CDZ A Problem With Police

[Howey]

As I was reading the latest thread on another innocent black man (in this case, a therapist protecting an autistic man with a plastic truck), I started thinking and wondering what the problem is. And I'm not going to say a thing about race, racial profiling, and police attitudes towards blacks.

What is I will say is today's police corps is in shambles. Police are woefully underpaid, untrained and unmanageable.

Here's what's wrong IMO and what needs to be fixed.

• Work with police unions to increase starting salaries for all police officers, particularly rookies. Many states haven't given raises to police in several years. Here in Florida, three. Note: Police administrators receive state administrator raises and health care, far different and far higher than the rank and file.
• Quit hiring high school graduates with little or no education. Require at least a two year degree in Criminal Justice. Thoroughly vet returning veterans before hiring and test for PTSD. Administer physical and psychological exams to all new hires. Establish weight standards and require officers to maintain them. Recruit nationwide and offer salaries and benefits that exceed other states. Right now, the average police salary in every city in Florida is below the national average. How can you get quality employees without quality pay and benefits?
• Restore funding for police training. The state of Florida cut police training budgets by 40% in the 2014 budget, and today provides only $67 per officer for training. A quick Google search shows this is true for most states.
• While we're on the subject, stop local police departments from arming themselves like a military junta. It's too expensive and unnecessary. We have State National Guards. Put that money into gear that protects the officer.
• And above all, reach out to the people. Hold open discussions on racism, profiling and other issues with the populace. Work together to solve problems.

 

[westwall]

As I was reading the latest thread on another innocent black man (in this case, a therapist protecting an autistic man with a plastic truck), I started thinking and wondering what the problem is. And I'm not going to say a thing about race, racial profiling, and police attitudes towards blacks.

What is I will say is today's police corps is in shambles. Police are woefully underpaid, untrained and unmanageable.

Here's what's wrong IMO and what needs to be fixed.

• Work with police unions to increase starting salaries for all police officers, particularly rookies. Many states haven't given raises to police in several years. Here in Florida, three. Note: Police administrators receive state administrator raises and health care, far different and far higher than the rank and file.
• Quit hiring high school graduates with little or no education. Require at least a two year degree in Criminal Justice. Thoroughly vet returning veterans before hiring and test for PTSD. Administer physical and psychological exams to all new hires. Establish weight standards and require officers to maintain them. Recruit nationwide and offer salaries and benefits that exceed other states. Right now, the average police salary in every city in Florida is below the national average. How can you get quality employees without quality pay and benefits?
• Restore funding for police training. The state of Florida cut police training budgets by 40% in the 2014 budget, and today provides only $67 per officer for training. A quick Google search shows this is true for most states.
• While we're on the subject, stop local police departments from arming themselves like a military junta. It's too expensive and unnecessary. We have State National Guards. Put that money into gear that protects the officer.
• And above all, reach out to the people. Hold open discussions on racism, profiling and other issues with the populace. Work together to solve problems.

In addition to all of the above, the standards to even be a cop have been reduced to a very low level. The candidates going into the police forces are bad. I was watching an episode of Cops and the cop they were riding along said he does the job because of the respect he is showed. That is the wrong reason to be a cop. This dude is a asshole who gets off on his power over others. Too many of our cops are that way. Add to that the poor training, and the lack of oversight and you have a ticking time bomb.

 

[Agit8r]

They don't follow the Peelian principles anymore, and expect everyone to lick their boots because of it.

The nine principles:

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

 

[JoeMoma]

My nephew earned a 4 year degree in criminal justice before becoming a cop.

 

[Agit8r]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

Narrowly.

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years

 

[depotoo]

The funding cut in Florida was for specialized training.
Police Officer Continued-Training Budget Cut By 40 Percent In Florida

A spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said, the money for continuing training comes mostly from court fees, including the fines tacked onto traffic tickets. But, she said, as crime rates have gone down, the fund has been declining since 2006, and it’s expected to keep declining.

So, in order to keep all 40 of the training centers operating, last month, the commission that manages the fund approved the 40 percent reduction in training money for next year.

And then Gov Scott put in a special budget item for training after the Commission announced their cuts to give them the money they needed.
Governor Rick Scott Announces Funding for Officer Training in “It’s Your Money” Tax Cut Budget
Governor Scott said, “Florida’s law enforcement officers deserve to have the tools they need to keep Florida families and communities safe. Florida’s 43-year low in crime is due in large part to the quality and training of our officers. To continue this trend our officers need the proper training and funding for that training. My proposed budget will help ensure that Floridians remain among the safest they have ever been.”

The $3.2 million in funding for the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Trust Fund will allow the trust fund to raise the funding allocation from $40 to $67 per officer/student. The trust fund’s primary revenue source (92%) is from a $3 court cost added to fines and penalties from persons convicted of a crime. Because fewer court fee dollars were collected, less money in the trust fund was available for training than in past years. All state and local law enforcement and correctional officers are eligible to receive funding from the trust fund for approved training.

As I was reading the latest thread on another innocent black man (in this case, a therapist protecting an autistic man with a plastic truck), I started thinking and wondering what the problem is. And I'm not going to say a thing about race, racial profiling, and police attitudes towards blacks.

What is I will say is today's police corps is in shambles. Police are woefully underpaid, untrained and unmanageable.

Here's what's wrong IMO and what needs to be fixed.

• Work with police unions to increase starting salaries for all police officers, particularly rookies. Many states haven't given raises to police in several years. Here in Florida, three. Note: Police administrators receive state administrator raises and health care, far different and far higher than the rank and file.
• Quit hiring high school graduates with little or no education. Require at least a two year degree in Criminal Justice. Thoroughly vet returning veterans before hiring and test for PTSD. Administer physical and psychological exams to all new hires. Establish weight standards and require officers to maintain them. Recruit nationwide and offer salaries and benefits that exceed other states. Right now, the average police salary in every city in Florida is below the national average. How can you get quality employees without quality pay and benefits?
• Restore funding for police training. The state of Florida cut police training budgets by 40% in the 2014 budget, and today provides only $67 per officer for training. A quick Google search shows this is true for most states.
• While we're on the subject, stop local police departments from arming themselves like a military junta. It's too expensive and unnecessary. We have State National Guards. Put that money into gear that protects the officer.
• And above all, reach out to the people. Hold open discussions on racism, profiling and other issues with the populace. Work together to solve problems.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

Narrowly.

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years

Ask 10 people if randomly shooting cops is OK....you won't get narrowly and anyone that does agree needs to look deep inside themselves and figure out what it wrong with them

 

[Agit8r]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

Narrowly.

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years

Ask 10 people if randomly shooting cops is OK....you won't get narrowly

Around these parts it's probably closer to 50/50

Derek Whitten - Derek Whitten posted a video to Spokane... | Facebook

 

[320 Years of History]

My thoughts about your proposals, OP:

• Work with police unions to increase starting salaries for all police officers, particularly rookies. Many states haven't given raises to police in several years. Here in Florida, three. Note: Police administrators receive state administrator raises and health care, far different and far higher than the rank and file.
  • Red: Nix the unions. I feel police unions are material contributors to the problem and marginal at best contributors to whatever solutions are put forth.
  • Blue: I'm okay with that to a point, but in return I want a higher caliber individual wearing that badge.
• Quit hiring high school graduates with little or no education. Require at least a two year degree in Criminal Justice. Thoroughly vet returning veterans before hiring and test for PTSD. Administer physical and psychological exams to all new hires. Establish weight standards and require officers to maintain them. Recruit nationwide and offer salaries and benefits that exceed other states. Right now, the average police salary in every city in Florida is below the national average. How can you get quality employees without quality pay and benefits?
  • Education: I happen to think a 4 year degree is what they should have with a required criminology (criminal justice) minor, or one can major in that and do no minor. There are a few course areas that may not fall into the standard criminology curriculum, but that I think cops need, some in psychology, sociology, minority studies, and civil liberties. There are many careers in law enforcement, the "beat cop" route is just one of them.
    
    I also think police forces should have minimum academic performance requirements of 3.2 overall and 3.5 in the criminology program coursework, with hiring managers allowed a degree of discretionary freedom to accept a limited number (maybe 5% or 10% of each hiring year's "rookie" class) of folks who have less than 3.2 overall, but who do meet the 3.5 "in major/minor" requirement.
• Restore funding for police training. The state of Florida cut police training budgets by 40% in the 2014 budget, and today provides only $67 per officer for training. A quick Google search shows this is true for most states.
  • Training: I think the subject matter their training covers, and how rigorously the material is taught and the level of mastery expected is more important than how much is spent on it. Additionally, I think there should be an ongoing professional education requirement for all cops. There should be multiple "tracks" of education provided to allow cops to grow their careers in whatever way makes sense for them and in a direction that aligns each individual's personal professional goals. For example, "street beat," investigations, administration & management, crisis management, etc. (There may already be continuing education required, and if there is, perhaps the wrong content is being taught (or taught to the wrong people) or omitted or underemphasized or something...I don't know.)
• While we're on the subject, stop local police departments from arming themselves like a military junta. It's too expensive and unnecessary. We have State National Guards. Put that money into gear that protects the officer.
• And above all, reach out to the people. Hold open discussions on racism, profiling and other issues with the populace. Work together to solve problems.
  • That is certainly a type of education that's needed. I think cops need to get back to doing neighborhood police work. While I know cops do patrol my neighborhood in D.C., I also know they don't stop and knock on the door to introduce themselves and become part of the community they are entrusted to protect and serve.
    
    I know that consulting ins't the same as policing, and I know too that I can't very well help someone -- client, colleague or mentoree -- whom I don't know somewhat. I am all but certain that effectively policing an area works more or less the same way....In other words, it's about the relationship.
    
    The major problem in my mind is that the level of "known" to one's local cops is at too general level. For example, there is no way a cop who sees me on the street in front of my home in D.C. (~150 homes in the neighborhood) knows that I live there. I know no cop has stopped by just to introduce him-/herself, or to leave a card asking that I call just to get acquainted, or whatever. In contrast, the cops in the small town where I have a cabin know me by name, say "hi," tell me about their kids, ask about mine, and make other kinds of small talk. Once, a cop told me about my kids having been there with some friends and having a party of sorts when I didn't know they had gone up there.
    
    The key is that I'm there even less than I'm in D.C., yet the cops made a point of getting to my and other residents' families. That has not happened with the cops in my section of D.C. and I don't know why. Grass growing is about all that's happening there during the day, so the cops assigned to my "hood" certainly can find the time to introduce themselves, especially seeing as they'd be getting paid to do so.

 

[Howey]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

I remember just a couple of years ago conservatives were up in arms over police unions.

 

[JoeMoma]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

I remember just a couple of years ago conservatives were up in arms over police unions.

So?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

I remember just a couple of years ago conservatives were up in arms over police unions.

That has nothing to do with blacks randomly shooting police officers.

 

[Ravi]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

They support it...you may go now with your nonsense

 

[Ravi]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

They support it...you may go now with your nonsense

No, they do not in fact they have condemned it.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

They support it...you may go now with your nonsense

No, they do not in fact they have condemned it.

I can put up numerous articles and videos that blow their claim out of the water. BLM is a disorganized mess, no real ideology, no real goals and no real platform. They act like a bunch of terrorists and they need to chill. People are weary of their nonsense

 

[Ravi]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

They support it...you may go now with your nonsense

No, they do not in fact they have condemned it.

I can put up numerous articles and videos that blow their claim out of the water. BLM is a disorganized mess, no real ideology, no real goals and no real platform. They act like a bunch of terrorists and they need to chill. People are weary of their nonsense

I've seen those videos. None of then are of BLM.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are good cops and there are bad apples...but you don't go around randomly shooting cops over the bad apples. BLM and the others are doing themselves no favors doing that. Public sentiment is with blue.

BLM is not shooting cops.

They support it...you may go now with your nonsense

No, they do not in fact they have condemned it.

I can put up numerous articles and videos that blow their claim out of the water. BLM is a disorganized mess, no real ideology, no real goals and no real platform. They act like a bunch of terrorists and they need to chill. People are weary of their nonsense

I've seen those videos. None of then are of BLM.

Whatever

 

[FA_Q2]

I think you missed one - accountability. One of the core problems here is that there is a perception that the police are killing people that they should not and getting away with it entirely. Some of the more public cases have been baring this out. I hate to think of what happens when no one even notices.

Also:

While we're on the subject, stop local police departments from arming themselves like a military junta. It's too expensive and unnecessary. We have State National Guards. Put that money into gear that protects the officer.

Is not true. The reason that police are using military gear is precisely because it is cheaper. Free as a matter of fact. The military gives them the equipment as they pull it out of service and we have an amazing surplus of military gear after winding down Iraq. I actually agree with the overall point - military gear is meant to intimidate and make better killers out of soldiers and is not suited for police work but it is not price that is the problem. It would be more expensive to stop using that equipment.