A non-political thread on the warming of the planet

[Freewill]

It would be a very gradual change, despite the doom and gloom predictions ones sees. Changes on a planetary scale don't happen rapidly, unless you are talking about impact events or massive volcanic activity.

Wrong in so many ways. It is not gradual. The combination of industrial, agricultural, and household pollution is having a major effect on our environment already. The warming due to the GHGs in the atmosphere is warming the planet at a rate only seen in the major extinction events from the geological record.

Could you site the times that there was mass extinctions due to warming temperatures? Please. Are you sure you didn't mean cooling temperatures, you know like when the meteorite hit the Yucatan.

Timeline of a mass extinction

New evidence points to rapid collapse of Earth’s species 252 million years ago.

Jennifer Chu, MIT News Office
November 18, 2011


While the causes of this global catastrophe are unknown, an MIT-led team of researchers has now established that the end-Permian extinction was extremely rapid, triggering massive die-outs both in the oceans and on land in less than 20,000 years — the blink of an eye in geologic time. The researchers also found that this time period coincides with a massive buildup of atmospheric carbon dioxide, which likely triggered the simultaneous collapse of species in the oceans and on land.

With further calculations, the group found that the average rate at which carbon dioxide entered the atmosphere during the end-Permian extinction was slightly below today’s rate of carbon dioxide release into the atmosphere due to fossil fuel emissions. Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions.

The researchers also discovered evidence of simultaneous and widespread wildfires that may have added to end-Permian global warming, triggering what they deem “catastrophic” soil erosion and making environments extremely arid and inhospitable.

The researchers present their findings this week in Science, and say the new timescale may help scientists home in on the end-Permian extinction’s likely causes.

Timeline of a mass extinction

Since this was written, much more has been discovered. And there was a very rapid warming with a vast methane addition at that time.

Quote: "While the causes are UNKNOWN..." Very first sentence.

Unknown yet they go on to tell you what did happen.

Quote2: "Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions." Last sentence in red.

Is LIKELY a scientific term that actually means it did? Obviously that is how they are playing the game.

Truth is, they think they might know a likely cause.

Here are two articles on mass extinction which I think you will find interesting:

Information and Facts About Mass Extinctions

New Theory for What Caused Earth's Second-Largest Mass Extinction

Thank you for the articles. The one concerning the Ordovician extinction was new to me. Interesting. The P-T had a lot of causes, stacked up like stair steps according to the articles I have read. First, the Siberian Trapps, the largest flood volcanic province known, may have initially cooled the climate, from aerosols, then warmed it from CO2. Also, the Trapp cooked massive coal deposits and created a lot of CH4. Then the oceans warmed enough to cook off the methane clathrates. Game over, at that point. Many other subsidiary effects left out, such as the production of hydrogen sulfide by the oceans.

That we cannot say with absolute certainty that each of these things occurred as the proxies indicate is simply an indication of the present lack of data. But we are now getting data daily, and, because of the net, it is available to other scientists in the same discipline immediatly. Wonderful, but does make it hard for the interested amateur to keep up.

So in the end they are uncertain about what they think might have caused the extinctions. Thus the whole global warming leading to mass extinct really has no basis.

 

[LittleNipper]

The truth is that we are living in the end on the Age, just prior to the TRIBULATION Period. It would be a total waste of money to try to stop the inevitable. What is needed is prayer.. .

OK, how much did prayer help in the concentration camps in Germany? A lazy excuse for not thinking or doing anything.

Sorry, but everything I've read tells me that prayer did far more to help the Jews and others stuck under Nazi control than did any of the secular nations that sat around turning away Jewish refugees. We certainly can recycle and work towards not wasting energy but I have to laugh at the elitists who want to remove elephants from the circus, close Sea World, while promoting abortion, and attempting to prove that GOD doesn't exist. Maybe I do not hold to secular standards of thinking but I do see the handwriting on the wall! And GOD is not happy...

 

[Old Rocks]

Wrong in so many ways. It is not gradual. The combination of industrial, agricultural, and household pollution is having a major effect on our environment already. The warming due to the GHGs in the atmosphere is warming the planet at a rate only seen in the major extinction events from the geological record.

Could you site the times that there was mass extinctions due to warming temperatures? Please. Are you sure you didn't mean cooling temperatures, you know like when the meteorite hit the Yucatan.

Timeline of a mass extinction

New evidence points to rapid collapse of Earth’s species 252 million years ago.

Jennifer Chu, MIT News Office
November 18, 2011


While the causes of this global catastrophe are unknown, an MIT-led team of researchers has now established that the end-Permian extinction was extremely rapid, triggering massive die-outs both in the oceans and on land in less than 20,000 years — the blink of an eye in geologic time. The researchers also found that this time period coincides with a massive buildup of atmospheric carbon dioxide, which likely triggered the simultaneous collapse of species in the oceans and on land.

With further calculations, the group found that the average rate at which carbon dioxide entered the atmosphere during the end-Permian extinction was slightly below today’s rate of carbon dioxide release into the atmosphere due to fossil fuel emissions. Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions.

The researchers also discovered evidence of simultaneous and widespread wildfires that may have added to end-Permian global warming, triggering what they deem “catastrophic” soil erosion and making environments extremely arid and inhospitable.

The researchers present their findings this week in Science, and say the new timescale may help scientists home in on the end-Permian extinction’s likely causes.

Timeline of a mass extinction

Since this was written, much more has been discovered. And there was a very rapid warming with a vast methane addition at that time.

Quote: "While the causes are UNKNOWN..." Very first sentence.

Unknown yet they go on to tell you what did happen.

Quote2: "Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions." Last sentence in red.

Is LIKELY a scientific term that actually means it did? Obviously that is how they are playing the game.

Truth is, they think they might know a likely cause.

Here are two articles on mass extinction which I think you will find interesting:

Information and Facts About Mass Extinctions

New Theory for What Caused Earth's Second-Largest Mass Extinction

Thank you for the articles. The one concerning the Ordovician extinction was new to me. Interesting. The P-T had a lot of causes, stacked up like stair steps according to the articles I have read. First, the Siberian Trapps, the largest flood volcanic province known, may have initially cooled the climate, from aerosols, then warmed it from CO2. Also, the Trapp cooked massive coal deposits and created a lot of CH4. Then the oceans warmed enough to cook off the methane clathrates. Game over, at that point. Many other subsidiary effects left out, such as the production of hydrogen sulfide by the oceans.

That we cannot say with absolute certainty that each of these things occurred as the proxies indicate is simply an indication of the present lack of data. But we are now getting data daily, and, because of the net, it is available to other scientists in the same discipline immediatly. Wonderful, but does make it hard for the interested amateur to keep up.

So in the end they are uncertain about what they think might have caused the extinctions. Thus the whole global warming leading to mass extinct really has no basis.

Quite on the contrary. We know from the proxies that there was a rapid warming. Exactly what was the key factor is not certain. But we know there was a rapid increase of CO2, and then a rapid increase of CH4. We know most of the ocean went anoxic, and was much more acidic than normal. What the exact cause was for each of these events is being debated at present.


Next Article

Articles
Methane Release from Igneous Intrusion of Coal during Late Permian Extinction Events


Gregory J. Retallack and A. Hope Jahren1
Department of Geological Sciences, University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon 97403‐1272, U.S.A.
(e‐mail: [email protected])


RECEIVED: May 29, 2007
ACCEPTED: Oct 01, 2007

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Abstract
Unusually large and locally variable carbon isotope excursions coincident with mass extinctions at the end of the Permian Period (253 Ma) and Guadalupian Epoch (260 Ma) can be attributed to methane outbursts to the atmosphere. Methane has isotopic values (δ13C) low enough to reduce to feasible amounts the carbon required for isotopic mass balance. The duration of the carbon isotopic excursions and inferred methane releases are here constrained to <10,000 yr by counting annual varves in lake deposits and by estimating peat accumulation rates. On paleogeographic maps, the most marked carbon isotope excursions form linear arrays back to plausible methane sources: end‐Permian Siberian Traps and Longwood‐Bluff intrusions of New Zealand and end‐Guadalupian Emeishan Traps of China. Intrusion of coal seams by feeder dikes to flood basalts could create successive thermogenic methane outbursts of the observed timing and magnitude, but these are unreasonably short times for replenishment of marine or permafrost sources of methane. Methane released by fracturing and heating of coal during intrusion of large igneous provinces may have been a planetary hazard comparable with bolide impact.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/524120

δ13Corg chemostratigraphy of the Permian‐Triassic boundary in the Maitai Group, New Zealand: Evidence for high‐latitudinal methane release
E. S. Krull, G. J. Retallack, H. J. Campbell & G. L. Lyon
Pages 21-32 | Received 18 Dec 1998, Accepted 14 Sep 1999, Published online: 23 Mar 2010


Abstract
Carbon isotopic studies from marine organic matter of the Permian‐Triassic Maitai Group, New Zealand, reveal a significant δ13Corg shift toward more negative values within the Little Ben Sandstone Formation. These isotopic data chemostratigraphically define the previously debated position of the Permian‐Triassic boundary in the Maitai Group. The Permian‐Triassic record of the Maitai Group is also important because of its high paleolatitudinal setting and the deposition at intermediate depths in the ocean (c. 400 m) within a volcanic arc‐related basin. Marine Permian‐Triassic strata deposited at water depths deeper than shelf areas are rare. High latitude Permian‐Triassic boundary sections document a significantly larger isotopic offset across the boundary compared with lower latitude settings.

Carbon isotopic values decrease rapidly by an average of 7%0 from homogeneous values (x ‐25%0) in the Tramway and lower Little Ben Sandstone Formation to highly fluctuating and very depleted values (x ‐32%0) within the Little Ben Sandstone Formation. The lowermost Big Ben and Tramway Formations are considered to be Permian in age, based on their homogeneous and comparably heavier carbon isotopic values and supported by fossil atomo‐desmatinid bivalves. Based on the distinct δ13Corg excursion toward negative values and the concurrent onset of strong isotopic fluctuations, the Permian‐Triassic boundary is placed in the lower half of the Little Ben Sandstone Formation.

Very depleted δ13C values in the Little Ben Sandstone Formation of‐38%0 indicate a contribution from isotopically light methane. A possible methane source is clathrates, released by large submarine slides or warming‐induced melting of permafrost. The Little Ben Sandstone Formation has been interpreted as a massive event deposit from a submarine slide (Landis 1980). This hypothesised methane release could have been in part responsible for the larger Permian‐Triassic isotopic shift in high latitudes compared with low latitudes because large volumes of clathrates are trapped in continental shelves and high‐latitude permafrost.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00288306.2000.9514868

We have, at present, a vast amount of CH4 in clathrate form in the Arctic.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, but everything I've read tells me that prayer did far more to help the Jews and others stuck under Nazi control than did any of the secular nations that sat around turning away Jewish refugees.

I would say they were both equally worthless.

Hey these were God's "Chosen People", and the Nazis turned them into lampshades and bars of soap without God doing jack-diddly shit about it.

If I were Jewish in 1945, I'd be wanting to see other Dieties...

We certainly can recycle and work towards not wasting energy but I have to laugh at the elitists who want to remove elephants from the circus, close Sea World, while promoting abortion,

Except no one is "promoting" abortion. Just recognizing women are going to have them no matter what the law is. Abortion is legal in the Philippines, but they have more abortions per capita than the US does. Meanwhile, France has half the number we do per capita, because they also have universal health care and paid family leave.

and attempting to prove that GOD doesn't exist. Maybe I do not hold to secular standards of thinking but I do see the handwriting on the wall! And GOD is not happy...

It's easy to prove God doesnt' exist.

Any bible thumper who thinks there is a God, let me throw you off the top of a tall building. If God catches you on the way down, I will not only join your church I will sign over all my worldly possessions to it. Just think of all the converts you could get if we had film of God saving you from a fatal fall on the 6 o'clock news.

Any takers?

Nope. Didn't think so.

So until God does something about the world, he can be as angry as he wants to be.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Wrong in so many ways. It is not gradual. The combination of industrial, agricultural, and household pollution is having a major effect on our environment already. The warming due to the GHGs in the atmosphere is warming the planet at a rate only seen in the major extinction events from the geological record.

Could you site the times that there was mass extinctions due to warming temperatures? Please. Are you sure you didn't mean cooling temperatures, you know like when the meteorite hit the Yucatan.

Timeline of a mass extinction

New evidence points to rapid collapse of Earth’s species 252 million years ago.

Jennifer Chu, MIT News Office
November 18, 2011


While the causes of this global catastrophe are unknown, an MIT-led team of researchers has now established that the end-Permian extinction was extremely rapid, triggering massive die-outs both in the oceans and on land in less than 20,000 years — the blink of an eye in geologic time. The researchers also found that this time period coincides with a massive buildup of atmospheric carbon dioxide, which likely triggered the simultaneous collapse of species in the oceans and on land.

With further calculations, the group found that the average rate at which carbon dioxide entered the atmosphere during the end-Permian extinction was slightly below today’s rate of carbon dioxide release into the atmosphere due to fossil fuel emissions. Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions.

The researchers also discovered evidence of simultaneous and widespread wildfires that may have added to end-Permian global warming, triggering what they deem “catastrophic” soil erosion and making environments extremely arid and inhospitable.

The researchers present their findings this week in Science, and say the new timescale may help scientists home in on the end-Permian extinction’s likely causes.

Timeline of a mass extinction

Since this was written, much more has been discovered. And there was a very rapid warming with a vast methane addition at that time.

Quote: "While the causes are UNKNOWN..." Very first sentence.

Unknown yet they go on to tell you what did happen.

Quote2: "Over tens of thousands of years, increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Permian period likely triggered severe global warming, accelerating species extinctions." Last sentence in red.

Is LIKELY a scientific term that actually means it did? Obviously that is how they are playing the game.

Truth is, they think they might know a likely cause.

Here are two articles on mass extinction which I think you will find interesting:

Information and Facts About Mass Extinctions

New Theory for What Caused Earth's Second-Largest Mass Extinction

Thank you for the articles. The one concerning the Ordovician extinction was new to me. Interesting. The P-T had a lot of causes, stacked up like stair steps according to the articles I have read. First, the Siberian Trapps, the largest flood volcanic province known, may have initially cooled the climate, from aerosols, then warmed it from CO2. Also, the Trapp cooked massive coal deposits and created a lot of CH4. Then the oceans warmed enough to cook off the methane clathrates. Game over, at that point. Many other subsidiary effects left out, such as the production of hydrogen sulfide by the oceans.

That we cannot say with absolute certainty that each of these things occurred as the proxies indicate is simply an indication of the present lack of data. But we are now getting data daily, and, because of the net, it is available to other scientists in the same discipline immediatly. Wonderful, but does make it hard for the interested amateur to keep up.

So in the end they are uncertain about what they think might have caused the extinctions. Thus the whole global warming leading to mass extinct really has no basis.

Of course it has a basis, both rational and evidentiary. Scientists themselves admit there is not enough evidence to accept it as fact. That is not the same as calling something, "baseless".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The truth is that we are living in the end on the Age, just prior to the TRIBULATION Period. It would be a total waste of money to try to stop the inevitable. What is needed is prayer.. .

OK, how much did prayer help in the concentration camps in Germany? A lazy excuse for not thinking or doing anything.

Sorry, but everything I've read tells me that prayer did far more to help the Jews and others stuck under Nazi control than did any of the secular nations that sat around turning away Jewish refugees. We certainly can recycle and work towards not wasting energy but I have to laugh at the elitists who want to remove elephants from the circus, close Sea World, while promoting abortion, and attempting to prove that GOD doesn't exist. Maybe I do not hold to secular standards of thinking but I do see the handwriting on the wall! And GOD is not happy...

What a ridiculous pile of pap... those "secular countries", while not above criticism or accusations of anti-semitism themselves, liberated the j3ws.

 

[sealybobo]

Let's (try to) have a discussion that avoids the standard partisan finger-pointing that always pollutes (no pun intended) this topic and instead focuses on the logistics & realities we'll deal with if the planet is actually warming.

So, for the purposes of this thread, let's stipulate to the following:

• The planet is warming, for whatever reason.
• Given the scope and momentum of the warming, it's going to continue warming, as we squabble, and we need to look at how that affects our lives
• We need to look ahead at how the changes can either be mitigated OR how to take advantage of them

So my first question is this: What positives could come from this change? I'm wondering about areas of the planet that might un-freeze and allow for more crops, for example.

Any constructive questions or ideas on how we could deal with this in a positive way?
.

Ask texas

Helpful, thanks.
.

We are screwed

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