A Political and Moral dilemma solved: Homosexuality

[TemplarKormac]

I had a tough go of it. No really, as a Christian I think homosexuality and gay marriage are wrong and patently sinful, thusly I don't condone either. I've really wrestled my conscience mightily over it. But after a mighty struggle and in a moment of clarity, it has dawned on me that gay people deserve rights like I do, and I will defend them, I won't force equality, I'll fight for it. America is supposed to be a bastion of freedom and free association.

Yes, the Republicans on this board can go ahead and get angry at me all they want, this position will not change. I really don't care how gay people become gay, they deserve to be treated equally. I don't have a problem with people holding true to their morals, but when they agree to serve people equally under the law, they should.

You can't just set aside a just law for the sole reason of your personal belief. You can serve people equally without ever personally condoning the lifestyle choices of others. Equality has no bias.

 

[g5000]

If your OP is genuine, Templar, then you have my respect.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If your OP is genuine, Templar, then you have my respect.

My good man, I've not been this serious in my life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Prepare for a barrage.

You have done well, man.

 

[Sunni Man]

If a faggot isn't free to pack fudge.

Are any of us really free?? .....

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Well thought out. Good on you.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Well thought out. Good on you.

I'd thought I would stop simply calling myself a libertarian and start acting like one. What I said was with a lot of guidance from my devoutly Christian grandmother (surprise!), who like me thinks homosexuality and gay marriage is a sin. She lived through the civil rights era down here in South, so the atmosphere was ready to explode at any moment back then. Heck she got caught in a riot once. As a result she never wants to see that kind of atmosphere again; with that in mind she gave me some advice:

She told me that homosexuals should never be mistreated, and despite her view on their lifestyle she told me that they deserve the same rights under the law that she and I enjoy. So long as there's a mutual respect, people should just leave each other alone. That pretty much nailed it.

It took me the better part of a decade to reach this position. I was a die hard neo-conservative in 2007, I thought gays should be excised from the earth, who were a disease that deserved no dignity nor equality (yeah, that was the mind of a naive 20 year old just two years removed from High School). But, all I am now is a simple libertarian.

Be it known, I will openly challenge attacks on gay rights with the same fervor I do with my other arguments, my belief in limited government dictates that I do just that. If people don't want government in their lives, they shouldn't use government to dictate the lives of others.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Prepare for a barrage.

You have done well, man.

You should know me by now. This knight is well armored, and his shield will not break.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If a faggot isn't free to pack fudge.

Are any of us really free?? .....

I'm sorry?

 

[TemplarKormac]

...

I thought I'd get a bunch of backlash. Surprisingly, eh, quiet...

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh well, I've stated my piece.

 

[Coyote]

You're cool Tk

 

[Truth2Know]

Christians are commanded to love everyone. If you love someone, and they are engaged in an activity that can potentially separate them from God for all eternity, aren't you required to guide them to the truth? To allow them to continue to practice what God has condemned is not love; it's avoiding your responsibility.

It's interesting to consider Romans 1:18 - 32. Homosexuality and lesbianism are not condemned in these passages. These practices are condemned elsewhere in the Bible. In these verses, homosexuality and lesbianism are the punishment for not acknowledging God as creator and Lord. God "gave them over" to their own destructive practices because they rejected His truth. They chose to follow man's ways, not God's ways.

Speak and apply God's truth in love. This will resolve your moral and political dilemma.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you love someone, and they are engaged in an activity that can potentially separate them from God for all eternity, aren't you required to guide them to the truth?

Perhaps you should read the first few verses of Matthew 7. I am not willing to dole out judgement on others so easily, lest I be judged in the same manner.

To allow them to continue to practice what God has condemned is not love; it's avoiding your responsibility.

It's interesting to consider Romans 1:18 - 32. Homosexuality and lesbianism are not condemned in these passages. These practices are condemned elsewhere in the Bible. In these verses, homosexuality and lesbianism are the punishment for not acknowledging God as creator and Lord. God "gave them over" to their own destructive practices because they rejected His truth. They chose to follow man's ways, not God's ways.

Ah, but I can't stop them, can you? I have not the power to, besides, what they do is between them and God. God is the judge, not you, and most certainly not me. If homosexuality is a sin according to our faith, then it can be forgiven. Forgiveness is love. And please, don't lecture me about responsibility.

Speak and apply God's truth in love. This will resolve your moral and political dilemma.

If you say so. But I think I have pretty much resolved my dilemma.

 

[Edgetho]

I had a tough go of it. No really, as a Christian I think homosexuality and gay marriage are wrong and patently sinful, thusly I don't condone either. I've really wrestled my conscience mightily over it. But after a mighty struggle and in a moment of clarity, it has dawned on me that gay people deserve rights like I do, and I will defend them, I won't force equality, I'll fight for it. America is supposed to be a bastion of freedom and free association.

Yes, the Republicans on this board can go ahead and get angry at me all they want, this position will not change. I really don't care how gay people become gay, they deserve to be treated equally. I don't have a problem with people holding true to their morals, but when they agree to serve people equally under the law, they should.

You can't just set aside a just law for the sole reason of your personal belief. You can serve people equally without ever personally condoning the lifestyle choices of others. Equality has no bias.

Sounds more like a surrender document than a reasoned post.

But I really don't care all that much about what butt-rangers do.

In fact, I think it benefits the gene pool when they decide not to reproduce so, in a fashion, I guess I can support them too.

Sort of.

If I cared enough (I don't) I could give you a five page thesis on why the 'equal treatment' fallacy is just that -- A fallacy.

But that's okay, Temp.

Whatever floats your boat

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sounds more like a surrender document than a reasoned post

Nope. The words "I surrender" don't appear anywhere in the post.

If I cared enough (I don't) I could give you a five page thesis on why the 'equal treatment' fallacy is just that -- A fallacy.

Equality is a myth, but equal treatment is not. Treat them the same way you want to be treated. Equal treatment, as described in the Bible:

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 13:16

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.

Mark 12:31

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 19:33-34

But that's okay, Temp.

Whatever floats your boat

I appreciate your understanding.

 

[NYcarbineer]

...

I thought I'd get a bunch of backlash. Surprisingly, eh, quiet...

The cult members on the right won't attack you until they're certain they've lost you to the dark side.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I had a tough go of it. No really, as a Christian I think homosexuality and gay marriage are wrong and patently sinful, thusly I don't condone either. I've really wrestled my conscience mightily over it. But after a mighty struggle and in a moment of clarity, it has dawned on me that gay people deserve rights like I do, and I will defend them, I won't force equality, I'll fight for it. America is supposed to be a bastion of freedom and free association.

Yes, the Republicans on this board can go ahead and get angry at me all they want, this position will not change. I really don't care how gay people become gay, they deserve to be treated equally. I don't have a problem with people holding true to their morals, but when they agree to serve people equally under the law, they should.

You can't just set aside a just law for the sole reason of your personal belief. You can serve people equally without ever personally condoning the lifestyle choices of others. Equality has no bias.

So you're claiming that deceit is equal with truth?

Because the only thing that Homosexuals are crying about, in terms of inequality, is that people of reason do not accept sexual deviancy as sexual abnormality.

Meaning that the Homosexual claim is false and they demand that it be accepted as truth. And they claim that because of THAT, they're being denied RIGHTS.

This stems off into a plethora of subsequent issues, with their demand that the culture shoudl reject the natural standard of marriage based again: upon the deceit, that sexual deviancy is normal.

It's not normal, and marriage is the joining of one man and one woman.

So... what are you 'accepting', if not a demonstrable falsity, as truth?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 3:28

Uh... That's relevant only to one's relationship with Christ. It's the principle which the Founders expressed as
"All men are created equal"... before God. Just as all men are weighed equally before the law.

That in no way means that we should all suspend judgment.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The cult members on the right won't attack you until they're certain they've lost you to the dark side.

ROFLMNAO!

Isn't it adorable when they mimic those they believe are making the most effective argument?

I just don't seem to be able to get my fill of watchin' 'em do it.