A Moment Of Truth

[MikeK]

I think many Americans have learned with the Vietnam War that to protest a war or military action they do not agree wth does not mean they have to protest the military. At least I hope we've learned that.

Sorry to disappoint you but understanding that sympathy, not gratitude, is the appropriate disposition toward those who were wrongfully and unfortunately subjected to the miseries of service in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not expressing gratitude for being misused is not protesting the military. It is acknowledging reality and refusing to obscure responsibility for those wholly unnecessary military debacles.

I was a Vietnam protester. The protest was not directed at the military but at the so-called "war" which was not a war. Our troops were wrongfully deployed in Vietnam and in these other government misfeasances in the Middle East. How is gratitude an appropriate response for being so tragically misused? Saying thank you makes it all sound okay.

Vietnam was not the Normandy Invasion.

Iraq was not Iwo Jima.

Afghanistan is not The Bulge.

Try to understand the difference.

 

[JakeStarkey]

MikeK's entitled to his opinion, mistaken as it may be.

 

[SFC Ollie]

i think many americans have learned with the vietnam war that to protest a war or military action they do not agree wth does not mean they have to protest the military. At least i hope we've learned that.

sorry to disappoint you but understanding that sympathy, not gratitude, is the appropriate disposition toward those who were wrongfully and unfortunately subjected to the miseries of service in vietnam, iraq and afghanistan. Not expressing gratitude for being misused is not protesting the military. It is acknowledging reality and refusing to obscure responsibility for those wholly unnecessary military debacles.

I was a vietnam protester. The protest was not directed at the military but at the so-called "war" which was not a war. Our troops were wrongfully deployed in vietnam and in these other government misfeasances in the middle east. How is gratitude an appropriate response for being so tragically misused? Saying thank you makes it all sound okay.

Vietnam was not the normandy invasion.

Iraq was not iwo jima.

Afghanistan is not the bulge.

Try to understand the difference.

fuck you............

 

[JakeStarkey]

Come on, Ollie, tell us how you really feel.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Come on, Ollie, tell us how you really feel.

Assholes are assholes. not much you can do about it........

 

[MikeK]

No, he was a one-termer who hated his time in service and still has gay fantasies about Navy Chiefs.

You're right. I was a "one termer," meaning I fulfilled my military obligation and I got out. And I did indeed hate military service, which many will agree affirms my psychological stability. But I paid my dues and was Honorably discharged.

And since you choose to sink to the level of homosexual insults you should know the only time I was hit on by a homosexual during my entire four years in the Marine Corps it was by a Navy Chief (medical corpsman) in the Naval Hospital at Camp LeJeune. So maybe there's a special reason why you chose to be a "lifer."

Do you like living among a lot of men under close conditions? I didn't.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well, you wipe em, but they will do it again. What can I say? Thanks for your service, Ollie.

 

[MikeK]

"While it would be easy for me to say thanks to those who were forced or suckered into suffering and, in all too many cases, dying in the jungles of Vietnam, what exactly would I be thanking them for? Should I be grateful for their suffering and death?"

Absolutely, unless you are a total asshole unable to comprehend that Americans fight for Country; not any particular politics. Politics is a civilian vice as is deciding when and where the military will fight.

Drafted or not nobody can force anyone to fight who is unwilling to do so. If you refused to fight in Vietnam you might spend time in LBJ (Long Binh Jail) where you would have the luxury of a roof over your head and three hot meals and cot every day.

I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1956 because of a genuine sense of patriotic obligation -- not for an enlistment bonus. At the time I truly believed the only reason I would be deployed under combat conditions would be in defense of the U.S. I believed that for my entire four year enlistment.

I consider myself fortunate for being separated in 1960 and discharged in 1962. Because if I had been in during the Vietham debacle I would have done what I was required to do, mainly to avoid the brig and a DD, but I would have been one pissed off trooper because I was intelligent enough to understand there was absolutely no good reason for me to be there risking my ass.

I participated in the anti-Vietnam protest movement along with quite a few highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans, every one of whom would tell the flag-wavers to shut their ignorant mouths because they don't know what they're talking about. Our presence and actions in Vietnam served no constructive purpose and was in no way defensive of the U.S. And if I had been so unfortunate as to be caught up in it I certainly wouldn't be expecting anyone to thank me for my misfortune.

And the same thing can be said about Iraq and Afghanistan. To say thanks for being there, and/or to have been wounded in those debacles, tends to obscure the reality of it all, projecting that inappropriate gratitude onto the corrupt, incompetent government officials who are responsible for it. It takes a real asshole to do that -- but the trick lies in understanding that you are an asshole, and why.

You might as well thank George W. Bush & Company for getting us into it.

 

[Trajan]

get over yourself dude.....

 

[MikeK]

MikeK's entitled to his opinion, mistaken as it may be.

And you are entitled to yours.

 

[MikeK]

get over yourself dude.....

If that's the best you are capable of, why even waste the time and space?

 

[MikeK]

To editec and MikeK: Just because you disagree with what politicians did in war does not give either of you any right, in decent society, to be disrespectful of men who did their jobs the best they knew how.

And, what exactly delineates what views are about Vietnam with views about Iraq and A-stan which would justify such lack of respect for any veteran of those wars?

There are other things I would like to say, but when it gets so low, I am remarkably restrained.

Does saying all that make you feel real patriotic? If so, talk is cheap. One way to demonstrate your patriotism is to sign up for a four year hitch in the Marine Corps. Then you can talk that nonsense and not sound like an inane little flag-waving gasbag.

Then you'll have a right to tell me what my rights are. Because as of now, you don't.

 

[MikeK]

were you a contentious objector?

No. I was not a conscientious objector. Unlike you I did my time in the military.

Afterward I joined the Vietnam protest movement -- which is not the same as conscientious objection.

 

[JakeStarkey]

MikeK, many of us served many years in the Armed Forces and have disagreed with administrations on many things. I despised that Nixon would not end the war, or Reagan and Iran-Contra (I flipped over that), or Bush the Younger's stupidities in the Middle East. But I wore the uniform, I served in times good and bad, and I honor all of us, including you, who did it that hard way. That is what service is about. This is about our comrades not our commanders.

 

[Trajan]

get over yourself dude.....

If that's the best you are capable of, why even waste the time and space?

get over yourself dude...

 

[Trajan]

were you a contentious objector?

No. I was not a conscientious objector. Unlike you I did my time in the military.

Afterward I joined the Vietnam protest movement -- which is not the same as conscientious objection.

a) I served...in 2 branches and will match my retirement points up against yours any day dopey...

b)I didn't ask YOU....get over yourself.

 

[MikeK]

No. I was not a conscientious objector. Unlike you I did my time in the military.

Afterward I joined the Vietnam protest movement -- which is not the same as conscientious objection.

a) I served...in 2 branches and will match my retirement points up against yours any day dopey...

You served in two branches? Was that motivated by an overwhelming sense of patriotism or because you couldn't make it as a civilian and now you'd like to be thanked for it?

 

[Si modo]

a) I served...in 2 branches and will match my retirement points up against yours any day dopey...

You served in two branches? Was that motivated by an overwhelming sense of patriotism or because you couldn't make it as a civilian and now you'd like to be thanked for it?

I'm sorry you are so damaged.

 

[9thIDdoc]

--------------------
"I consider myself fortunate for being separated in 1960 and discharged in 1962."

I also consider myself fortunate that you were separated in '60. We were in need of intelligent morally mature men. Not wimps willing to use any and every lame-ass excuse to avoid their duty and thereby getting real soldiers maimed or killed. Thank you for serving elsewhere.
"Because if I had been in during the Vietham debacle I would have done what I was required to do,..."
What? Run to Canada?

"I participated in the anti-Vietnam protest movement along with quite a few highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans, every one of whom would tell the flag-wavers to shut their ignorant mouths because they don't know what they're talking about."

Then by the same token as a decorated disabled Vietnam veteran I'm telling you to shut your ignorant mouth because you don't know what you talking about
I was stationed in San Francisco '68-'69 and got to know the anti-war movement well. Mostly they were young people looking for a party and some were sincere in what they believed. However (as proved by Congressional investigation) many of your "...highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans..." were simply lying scum with vivid imaginations

 

[PratchettFan]

You Nam vets will understand wht this guy is thinking......


Thank You For Your Service (A Moment of Truth) - YouTube

Yeah. Not a lot of brass bands met us when we stepped off the plane. To be honest though, I'm just glad the guys now get the attention they deserve. Different times, brother.