A morning to remember why

[Intense]

I 100% support our young troops.

But I am100% against both wars.

Being a soldier is an honorable profession.

But it's our politicians that put them in ridiculous no-win situations.

btw I am a Vietnam vet.

It is hard getting caught up in the middle. It is stupid hostile acts that are more a part of the equation though. The Gandhi approach is the high road Sunni.

 

[Claudette]

Why do we "celebreate" this day? EVERY YEAR? We celebrate our defeat? Our lowest point since Pearl Harbor?

We're in 2 wars, thousands dead. Yet what do we have to show? Freedom is stripped away for the fallacy of "safety".

Remember where you were, and remember the lives lost. But don't celebrate.........

I mourn the loss of almost 3,000 people on that date. Folks who got up, went to work and died for no good reason.

We had plenty of heroes that day. Some who were payed to be heroes and some who were just everyday average Americans.

These folks and their actions on that day are well worth celebrating.

 

[The Gadfly]

Cheney?
what does DC have to do with the brave men and women who have given it all? DC served this country the way he thought best
WRY what have you done?

Umm I was drafted, could not afford the college deferrments and did not have the pull to get in the National Guard.
I was in Tech School but it did not count like college.

I remember some of those Draftees.

During WWII most volunteered. Draftees were something of an oddity. During Vietnam it seems most were drafted.

Mud,
Believe it or not, it's actually the reverse. The troops who fought WW II were about two-thirds draftees, primarily because the WW II draft was had fewer exemptions and deferments; pretty much, any man not physically disqualified for service was drafted. The Vietnam situation was different; early on married men were exempt, for example; there were more deferments, AND, because it was not a declared war, anyone classified 1-Y (physically qualified only in time of war) were for all practical purposes, exempt. Depending on a local quota, anyone with a lottery number above 150 typically was not drafted. The resulting army was about one third draftee, two thirds voluntarily enlisted. Of that one-third about 25% actually were deployed to Vietnam. Of course that still put a lot of draftees in infantry billets, but by no means were they the majority (that is reflected in the casualty statistics).

The typical Vietnam soldier was around 22 (not 19, as often claimed), as opposed to age 26 for his WW II counterpart. Contrary to myth, he was mostly White, middle class, and more likely voluntarily enlisted. (Blacks , according to casualty statistics were slightly under-represented compared to their percentage of the overall population at the time, but only by about 1/2 of 1%. Middle class Whites are somewhat over-represented , as they were more likely to be serving in pilot or infantry officer billets which had a higher casualty rate; they were usually a bit older as well,Because off men drafted, or enlisted after their student deferments ran out, he was more likely to have some college education or be a college graduate, than his WW II counterpart. hence the higher overall average age. Just a few facts, to set the record straight.

Let me add that while some draftees had a poor attitude, they were a distinct minority; the majority I saw served as bravely, and with as much dedication and honor, as their volunteer counterparts. I must sadly say that in some commands, draftees WERE treated poorly by some officers and enlisted professionals who regarded them as slackers and half trained, fit only for cannon fodder. THAT, where it occurred, was a shameful failure of leadership which I, as an officer, found disgraceful and disgusting wherever I saw it. It does not become an officer to so treat men under his command, or allow others to do so.

 

[JRK]

Umm I was drafted, could not afford the college deferrments and did not have the pull to get in the National Guard.
I was in Tech School but it did not count like college.

I remember some of those Draftees.

During WWII most volunteered. Draftees were something of an oddity. During Vietnam it seems most were drafted.

Mud,
Believe it or not, it's actually the reverse. The troops who fought WW II were about two-thirds draftees, primarily because the WW II draft was had fewer exemptions and deferments; pretty much, any man not physically disqualified for service was drafted. The Vietnam situation was different; early on married men were exempt, for example; there were more deferments, AND, because it was not a declared war, anyone classified 1-Y (physically qualified only in time of war) were for all practical purposes, exempt. Depending on a local quota, anyone with a lottery number above 150 typically was not drafted. The resulting army was about one third draftee, two thirds voluntarily enlisted. Of that one-third about 25% actually were deployed to Vietnam. Of course that still put a lot of draftees in infantry billets, but by no means were they the majority (that is reflected in the casualty statistics).

The typical Vietnam soldier was around 22 (not 19, as often claimed), as opposed to age 26 for his WW II counterpart. Contrary to myth, he was mostly White, middle class, and more likely voluntarily enlisted. (Blacks , according to casualty statistics were slightly under-represented compared to their percentage of the overall population at the time, but only by about 1/2 of 1%. Middle class Whites are somewhat over-represented , as they were more likely to be serving in pilot or infantry officer billets which had a higher casualty rate; they were usually a bit older as well,Because off men drafted, or enlisted after their student deferments ran out, he was more likely to have some college education or be a college graduate, than his WW II counterpart. hence the higher overall average age. Just a few facts, to set the record straight.

Let me add that while some draftees had a poor attitude, they were a distinct minority; the majority I saw served as bravely, and with as much dedication and honor, as their volunteer counterparts. I must sadly say that in some commands, draftees WERE treated poorly by some officers and enlisted professionals who regarded them as slackers and half trained, fit only for cannon fodder. THAT, where it occurred, was a shameful failure of leadership which I, as an officer, found disgraceful and disgusting wherever I saw it. It does not become an officer to so treat men under his command, or allow others to do so.

That was s un spun as well as so real, It was like drinking water from a mountain stream that had never seen people
really
It is so refreshing to hear the real deal. Thank you for your service

 

[mudwhistle]

Umm I was drafted, could not afford the college deferrments and did not have the pull to get in the National Guard.
I was in Tech School but it did not count like college.

I remember some of those Draftees.

During WWII most volunteered. Draftees were something of an oddity. During Vietnam it seems most were drafted.

Mud,
Believe it or not, it's actually the reverse. The troops who fought WW II were about two-thirds draftees, primarily because the WW II draft was had fewer exemptions and deferments; pretty much, any man not physically disqualified for service was drafted. The Vietnam situation was different; early on married men were exempt, for example; there were more deferments, AND, because it was not a declared war, anyone classified 1-Y (physically qualified only in time of war) were for all practical purposes, exempt. Depending on a local quota, anyone with a lottery number above 150 typically was not drafted. The resulting army was about one third draftee, two thirds voluntarily enlisted. Of that one-third about 25% actually were deployed to Vietnam. Of course that still put a lot of draftees in infantry billets, but by no means were they the majority (that is reflected in the casualty statistics).

The typical Vietnam soldier was around 22 (not 19, as often claimed), as opposed to age 26 for his WW II counterpart. Contrary to myth, he was mostly White, middle class, and more likely voluntarily enlisted. (Blacks , according to casualty statistics were slightly under-represented compared to their percentage of the overall population at the time, but only by about 1/2 of 1%. Middle class Whites are somewhat over-represented , as they were more likely to be serving in pilot or infantry officer billets which had a higher casualty rate; they were usually a bit older as well,Because off men drafted, or enlisted after their student deferments ran out, he was more likely to have some college education or be a college graduate, than his WW II counterpart. hence the higher overall average age. Just a few facts, to set the record straight.

Let me add that while some draftees had a poor attitude, they were a distinct minority; the majority I saw served as bravely, and with as much dedication and honor, as their volunteer counterparts. I must sadly say that in some commands, draftees WERE treated poorly by some officers and enlisted professionals who regarded them as slackers and half trained, fit only for cannon fodder. THAT, where it occurred, was a shameful failure of leadership which I, as an officer, found disgraceful and disgusting wherever I saw it. It does not become an officer to so treat men under his command, or allow others to do so.

When I first joined the draftees were usually good at their jobs but then when they got drunk they showed their anger at being drafted. Also the term "Lifer" became common and eventually became somthing to snear at.

I wasn't drafted but I received a fair share of mistreatment from officers and NCOs till I started making rank myself. It goes with the territory. Somebody shit on them so they shit on everyone beneath them.

 

[AmericanFirst]

We are at war because it serves the military industrial complex

Bullshit propaganda.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Why do we "celebreate" this day? EVERY YEAR? We celebrate our defeat? Our lowest point since Pearl Harbor?

We're in 2 wars, thousands dead. Yet what do we have to show? Freedom is stripped away for the fallacy of "safety".

Remember where you were, and remember the lives lost. But don't celebrate.........

We do not celebrate. We hold ceremonies to remember. Only idiot lefties say we celebrate. But then there are some lefties who celebrate 9-11 because they hate America. Idiots.

 

[Sunni Man]

We are at war because it serves the military industrial complex

Bullshit propaganda.

Make no mistake about it.

Waging war is a profitable business.

That's why we are involved in conflicts constantly all over the world.

 

[AmericanFirst]

We are at war because it serves the military industrial complex

Bullshit propaganda.

Make no mistake about it.

Waging war is a profitable business.

That's why we are involved in conflicts constantly all over the world.

Bullshit, we are at war because some cowardly satan worshipers attacked us on 9-11-2011. The lies from some idiots are ridiculous.

 

[JRK]

We are at war because it serves the military industrial complex

Bullshit propaganda.

Make no mistake about it.

Waging war is a profitable business.

That's why we are involved in conflicts constantly all over the world.

Sunni we at are war because people were killed starting in 1993 and it ended on 9-11-2001
We used "police" style defense until 9-11

GWB stated that very night "we will not care if you are the terrorist or you harbor the same" not his exact quote
Saddam was told 5 nights later to straighten up or else on national TV in front of both houses
he choose or else