. If you don't want to be a Citizen, you don't have to do a damn thing. Of course, you also don't get to exercise the Privileges of Free Speech and Gun Ownership, or the Right to a Fair and Speedy Trial, but hey you made the decision yourself.

In fact, the idea of Washington, D.C. overrun with teenagers with little or no work experience kinda appeals to my comical side. Could be better than your average insurrection...

The entire workforce wouldn't be made up of 18-21 year olds. Some of those people might even choose to stay on and make a career out of whatever job it is they did their service in. Everyone would get an inside look at how the country truly operates. Honestly, I don't really see all that much of a downside to it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Go right ahead and rip it apart folks. Have fun.

No, it speaks clearly for itself.

Otherwise, such posts make me extremely glad we live in a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy. Very glad.

 

[rightwinger]

Simple question...

What do you do with the people born in the US who do not meet your strict citizenship requirements?

 

[Mustang]

I think by now most of you know that I am not a believer in Birthright Citizenship, or the idea that American Citizenship should be a Right at all, but rather a Privilege. I've been asked how it should work in my mind. Well, here goes....

Individuals born of two (2) parents who are American Citizens, and who are born inside the borders of the United States would be considered Citizens-In-Waiting. On their eighteenth birthday, or the day after they finish high school (whichever is later) they would be requested to report for three years of National Service. This service would include: all five branches of the US military and most other departments in the Federal Government. Preference in postings would be granted to those with a clean criminal history and those whose school record and extracurricular activities were better than others. After the three years of National Service these individuals who have served honorably would be granted Full Citizenship and all the Privileges that go with it. Those who are unable to fulfill the service in an honorable manner or who choose not to serve at all would be denied Citizenship and thereafter restrained from getting any of the benefits of Citizenship. The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam at the end of the three years and would become probationary Citizens from the end of that time until they married a Citizen. If they chose to marry a non-citizen or did not marry at all within five (5) years of the end of their training, they would lose their probationary Citizenship permanently.

Individuals who were born of less than two (2) parents who were American Citizens or who were born outside of the United States would have to apply, before age 18 for the opportunity to engage in National Service. To do so they would have to prove they no longer had ANY connection to the location where they were born or the homeland of their non-Citizen parent (and haven't for at least 5 years); speak, read, and write English fluently, have (or will have before entering service) a high school diploma or GED. If they meet those standards, they are allowed into the normal National Service track to Citizenship.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US prior to their 10th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States in a minimum of eight (8) years; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US after to their 10th birthday but before their 17th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States since their arrival in the United States; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options. Upon completion of their National Service these individuals become probationary Citizens for a period of five (5) years. Any arrest or evidence of contact with individuals in a foreign country during that time would invalidate their Citizenship status.

Individuals who came to the United States after their 17th birthday would not have the option to be involved in the National Service program. To gain US Citizenship they would be required to prove a minimum of ten (10) years without any foreign contact, pass english, basic math, and American history exams, renounce any allegience to any foreign country and/or non-governmental organization, and prove a minimum of a seven (7) consecutive year employment record at or above the minimum wage.

Go right ahead and rip it apart folks. Have fun.

You'll need to amend the US Constitution. That will require 2/3 affirmative vote from Congress and 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Good luck.

 

[martybegan]

You are basically creating sparta, or a more stringent version of the world in starship troopers. At least in starship troopers the only thing you didnt get to do without citizenship was vote. Only the franchise was an exclusive citizen right.

It smacks almost of eugenics, with a fascistic oligarchism thrown in.

 

[Anachronism]

You'll need to amend the US Constitution. That will require 2/3 affirmative vote from Congress and 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Good luck.

Actually this is part of a series of things I believe should be included in a NEW Constitution that would be written after the violent overthrow of the Government by people who actually comprehend what morals, values, and common decency are.

You are basically creating sparta, or a more stringent version of the world in starship troopers. At least in starship troopers the only thing you didnt get to do without citizenship was vote. Only the franchise was an exclusive citizen right.

It smacks almost of eugenics, with a fascistic oligarchism thrown in.

marty, you're right it is very much an Authoritarian style of though. Gee, maybe that's because I am an Authoritarian (and have never claimed to be anything else). The concept does have a lot in common with Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" world. Oh, and I seem to remember the Spartans doing fairly well for themselves also.

 

[Montrovant]

Authoritarianism is great......so long as you're one of the ones in power.

Forced morality is great.....so long as they are your morals.

I think your ideas might work, not just functionally but in the sense the majority is happy with them, on a small scale. For a nation the size of the US, both in terms of population and landmass, I don't think they are even close to realistic. There is just too much variety in people.

 

[martybegan]

You'll need to amend the US Constitution. That will require 2/3 affirmative vote from Congress and 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Good luck.

Actually this is part of a series of things I believe should be included in a NEW Constitution that would be written after the violent overthrow of the Government by people who actually comprehend what morals, values, and common decency are.

You are basically creating sparta, or a more stringent version of the world in starship troopers. At least in starship troopers the only thing you didnt get to do without citizenship was vote. Only the franchise was an exclusive citizen right.

It smacks almost of eugenics, with a fascistic oligarchism thrown in.

marty, you're right it is very much an Authoritarian style of though. Gee, maybe that's because I am an Authoritarian (and have never claimed to be anything else). The concept does have a lot in common with Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" world. Oh, and I seem to remember the Spartans doing fairly well for themselves also.

For a while and then they got beaten by a combination of a slave revolt and outside forces.

Authoritarianism is great, as long as you are on the side of authority. People living under your system who didnt like it would either leave, or revolt, unless you use methods of control to keep your permanent underclass.

 

[percysunshine]

"The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam."

I am guessing that Bill Clinton would administer said exam?

 

[Avatar4321]

I rather like the Constitution we have. And I abhor violence, even if it is a necessary evil sometimes.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I think by now most of you know that I am not a believer in Birthright Citizenship, or the idea that American Citizenship should be a Right at all, but rather a Privilege. I've been asked how it should work in my mind. Well, here goes....

Individuals born of two (2) parents who are American Citizens, and who are born inside the borders of the United States would be considered Citizens-In-Waiting. On their eighteenth birthday, or the day after they finish high school (whichever is later) they would be requested to report for three years of National Service. This service would include: all five branches of the US military and most other departments in the Federal Government. Preference in postings would be granted to those with a clean criminal history and those whose school record and extracurricular activities were better than others. After the three years of National Service these individuals who have served honorably would be granted Full Citizenship and all the Privileges that go with it. Those who are unable to fulfill the service in an honorable manner or who choose not to serve at all would be denied Citizenship and thereafter restrained from getting any of the benefits of Citizenship. The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam at the end of the three years and would become probationary Citizens from the end of that time until they married a Citizen. If they chose to marry a non-citizen or did not marry at all within five (5) years of the end of their training, they would lose their probationary Citizenship permanently.

Individuals who were born of less than two (2) parents who were American Citizens or who were born outside of the United States would have to apply, before age 18 for the opportunity to engage in National Service. To do so they would have to prove they no longer had ANY connection to the location where they were born or the homeland of their non-Citizen parent (and haven't for at least 5 years); speak, read, and write English fluently, have (or will have before entering service) a high school diploma or GED. If they meet those standards, they are allowed into the normal National Service track to Citizenship.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US prior to their 10th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States in a minimum of eight (8) years; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US after to their 10th birthday but before their 17th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States since their arrival in the United States; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options. Upon completion of their National Service these individuals become probationary Citizens for a period of five (5) years. Any arrest or evidence of contact with individuals in a foreign country during that time would invalidate their Citizenship status.

Individuals who came to the United States after their 17th birthday would not have the option to be involved in the National Service program. To gain US Citizenship they would be required to prove a minimum of ten (10) years without any foreign contact, pass english, basic math, and American history exams, renounce any allegience to any foreign country and/or non-governmental organization, and prove a minimum of a seven (7) consecutive year employment record at or above the minimum wage.

Go right ahead and rip it apart folks. Have fun.

and what did you do to earn yours?.....

 

[Anachronism]

Authoritarianism is great......so long as you're one of the ones in power. Forced morality is great.....so long as they are your morals.

That's the point. When one believes in Right and Wrong, there can be no other way.

I think your ideas might work, not just functionally but in the sense the majority is happy with them, on a small scale. For a nation the size of the US, both in terms of population and landmass, I don't think they are even close to realistic. There is just too much variety in people.

Too much variety? What variety of people haven't been covered under my proposal? As to the majority being happy with the proposal; What does that matter? We're talking about Right and Wrong, not what some bunch of worthless wastes of flesh and oxygen like or don't like.

For a while and then they got beaten by a combination of a slave revolt and outside forces.

Authoritarianism is great, as long as you are on the side of authority. People living under your system who didnt like it would either leave, or revolt, unless you use methods of control to keep your permanent underclass.

The individuals who did not achieve Citizenship would likely leave the country on their own. As for revolt.... Only Citizens would have a right to bear arms so that is less of a concern.

I rather like the Constitution we have. And I abhor violence, even if it is a necessary evil sometimes.

I have no use for the modernly interpreted Constitution. Violence is a necessary and proper part of society in many cases.

 

[Anachronism]

"The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam."

I am guessing that Bill Clinton would administer said exam?

Nope. People like Clinton who allow their wives to walk all over them would definitely NOT be part of the process. Especially since I seriously doubt he's got any experience knowing what proper home-making skills look like considering the bitch he's married to.

 

[DaGoose]

Simple question...

What do you do with the people born in the US who do not meet your strict citizenship requirements?

I'd like to see an answer to this question as well.

.

 

[DaGoose]

I think by now most of you know that I am not a believer in Birthright Citizenship, or the idea that American Citizenship should be a Right at all, but rather a Privilege. I've been asked how it should work in my mind. Well, here goes....

Individuals born of two (2) parents who are American Citizens, and who are born inside the borders of the United States would be considered Citizens-In-Waiting. On their eighteenth birthday, or the day after they finish high school (whichever is later) they would be requested to report for three years of National Service. This service would include: all five branches of the US military and most other departments in the Federal Government. Preference in postings would be granted to those with a clean criminal history and those whose school record and extracurricular activities were better than others. After the three years of National Service these individuals who have served honorably would be granted Full Citizenship and all the Privileges that go with it. Those who are unable to fulfill the service in an honorable manner or who choose not to serve at all would be denied Citizenship and thereafter restrained from getting any of the benefits of Citizenship. The only exception to this service would be for young women who would instead prefer to attend three years of "Finishing School" where they would be taught proper home-making skills. These young ladies would be required to pass a competency exam at the end of the three years and would become probationary Citizens from the end of that time until they married a Citizen. If they chose to marry a non-citizen or did not marry at all within five (5) years of the end of their training, they would lose their probationary Citizenship permanently.

Individuals who were born of less than two (2) parents who were American Citizens or who were born outside of the United States would have to apply, before age 18 for the opportunity to engage in National Service. To do so they would have to prove they no longer had ANY connection to the location where they were born or the homeland of their non-Citizen parent (and haven't for at least 5 years); speak, read, and write English fluently, have (or will have before entering service) a high school diploma or GED. If they meet those standards, they are allowed into the normal National Service track to Citizenship.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US prior to their 10th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States in a minimum of eight (8) years; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options.

Individuals who were not born to American Citizens and who were not born in the United States but arrive in the US after to their 10th birthday but before their 17th birthday would be required to prove the same things as the individuals in the previous category with the following addition.... Have not had any contact with anyone outside the United States since their arrival in the United States; and are not eligible for any military or paramilitary service options. Upon completion of their National Service these individuals become probationary Citizens for a period of five (5) years. Any arrest or evidence of contact with individuals in a foreign country during that time would invalidate their Citizenship status.

Individuals who came to the United States after their 17th birthday would not have the option to be involved in the National Service program. To gain US Citizenship they would be required to prove a minimum of ten (10) years without any foreign contact, pass english, basic math, and American history exams, renounce any allegience to any foreign country and/or non-governmental organization, and prove a minimum of a seven (7) consecutive year employment record at or above the minimum wage.

Go right ahead and rip it apart folks. Have fun.

I wouldn't live under those types of rules.

.

 

[Anachronism]

I'd like to see an answer to this question as well.

rw is a member of the famed Ignore List so I never saw the question....

Individuals who choose not to become Citizens or who fail to qualify would have the option to leave the US (as I think most would) or to remain here as non-Citizens without most Constitutional and Legal protections and privileges so long as they maintained a law-abiding lifestyle. The moment they step out of line they would be removed from the country.

I wouldn't live under those types of rules.

That's fine. Nobody said you had to. Europe is always willing to accept liberals and socialists with open arms.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd like to see an answer to this question as well.

rw is a member of the famed Ignore List so I never saw the question....

Individuals who choose not to become Citizens or who fail to qualify would have the option to leave the US (as I think most would) or to remain here as non-Citizens without most Constitutional and Legal protections and privileges so long as they maintained a law-abiding lifestyle. The moment they step out of line they would be removed from the country.

I wouldn't live under those types of rules.

That's fine. Nobody said you had to. Europe is always willing to accept liberals and socialists with open arms.

After months of trying, I have made the ignore list!

How does one leave the country without a passport? You can't get a passport without being a citizen.

If you "remove them from the country" where do you send them? These people have no status

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'd like to see an answer to this question as well.

rw is a member of the famed Ignore List so I never saw the question....

Individuals who choose not to become Citizens or who fail to qualify would have the option to leave the US (as I think most would) or to remain here as non-Citizens without most Constitutional and Legal protections and privileges so long as they maintained a law-abiding lifestyle. The moment they step out of line they would be removed from the country.

I wouldn't live under those types of rules.

That's fine. Nobody said you had to. Europe is always willing to accept liberals and socialists with open arms.

After months of trying, I have made the ignore list!

How does one leave the country without a passport? You can't get a passport without being a citizen.

If you "remove them from the country" where do you send them? These people have no status

i think i must be on it too.....the little pussy never answers my questions......hey someone out there ask this little asshole what he did to earn his citizenship.....