A Poll About Gun Control

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Noomi, Aug 20, 2013.

?

Answer The Question!

Poll closed Nov 28, 2013.
  1. Option A

    23.3%
  2. Option B

    76.7%
  1. Jimmy_Jam
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    Jimmy_Jam Senior Member

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    numan,

    If you are not American, I will simply disregard your comments and unimportant. If you are, and your opinion of American and Americans is that low, you know what to do.
     
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  2. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    I do not think that homicides did see an increase. See my earlier thread about the homicide rate. Looks relatively flat throughout the entire time.

    I question any source that failed to get that statistical fact correct as well.

    The lone spike after (and small dip during) the gun confiscation cannot be attributed to the law – it dropped right after. Spikes and dips are common in examination of things like murder rates. The overall trend was virtually flat though.
     
  3. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    I think the point was that you are too late from stopping those like numan from coming to TX. They are already there gravitating to the few liberal bastions ion TX. You have been invaded already – it’s just that there were not enough to take over the government there.
     
  4. eflatminor
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    eflatminor Classical Liberal

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    In an effort to demonstrate the trends of several types of violent crime, I quoted Australian government statistics related to firearm-related murders, armed robberies, home invasions and overall homicide rates. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistic (Crime and Justice - Crimes Recorded by Police) and the Australian Institute of Criminology (Report #46: Homicide in Australia, April 2003), in the three years after the confiscation, firearm-related murders were up 19%, armed robberies were up 69%, and home invasions up 21%. The following year, homicides were up 20%. I'd argue that's a pretty broad and unbiased look at violent crime rates following the ban. Further, as idb's link shows, the 'gun-murder' rate has steadily increased. Taken together, the results demonstrate, IMO, that the ban did more harm than good.
     
  5. jon_berzerk
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    jon_berzerk Gold Member

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    armed robberies, home invasions

    i have not studied Australian crime trends for awhile

    but i remember that Hot Home invasions ( where the victim is home at the time)

    skyrocketed after the strict gun control was incorporated
     
  6. idb
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    idb Gold Member

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    I was replying to this assertion by you...specifically related to gun crimes
    However, you can try this graph then.
    Allowing for annual fluctuations, it shows a steady decline in homicide rates, which continues.
    Long term trends are more reliable than snapshots of a year.

    I'm not sure if I said that gun control measures in Australia have improved the homicide rates...however I do dispute the assertion by firearms advocates that guns make a society safer, and these figures bear that out...gun controls were strengthened and the long-term reducing trend of murders has continued.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
     

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  7. idb
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    idb Gold Member

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    Think about it, of course you believe in some restrictions.
    Haven't you already spoken about people with mental illness for example?
    This isn't a 'gotcha'...just pointing out that almost nobody advocates for unrestricted access to firearms.
     
  8. C_Clayton_Jones
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    C_Clayton_Jones Diamond Member

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    And those who do advocate unrestricted access to firearms are ignorant of the law and irresponsible.
     
  9. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    No, you were not because I have never made that claim, that was another poster ;)

    I walked in on the middle of that conversation though. I refuted BOTH of your claims in this thread of the discussion though. I don’t see a significant increase in homicide rates that justify the claims that it was related to the gun law BUT you are also making a POSITIVE assertion that the homicide rate dropped because of the law. That is also incorrect as shown by the actual homicide rate without qualifies added.
    Which is why I referred to trends and overall rate over many years. Again, it took about 7 years of a general flat homicide rate before a reasonable downward trend started appearing. To attribute that to a law passed 7 years ago stretches the concept of causality past a breaking point. It makes no real sense.
    And I have not made that claim. My claim is that gun laws do NOTHING for crime rates at all. The data bears THAT out clearly and not your claims that gun laws make anything safer. You are attributing a downward trend realized 7 years after the fact to that law while the rates before and after were relatively flat. That is rather nonsensical. Further, the overall downward trend when taken during a larger time frame has not changed at all. The homicide rate in Australia has been trending that way for 2 decades since they started recording them in the first place.
    [url]http://aic.gov.au/media_library/aic/research/homicide/homiciderate2.png[/url]
    [img]
    (same site)
    Where are the effects of the gun law? They are not there. The realized crime rates don’t seem to care what the gun laws are. The only logical conclusion is that criminals are going to break the law regardless and that further gun restrictions are simply not effective at changing those rates or results.
     
  10. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    That is not restricted access in the way that we are speaking about. That is a removal of rights through the court system. That would be like saying that I advocate for people to be restricted in when they can leave their house or forced to stay indoors. That would be incorrect however the courts actively use house arrest for those that have broken the law or institutionalization for the truly crazy.

    There is a MASSIVE chasm between gun control and the legal restrictions on rights imposed through the courts.

    What we are talking about is further gun regulation.

    Of course it’s not a ‘gotcha’ cause you haven’t got me yet :D
     

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