A moral quagmire

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Moi, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    I'm not trying to be mean, but I just don't think we should be sending them aid money. I could be persuaded if it were proven that they gave us millions of dollars in aid during any of the disasters befalling this country: hurricanes, earthquakes, Sept. 11th, etc. Or, if they'd paid back all the money we spent on the hostage rescue/negotiations in the 1980's or other actions we've had to take against them.

    Otherwise, I really don't care to send my money to them; I'd prefer to give to anyone of our American needy, say, the Appalachian or native American funds.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Iran
     
  2. Johnney
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    Johnney Senior Member

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    That is true. we need to look in our own backyard first before extending a helping hand to others. there is no reason to be sending monies over seas to help with the homelss/ starving while we have the same thing here.
     
  3. nbdysfu
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    nbdysfu Member

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    qoute:
    ______________________________
    A senior administration official said it was too early to say what form the aid might take. The Red Cross, the Iranian Red Crescent Society and the United Nations (news - web sites) are assessing damage, and the U.S. assistance will reflect what those organizations and what Tehran say Iran needs, the official said.
    ...
    Last year, United States used the United Nations to channel $300,000 in humanitarian aid to Iran after a magnitude 6.1 million quake killed 245 people in the northwestern part of the country.
    _____________________________ _________________

    5,000 people died and 35,000 were injured in the quake, Moi.

    So if we took the figures from the previous incident to figure out how much the US would contribute, it would be about six million by the number of caualties. Since the scale of the earth quake was much larger, there was probably also more damage to infrastructure and buildings with codes that are in no way up to california standards. If we were to additionally chip in in these areas, the figure most likely increases exponentially.

    Likewise the cost to Iran is itself exponentially larger and such a disaster will not be easily forgotten. The figures are almost on par with the figures in the invasion of Iraq. Scenario one is the Iranian mullahs blame the scale of the disaster on the US, saying we are taking the world's focus away from Iran and putting it all on our 'blighted' effort to 'conquer' Iraq. Scenario two, humanitarian intervention on the part of the u.s., on the part of the american red-cross, especially in the shiite-iraqi exile portion of southern Iran where the quake happened, could do nothing but good. It might even get us some more brownie points from the people.
     
  4. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    I don't think we should spend 300 cents on these people. And, I don't care about brownie points either. I care that people in my own country are in need of aid- I'd rather be working my fingers to the bone earning tax dollars for them, rather than Iranians.

    If I could tell Pres. Bush what to do, I'd tell him to have Jordan and Saudi Arabia "funnel" some money to them!
     
  5. nbdysfu
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    nbdysfu Member

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    Originally posted by Moi
    I care that people in my own country are in need of aid- I'd rather be working my fingers to the bone earning tax dollars for them, rather than Iranians.
    ____________________ _______________________
    I know, I'm just a sap who thinks that the american s.o.living needs to be shared in order to preserve our way of life. There are physical limits on how far a bubble can rise above the surface before it bursts.

    Originally posted by Moi
    If I could tell Pres. Bush what to do, I'd tell him to have Jordan and Saudi Arabia "funnel" some money to them!
    ___________________ _______________________
    Perhaps the IGC?
     
  6. nbdysfu
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    nbdysfu Member

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    More than 20,000 killed as huge quake devastates Iranian city
    Fri Dec 26, 4:17 PM ET



    BAM, Iran (AFP) - More than 20,000 people were killed when a massive earthquake devastated Iran's historic southeastern fort city of Bam and its surrounding district, a source in the provincial governor's office said.

    The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, added that 50,000 others were injured.


    Earlier, the governor of Kerman province, in which Bam is located, put the toll at between 5,000 and 6,000, while state television had spoken of 30,000 injured.


    The tremor, which struck before dawn as most of the area's residents were asleep, was met with a swift response from the international community pledging immediate and long-term aid.


    Bam is built almost entirely of mud brick and is ill-equipped to withstand a big temblor, an AFP correspondent said.


    The city had a population of 90,000 people, with the district home to some 200,000 residents.


    Bereaved residents wandered the streets of Bam pleading for the authorities to speed up rescue efforts.


    The city's two hospitals were destroyed in the earthquake, and while field hospitals were set up, they were overwhelmed by the magnitude of casualties.


    "Seventeen of my relatives are buried under the ruins of my home, they've got to get a move on or all of them will die," said one resident, who gave his name only as Ali, as he attempted to shift the rubble with a spade.


    "Why is help so slow in coming?" asked another survivor. "If we were in the West, all resources would have been mobilised.


    Kerman Governor Mohammad Ali Karimi said: "One thing is sure: the historic quarter of Bam has been completely destroyed and many of our countrymen are underneath the ruins. The situation is very worrying."


    Those concerns became more urgent as night fell and temperatures dropped.


    Interior Minister Abdolvahed Mussavi-Lari said the top "priority is to get help to the injured who are under the rubble. It is very cold in the region, and we are very concerned" for them.


    "Our second priority is to get the wounded to hospitals in the region," the minister said, adding that five military aircraft were shuttling between Bam and Kerman.


    Iran's supreme leader Ali Khamenei conveyed his "heartfelt condolences to the noble Iranian nation and the bereaved families of the victims," state news agency IRNA reported.


    "I pray to God for the fast recovery of the injured people and call the executive bodies to take immediate action in rendering aid to the needy people," he said.


    President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites) declared the earthquake a "national disaster which requires collective collaboration and cooperation of all executive and military organizations to mobilize all their facilities to help the victims."





    More than 90 percent of the old city, one of the wonders of Iran's cultural heritage, was destroyed. Besides the flattened homes, the 2,000-year-old citadel, once the largest mud-brick structure in the world, was gone forever.

    Around 4,000 people have been sent to hospital in the provincial capital, Kerman, some 175 kilometres (110 miles) to the northwest, said Assadollah Iranmanesh, a member of Karimi's staff.

    State television said another 170 people had been airlifted to Tehran for treatment and that a similar number had been sent to the southwestern city of Shiraz.

    A three-day period of mourning was declared, as authorities broadcast urgent appeals for blood donations, blankets, food and clothes.

    Hundreds of people crowded into Tehran hospitals to give blood.

    Iran also quickly appealed for international aid.

    "We need sniffer dogs and detection equipment, blankets, medicines, food, but also prefabricated houses because winter is coming very quickly," an interior ministry statement said.

    The United Nations (news - web sites) and the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, together with European states, Middle Eastern countries and the United States, responded to the call for urgent aid.

    UN Secretary General Kofi Annan (news - web sites)'s office said the world body had granted an immediate emergency grant of 90,000 dollars for Iran.

    For its part, the Red Cross is preparing an appeal for about 10 million Swiss francs (6.4 million euros, eight million dollars), a spokesman in Geneva said.

    Roy Probert said the appeal would cover emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and possibly field hospitals.

    He added that Red Cross societies in Europe were already "queuing up" with offers of help.

    And the foreign ministry in Israel, which Iran considers to be one of its greatest enemies, announced that Israeli non-governmental organizations are "looking into offering their help."

    The quake hit at 5:28 am (0158 GMT), some 1,000 kilometres (620 miles) southeast of the capital, with a magnitude of 6.3 degrees on the Richter scale, IRNA quoted the Tehran University Geophysics Centre as saying.

    Several aftershocks were recorded, the most violent occurring at 6:36 am (0306 GMT), IRNA said.

    The Strasbourg Observatory in France put the quake at 6.6 and said the temblor was the most powerful in the region since 1998.

    The US Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center in Virginia measured it at 6.7.

    Telephone and radio communications with the city, as well as the towns of Giroft and Kohnuj, were cut off following the quake.

    The government has set up a crisis centre in Kerman, dispatching five helicopters and two huge C-130 transport planes to the quake site, IRNA quoted deputy provincial governor Hossein Marachi as saying.

    Earthquakes (news - web sites) are very frequent in Iran. Since 1991 nearly 1,000 of them have claimed some 17,600 lives and injured 53,000 people, according to official figures.

    On August 27, a tremor of 5.7 jolted the Bam area, but caused no casualties.

    The last major quake came in June 2002, when a tremor of 6.3 hit northwestern Iran, killing 235 people and injuring more than 1,300.
    _______________________________

    Every major nation in the world is pledging aid. Even Japan and Israel.
     
  7. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    Again, I understand the devastation that the quake caused. Let the rest of the world play doctor this time, I say. We are fighting a war against terror and have people in our country unemployed, ininsured, uneducated and unprotected. Why should we waste money helping people who either don't do for us or would actually hurt us when we have just as many - even if you use the 90,000 figure - people here in this country who need financial assistance????????
     
  8. jon_forward
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    jon_forward Active Member

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    until proven otherwise, those people are in a bad way and need help. The USA has and always will be one of if not the first to help. what I am saying is that these folks are humans not terrorist and why shouldnt they see firsthand what being an AMERICAN is all about. surewe have our problems here, hell I am almost homeless myself and very well may be on the streets but I dont have a house on top of me. I have a hospital I can go to. I know where my family is. and I have something to eat. our country will never be the perfect one but compared to the other choices where would you want to live?
     
  9. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I agree with you Jon. It's important that the US respond in times of need. We engender more goodwill through these gestures than through any other type of 'aid' given. Sort of like the GI's do, after the fighting giving out treats to the children. Bombs may stop the fighting temporarily, but it is goodwill that will keep the peace if possible.
     
  10. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    Although I agree with everything you have both said about being humanitarian and engendering good will, I'd like a little good will myself. Why is it that I have to work 18 hours a day just to make a living for myself and my family? Why is it that almost half of my income is supporting other people while I cannot use that money to help myself and my future? I'm quite sure ya'll are sick of me saying it but I've been working and paying taxes for over 20 years and I'm only 36 years old. I don't take vacations nor do I drive an expensive car, wear designer duds or eat out every night. I'm not claiming that I am poverty stricken, but let's face it, I've had to dip into my retirement just to keep up with my mortgage payments, insurance and medical costs, food on the table, etc. And yet I don't get anything from the government nor did I when I worked two jobs to get through college and graduate school (without student loans or aid).

    When my son applies to college and when I am too old to work, or in the extreme case, if I'm unemployed for a long period of time, where is my help taking care of my family going to come from?

    The Iranians and the good will that we've built up around the world? Will the french or the africans send food? I don't think so. I'm honestly NOT being sarcastic. I just want to know when will it be the average american's turn to benefit from his/her hard work. Why is it my responsibility to people in other nations? They had an earthquake and for that I'm sorry. But the fact remains that the money being diverted there came from my hard work. I don't believe that I should be completely mute in its distribution.
     

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