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A plea to the religious folks: Don't you dare tell us what to do until you fix your priest sex scandals, pope sex scandals, the polygamy fiasco, etc (all under religion.).
Until you address and fix every single one of these problems, FUCK OFF!
If the only thing stopping you from thinking child molestation is a-okay is the expectation of eventual punishment after you're dead and not, say, the fact that it's disgusting on several levels because it's child molestation, you're a pretty fucked up human being.
If the only thing stopping you from thinking child molestation is a-okay is the expectation of eventual punishment after you're dead and not, say, the fact that it's disgusting on several levels because it's child molestation, you're a pretty fucked up human being.
And if you think that's the author's point, you're morally and intellectually bankrupt.
If the only thing stopping you from thinking child molestation is a-okay is the expectation of eventual punishment after you're dead and not, say, the fact that it's disgusting on several levels because it's child molestation, you're a pretty fucked up human being.
And if you think that's the author's point, you're morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Good questions bodacea. I would say NOTHING keeps religious people moral, except their fear of going to hell.
Good questions bodacea. I would say NOTHING keeps religious people moral, except their fear of going to hell.
Not really. While I consider myself Christian, I think murder is immoral. As is rape etc, etc. Most Humans do to. I dont know any Atheist who encourage the molestation of children, or murder. They are borne with an idea of whats right and wrong, just like everyone else . I wont go into the theological parts for Christians because for me its not a debate. In short, some folks are borne decant, some are borne ass holes, and some are sick motherfuckers . Just the way it is.
A plea to the religious folks: Don't you dare tell us what to do until you fix your priest sex scandals, pope sex scandals, the polygamy fiasco, etc (all under religion.).
Until you address and fix every single one of these problems, FUCK OFF!
Nitroz I think you went a little off the deep end but some of what you said is correct.
But one thing you have to remember, to most religions of the world being a non-believer, no matter how nice you are, is worse than being a believer and a pedophile or pervert.
Pedophiles and perverts who ruin lives of children can simply believe and ask for forgiveness and they're fine, non-believers are doomed no matter their character or treatment of children.
Something really off about thinking non-believers are worse people than pedophiles and murderers just because they don't believe your religious dogma.
Something wrong with saying a pedophile or murderer is "saved" because he took Jesus as his savior just before his execution.
Good questions bodacea. I would say NOTHING keeps religious people moral, except their fear of going to hell.
So, the only thing that kept you from raping small children was buddhism? Perhaps we should alert the authorities, then.
Good questions bodacea. I would say NOTHING keeps religious people moral, except their fear of going to hell.
So, the only thing that kept you from raping small children was buddhism? Perhaps we should alert the authorities, then.
No. Raping people is wrong. Every human is borne with that knowledge. That is explained in the Bible, and I assume the Koran. Religion does provide a moral compass, but only to those who adhere to it. A Christian who says murder is wrong and abortion is wrong, yet takes joy in the death of a murder is a hypocrite. Fear of going to hell is part of it, but mostly, folks try and do the right thing because its the right thing.
No. Raping people is wrong. Every human is borne with that knowledge. That is explained in the Bible, and I assume the Koran. Religion does provide a moral compass, but only to those who adhere to it. A Christian who says murder is wrong and abortion is wrong, yet takes joy in the death of a murder is a hypocrite. Fear of going to hell is part of it, but mostly, folks try and do the right thing because its the right thing.
Judges 21:10-24
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Numbers 31:7-18 NLT
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
No. Raping people is wrong. Every human is borne with that knowledge. That is explained in the Bible, and I assume the Koran. Religion does provide a moral compass, but only to those who adhere to it. A Christian who says murder is wrong and abortion is wrong, yet takes joy in the death of a murder is a hypocrite. Fear of going to hell is part of it, but mostly, folks try and do the right thing because its the right thing.
Actually, the Bible endorses rape in some circumstances, such as the rape/pillaging/ownership of an enemy population's virgin daughters. In the era of the old testament, women were property, and were treated as such. Morality evolves. We have a view of our own current morality as being permanent, but it is far from the case.
Judges 21:10-24
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Numbers 31:7-18 NLT
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Morals don't come from Religion.
Yes they do, it depends on the person. A devout catholic takes thier cues on morality from Catholic doctrine. Where else would they get it from?
The self aggandizing premise of the stupidly religious (note that by characterizing what kind of religious people, I am suggesting that not all religious people are stupid) that morality is the exclusive domain of believers is false.
I know plenty of antheists whose moral conduct is beyond reproach.
I also know far more "believers" with histories that are highly immoral.
We all I know those folks, I suspect.
The golden rule is far older than any religion.
WE are, after all social creatures so something like the golden rule has to be in effect otherwise no society of men would have survived very long.
No. Raping people is wrong. Every human is borne with that knowledge. That is explained in the Bible, and I assume the Koran. Religion does provide a moral compass, but only to those who adhere to it. A Christian who says murder is wrong and abortion is wrong, yet takes joy in the death of a murder is a hypocrite. Fear of going to hell is part of it, but mostly, folks try and do the right thing because its the right thing.
Actually, the Bible endorses rape in some circumstances, such as the rape/pillaging/ownership of an enemy population's virgin daughters. In the era of the old testament, women were property, and were treated as such. Morality evolves. We have a view of our own current morality as being permanent, but it is far from the case.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
And yet you conveniently leave out all the other parts about how slaves are to be treated, as well as what Jesus says about slaves. You also neglect to mention that that's how things were done back then. Oh, and ware does it say rape them ? You also only read the first sentence or two before you posted.
Actually, the Bible endorses rape in some circumstances, such as the rape/pillaging/ownership of an enemy population's virgin daughters. In the era of the old testament, women were property, and were treated as such. Morality evolves. We have a view of our own current morality as being permanent, but it is far from the case.
And yet you conveniently leave out all the other parts about how slaves are to be treated, as well as what Jesus says about slaves. You also neglect to mention that that's how things were done back then. Oh, and ware does it say rape them ? You also only read the first sentence or two before you posted.
Good point, it's hard to pick out which contradiction is what the Bible actually means.
The Bible talks about the horrors of adultery, but then says a rape victim has to marry her rapist.
Some of the Bible's teachings we're morally outgrown as a species, some we're still far from living up to.
