A Middle-Age Child's Nutty Demand

[edthecynic]

So, are you telling me that special interest have started spending money to influence policy? I'm shocked and appalled!

I'm simply informing you of the provenance...

...being informed means that you understand that you are subscribing to a package, not one issue.

As in..."Anita Dunn, the White House Communications Director, admitted that one of favorite political Philosophers, one that she “turns to the most”, is Mao Tse-Tung, the demonic communist dictator responsible for the starvation, torture, and murder of 70 million Chinese."
Anita Dunn Favorite Philosopher Mao Tse-Tung | OrthodoxNet.com Blog

You have no "line item veto" in politics...

I always love it when CON$erviNutzis take 4 words and turn them into a 40+ word sentence. You know if the full quote in context said what the GOP scripted lie says the lying scum would have used the whole quote unedited.

And then the third lesson and tip actually come from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Zedong and Mother Teresa -- not often coupled with each together, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point, which is, you're going to make choices. You're going to challenge. You're going to say, "Why not?" You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here's the deal: These are your choices. They are no one else's.

So, she only turns to Mao, and Mother Teresa, to make ONE (1) simple point!!!!!!!!!

This just another example of the fact that CON$erviNutzis are the lowest form of premeditated lying scum!

 

[PoliticalChic]

So, are you telling me that special interest have started spending money to influence policy? I'm shocked and appalled!

I'm simply informing you of the provenance...

...being informed means that you understand that you are subscribing to a package, not one issue.

As in..."Anita Dunn, the White House Communications Director, admitted that one of favorite political Philosophers, one that she “turns to the most”, is Mao Tse-Tung, the demonic communist dictator responsible for the starvation, torture, and murder of 70 million Chinese."
Anita Dunn Favorite Philosopher Mao Tse-Tung | OrthodoxNet.com Blog

You have no "line item veto" in politics...

I always love it when CON$erviNutzis take 4 words and turn them into a 40+ word sentence. You know if the full quote in context said what the GOP scripted lie says the lying scum would have used the whole quote unedited.

And then the third lesson and tip actually come from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Zedong and Mother Teresa -- not often coupled with each together, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point, which is, you're going to make choices. You're going to challenge. You're going to say, "Why not?" You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here's the deal: These are your choices. They are no one else's.

So, she only turns to Mao, and Mother Teresa, to make ONE (1) simple point!!!!!!!!!

This just another example of the fact that CON$erviNutzis are the lowest form of premeditated lying scum!

Only a Liberal would fail to realize the depth of depravity needed to claim Mao as one's fav 'political philosopher.'

To call you ignorant would be an insult to the ignorant folks....you lack any moral compass in addition to total lacunae in the area of history.

1. The Red Banner Youth Brigade

The Kwan family met the Youth Brigade in their living room, which had shrunk to the size of a prison cell due to the number of shouting youth surrounding the family. They gazed at the youth in bewilderment unable to understand the evil that they had done.

“Do you repent? Do you confess to clinging to the old values?”
“Confess and seek reeducation and we will spare you!”
“You are guilty of old thought, old culture, old values…”
“You have built a lackey’s empire on the backs of the people!”
Kwan and his wife, along with their twelve-year-old son were bound and defenseless.
“You are part of the old…”

The tall leader of the cadre engages in a furious dialectic, spittle flying from his mouth.
“You are part of the old! Do you repent?”
With every line he spoke, he swung the black baton, heavy as a cricket bat.
“You will reform your decadent ways!”
“The old ways are a threat to the collective good of the people!”
“You will die if you retain your old beliefs!”
“Repent! Reject the old! Admit you have been seduced by unbeneficial and decadent thought!”

It continued for endless minutes- until the blows the student rained down stole the life from the family. The iron-tipped baton left bloody forms at his feet as he recited the catechism the students thirstily sought to hear.

From the novel “The Stone Monkey,” by Jeffery Deaver


2. Through 1966, secondary schools and colleges closed in China. Students -- many from the age of nine through eighteen -- followed Maoist directives to destroy things of the past that they believed should be no part of the new China: old customs, old habits, old culture and old thinking -- the "four olds." In a state of euphoria and with support from the government and army, the students went about China's cities and villages, wrecking old buildings, old temples and old art objects.

To make a new and wonderful China, the Red Guards attacked as insufficiently revolutionary their parents, teachers, school administrators and everyone they could find as targets, including "intellectuals" and "capitalist roaders" within the Communist Party.
Filled with righteousness, the power of their numbers, and support from Mao, the campaigns for revolutionary change became violent. People seen as evil were beaten to death. Thousands of people died, including many who had committed suicide.
China from Mao to Deng

3. HONG KONG — The worst catastrophe in China’s history, and one of the worst anywhere, was the Great Famine of 1958 to 1962, and to this day the ruling Communist Party has not fully acknowledged the degree to which it was a direct result of the forcible herding of villagers into communes under the “Great Leap Forward” that Mao Zedong launched in 1958.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/opinion/16iht-eddikotter16.html


People like Anita Dunn know about Mao....and they know how stupid you are.
Sometimes I find your ignorance amusing....but not today.
You are lacking in any quality that might be considered human.

Go away.

 

[Sweet Willy]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

 

[Katzndogz]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

At this point there are only two ways to end the decay. One is outright civil war. The other is for the nation to divide peacefully and each side form the kind of nation with the kind of values that it wants to live with.

Which would you prefer?

I'll take either side.

 

[edthecynic]

I'm simply informing you of the provenance...

...being informed means that you understand that you are subscribing to a package, not one issue.

As in..."Anita Dunn, the White House Communications Director, admitted that one of favorite political Philosophers, one that she “turns to the most”, is Mao Tse-Tung, the demonic communist dictator responsible for the starvation, torture, and murder of 70 million Chinese."
Anita Dunn Favorite Philosopher Mao Tse-Tung | OrthodoxNet.com Blog

You have no "line item veto" in politics...

I always love it when CON$erviNutzis take 4 words and turn them into a 40+ word sentence. You know if the full quote in context said what the GOP scripted lie says the lying scum would have used the whole quote unedited.

And then the third lesson and tip actually come from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Zedong and Mother Teresa -- not often coupled with each together, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point, which is, you're going to make choices. You're going to challenge. You're going to say, "Why not?" You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here's the deal: These are your choices. They are no one else's.

So, she only turns to Mao, and Mother Teresa, to make ONE (1) simple point!!!!!!!!!

This just another example of the fact that CON$erviNutzis are the lowest form of premeditated lying scum!

Only a Liberal would fail to realize the depth of depravity needed to claim Mao as one's fav 'political philosopher.'

Another example of the complete moral depravity of CON$erviNutzis, when caught lying with a 4 word manufactured out of context quote, CON$ simply keep on lying but using only 2 words taken out of context this time. CON$ are the most shameless lying scum on Earth.

 

[koshergrl]

Sippose that an industry is owned by somebody whose religion makes them think all health care is a sin? (

Ought that industry get a pass on offering government mandated health care insurance?

After all, the owners religious beliefs are violated if he is forced to insure his employees.

At what point does somebody's religious believes trump civil authority, kids?

That is really the question we are asking ourselves.

Uh, yes. If an industry is owned by somebody whose religion makes them think all health care is a sin, you should probably opt to get a job with somebody else, or buy your own.

 

[saveliberty]

I always love it when CON$erviNutzis take 4 words and turn them into a 40+ word sentence. You know if the full quote in context said what the GOP scripted lie says the lying scum would have used the whole quote unedited.

So, she only turns to Mao, and Mother Teresa, to make ONE (1) simple point!!!!!!!!!

This just another example of the fact that CON$erviNutzis are the lowest form of premeditated lying scum!

Only a Liberal would fail to realize the depth of depravity needed to claim Mao as one's fav 'political philosopher.'

Another example of the complete moral depravity of CON$erviNutzis, when caught lying with a 4 word manufactured out of context quote, CON$ simply keep on lying but using only 2 words taken out of context this time. CON$ are the most shameless lying scum on Earth.

Its fair to say you're not a rational player here.

 

[Immanuel]

Why should there be ANY civil authority mandating free contraception is the question you should be asking yourself. It's not like she's demanding free pacemakers. She'd never get those unless there was some copayment by the insured. There's no such thing as a free pacemaker without supplemental insurance. To feminist activists birth control is MUCH more important than a pacemaker. Or insulin, or any other kind of life saving medication. Because this is about women's HEALTH. How it got to be about women's health is really the question. That's the biggest long con in in history.

She isn't asking for free birth control, she is asking for health care plans that They pay premiums for cover their medical needs. Get a clue.

She's asking for the university to provide her with a discount on an insurance policy and then demanding that the policy provide something that the university does not want to provide.

She is more than welcome to pay full price for the policy she wants by going out and buying said policy from any insurance company doing business in the District of Columbia. She does not have the right to demand that Georgetown University provide her with a discount so that she can have all the premarital sex she wants..

Immie

 

[Sweet Willy]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

At this point there are only two ways to end the decay. One is outright civil war. The other is for the nation to divide peacefully and each side form the kind of nation with the kind of values that it wants to live with.

Which would you prefer?

I'll take either side.

How would we divide? Along what lines?

 

[PoliticalChic]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

Not so fast.....

"How's the great contraception mandate battle of 2012 playing out? If you read the Washington Post's news coverage, the issue is supposedly killing Republicans among female voters. But the newest Washington Post/ABC poll tells a different story.

Then, from March 7 to 10--a week into the national media firestorm surrounding Rush Limbaugh's degrading remarks about Georgetown Law student and liberal activist Sandra Fluke--Washington Post/ABC conducted another poll. It found Obama's approval rating at 46 percent, down four points from February, and his disapproval rating at 50 percent, up four points from February.

The Post/ABC poll asked Americans, "Do you think health insurance companies should or should not be required to cover the full cost of birth control for women?" It found that 61 percent of Americans think insurance companies should be required to pay for it. But if "the insurance is provided through a religiously affiliated employer that objects to birth control, however, support for this requirement drops to 49 percent (52 percent of women, 45 percent of men)." (It's worth noting that polls on this issue have varied significantly depending on how the question is asked. When a poll specifies that the "federal government" is the entity requiring employers to pay for birth control coverage, support for the mandate in general is evenly split.)

The bottom line is that it's not clear at all that the fight over the contraception/abortifacient mandate has hurt Republicans."
Obama Fares Worse Among Women after Month-Long Contraception Mandate Battle | The Weekly Standard

 

[saveliberty]

Not fair PoliticalChic, you're using numbers and science.

 

[Sweet Willy]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

Not so fast.....

"How's the great contraception mandate battle of 2012 playing out? If you read the Washington Post's news coverage, the issue is supposedly killing Republicans among female voters. But the newest Washington Post/ABC poll tells a different story.

Then, from March 7 to 10--a week into the national media firestorm surrounding Rush Limbaugh's degrading remarks about Georgetown Law student and liberal activist Sandra Fluke--Washington Post/ABC conducted another poll. It found Obama's approval rating at 46 percent, down four points from February, and his disapproval rating at 50 percent, up four points from February.

The Post/ABC poll asked Americans, "Do you think health insurance companies should or should not be required to cover the full cost of birth control for women?" It found that 61 percent of Americans think insurance companies should be required to pay for it. But if "the insurance is provided through a religiously affiliated employer that objects to birth control, however, support for this requirement drops to 49 percent (52 percent of women, 45 percent of men)." (It's worth noting that polls on this issue have varied significantly depending on how the question is asked. When a poll specifies that the "federal government" is the entity requiring employers to pay for birth control coverage, support for the mandate in general is evenly split.)

The bottom line is that it's not clear at all that the fight over the contraception/abortifacient mandate has hurt Republicans."
Obama Fares Worse Among Women after Month-Long Contraception Mandate Battle | The Weekly Standard

I'm not sure I understand how this relates, completely. I see that there is a split there about whether or not contraception should be provided but contraception isn't really what I was getting at with the above post. I'm talking about sexual habits. The stuff that causes babies. The number of people who support / do not support birth control on an insurance plan doesn't speak to the facts of sexual promiscuity, which is the heart of this matter. We know how many Christians we have in the country and we know what the incidents of teen pregnancy, unwanted pregnancy and abortion are. There is little doubt that Christians have lost control of the issue in a big way. If they have been unable to step up to the plate and show us some results on lowering these rates of sex related cost to society, there is just no kind of authority here to get in the way of the public trying to address the issue, no matter what opinion polls say. The number of sex related incidents are not a matter of opinion. These are black and white facts and in a country that is widely recognized and held as a Christian nation, this a monumental failure of the church to show results in it's own flock.

 

[saveliberty]

The church acknowledges there is sin in the world and victory over sin is fleeting at best. Certainly expanding the knowledge of sex and its availability, while decreasing the voice of morality will not improve a thing. Then again, that wasn't really your intent now, was it?

 

[Sweet Willy]

To parse it down:

If the church can't control teen pregnancy of Christian children, the government is not out of place to try and help. If the church would like to assume the operation and cost of all teen pregnancy and out of wedlock pregnancy care and poverty assistance of the resulting children, then I'd jump up and down and tell the government to butt out. Until then, this is coming out of my pocket and I would rather pay for pills that for pregnancies and the resulting children born to people who didn't want them.

 

[saveliberty]

To parse it down:

If the church can't control teen pregnancy of Christian children, the government is not out of place to try and help. If the church would like to assume the operation and cost of all teen pregnancy and out of wedlock pregnancy care and poverty assistance of the resulting children, then I'd jump up and down and tell the government to butt out. Until then, this is coming out of my pocket and I would rather pay for pills that for pregnancies and the resulting children born to people who didn't want them.

It is not the place of government to tell anyone how to enjoy their Constitutional rights.

 

[edthecynic]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

Not so fast.....

"How's the great contraception mandate battle of 2012 playing out? If you read the Washington Post's news coverage, the issue is supposedly killing Republicans among female voters. But the newest Washington Post/ABC poll tells a different story.

Then, from March 7 to 10--a week into the national media firestorm surrounding Rush Limbaugh's degrading remarks about Georgetown Law student and liberal activist Sandra Fluke--Washington Post/ABC conducted another poll. It found Obama's approval rating at 46 percent, down four points from February, and his disapproval rating at 50 percent, up four points from February.

The Post/ABC poll asked Americans, "Do you think health insurance companies should or should not be required to cover the full cost of birth control for women?" It found that 61 percent of Americans think insurance companies should be required to pay for it. But if "the insurance is provided through a religiously affiliated employer that objects to birth control, however, support for this requirement drops to 49 percent (52 percent of women, 45 percent of men)." (It's worth noting that polls on this issue have varied significantly depending on how the question is asked. When a poll specifies that the "federal government" is the entity requiring employers to pay for birth control coverage, support for the mandate in general is evenly split.)

The bottom line is that it's not clear at all that the fight over the contraception/abortifacient mandate has hurt Republicans."
Obama Fares Worse Among Women after Month-Long Contraception Mandate Battle | The Weekly Standard

Again we see the complete dishonesty of CON$erviNutzis. They lie about Obama faring worse among women after the contraceptive controversy, when the poll cited actually says Obama's approval was unchanged among women voters. What hurt Obama was gas prices, not contraception.

Only the stupidest people on Earth believe anything from any CON$erviNutzi source, especially the Weekly Sub-Standard!

http://www.langerresearch.com/uploads/1135a22012Politics.pdf

WOMEN – One recent focus has been the notion of a movement toward the Democratic Party
among women, on the basis of recent controversies including the debate over Obama
administration policy on insurance coverage of women’s birth control.

This poll shows the possibility of Democratic gains among women, but no measurable effect at
this point. While women are 12 points more apt than men to identify themselves as Democrats,
that essentially matches the long-term norm. Largely because of that partisan gap, Obama’s
approval rating is 9 points higher among women than men, but again this is typical.

Compared with last month, disapproval of Obama’s job performance is up slightly among men,
and there’s no increase in approval among women. And on vote preference vs. Romney, Obama
did better among men and women alike last month, and has lost ground slightly among both
sexes this month. In the latest results Romney has a 12-point lead among men who are registered
voters; among women, it’s Obama +6.

On the latest point of contention, Americans by 61-35 percent say insurance companies should
be required to cover the full cost of birth control for women, including majorities of women and
men alike (65 and 57 percent, respectively). (Young people, in particular, favor such coverage.)
If the insurance is provided through a religiously affiliated employer that objects to birth control,
however, support for this requirement drops to 49 percent (52 percent of women, 45 percent of
men).

More generally, Democrats have a broad 25-point margin over the Republicans as the party
that’s more in tune with women’s issues, 55 percent to 30 percent – a view held essentially equally by men and women alike.

 

[saveliberty]

But...but, women are supposedly fleeing from the Republicans over this. Fail.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The church acknowledges there is sin in the world and victory over sin is fleeting at best. Certainly expanding the knowledge of sex and its availability, while decreasing the voice of morality will not improve a thing. Then again, that wasn't really your intent now, was it?

I don't really have any intent, just an opinion on what is the most economical thing to do here. I don't want to get into personal details here but I can tell you that unwanted pregnancies can be brutal on people. And not just the people who cause the event. When a 16 and 17 year old pair of kids end up pregnant because they lacked access to birth control but at the same time, did not want to abort, let me tell you what happens: Two very unprepared young people with little education and little earning power and little parenting skills end up trying to do something with the odds stack incredibly against them. The mother ends up single with a child she can't support and goes on the public dole. Even if the father tires, he didn't get to go to even tech school so he's not educated enough to earn much of a living and now he has two roofs to try and maintain. The child doesn't get raised right and he ends up being a criminal and yet more cost to society.

Now... I said I didn't want to get too personal, but that's a short version, first hand story from a middle class, Christian, Baptist raised white boy who was an honor roll student and on his way to UNC to be an orthodontist. But something else happened. I am pro life but I sure do support birth control for anyone who is anywhere near realistic about how unwanted pregnancies happen. My sister, who talked this same talk that I hear right here in this place, recently admitted to me that she sat down with her 16 year old son's - girlfriends- mother and had a talk about BC. And the girl is now on it. I am SURE our church has NO IDEA she is on it but the reality is that my sister watched me not only alter the path of my life, but also bring into the world a son, whom I do love very much, but unfortunately is a statisitc, sitting in prison.

Now... you don't HAVE to take my word for it, but I am not operating in theory here.

 

[saveliberty]

The church acknowledges there is sin in the world and victory over sin is fleeting at best. Certainly expanding the knowledge of sex and its availability, while decreasing the voice of morality will not improve a thing. Then again, that wasn't really your intent now, was it?

I don't really have any intent, just an opinion on what is the most economical thing to do here. I don't want to get into personal details here but I can tell you that unwanted pregnancies can be brutal on people. And not just the people who cause the event. When a 16 and 17 year old pair of kids end up pregnant because they lacked access to birth control but at the same time, did not want to abort, let me tell you what happens: Two very unprepared young people with little education and little earning power and little parenting skills end up trying to do something with the odds stack incredibly against them. The mother ends up single with a child she can't support and goes on the public dole. Even if the father tires, he didn't get to go to even tech school so he's not educated enough to earn much of a living and now he has two roofs to try and maintain. The child doesn't get raised right and he ends up being a criminal and yet more cost to society.

Now... I said I didn't want to get too personal, but that's a short version, first hand story from a middle class, Christian, Baptist raised white boy who was an honor roll student and on his way to UNC to be an orthodontist. But something else happened. I am pro life but I sure do support birth control for anyone who is anywhere near realistic about how unwanted pregnancies happen. My sister, who talked this same talk that I hear right here in this place, recently admitted to me that she sat down with her 16 year old son's - girlfriends- mother and had a talk about BC. And the girl is now on it. I am SURE our church has NO IDEA she is on it but the reality is that my sister watched me not only alter the path of my life, but also bring into the world a son, whom I do love very much, but unfortunately is a statisitc, sitting in prison.

Now... you don't HAVE to take my word for it, but I am not operating in theory here.

No, your just full of excuses and generalizations. People have choices and sometimes make poor ones.

 

[gallantwarrior]

OK, so I find it interesting that we don't really get any reasoned responses when asked how we can fix what some see as a moral decay, something generally blamed on society at large. Even though there is no shortage of churches or money or support for Churches, mega churches, giant congregations, international traveling ministries, and on and on and on.... the influence of the church on behavior is nominal. The church hasn't been able to maintain a significant impact on sexual behavior. Even though the overwhelming majority of our population identifies as Christian, we still have these issues of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies, children born into poverty, out of wed lock....

So... my question now is.... if you guys can't even begin to give an answer as to how the church might help improve this situation... if indeed you have given up and think that society is just bad and there is nothing to be done about it... the burning question is:

Why don't you get out of the way of people trying to address the problem?

You've acknowledged that the church is out of influence and you have given up trying to figure a way to control these pregnancies, children born into poverty, etc. Why is that when it is laid it before you and can acknowledge and see that the church has failed on this front, why do you feel like you must now try and make sure that the rest of us fail in trying to manage these problems in society? Anyone?

Not so fast.....

"How's the great contraception mandate battle of 2012 playing out? If you read the Washington Post's news coverage, the issue is supposedly killing Republicans among female voters. But the newest Washington Post/ABC poll tells a different story.

Then, from March 7 to 10--a week into the national media firestorm surrounding Rush Limbaugh's degrading remarks about Georgetown Law student and liberal activist Sandra Fluke--Washington Post/ABC conducted another poll. It found Obama's approval rating at 46 percent, down four points from February, and his disapproval rating at 50 percent, up four points from February.

The Post/ABC poll asked Americans, "Do you think health insurance companies should or should not be required to cover the full cost of birth control for women?" It found that 61 percent of Americans think insurance companies should be required to pay for it. But if "the insurance is provided through a religiously affiliated employer that objects to birth control, however, support for this requirement drops to 49 percent (52 percent of women, 45 percent of men)." (It's worth noting that polls on this issue have varied significantly depending on how the question is asked. When a poll specifies that the "federal government" is the entity requiring employers to pay for birth control coverage, support for the mandate in general is evenly split.)

The bottom line is that it's not clear at all that the fight over the contraception/abortifacient mandate has hurt Republicans."
Obama Fares Worse Among Women after Month-Long Contraception Mandate Battle | The Weekly Standard

I'm not sure I understand how this relates, completely. I see that there is a split there about whether or not contraception should be provided but contraception isn't really what I was getting at with the above post. I'm talking about sexual habits. The stuff that causes babies. The number of people who support / do not support birth control on an insurance plan doesn't speak to the facts of sexual promiscuity, which is the heart of this matter. We know how many Christians we have in the country and we know what the incidents of teen pregnancy, unwanted pregnancy and abortion are. There is little doubt that Christians have lost control of the issue in a big way. If they have been unable to step up to the plate and show us some results on lowering these rates of sex related cost to society, there is just no kind of authority here to get in the way of the public trying to address the issue, no matter what opinion polls say. The number of sex related incidents are not a matter of opinion. These are black and white facts and in a country that is widely recognized and held as a Christian nation, this a monumental failure of the church to show results in it's own flock.

Try this: Once upon a time, the family was an important social unit. Divorce was very uncommon, an admission of failure for both parties. Divorce used to require a grounds be provided before being granted. Now, we have "no-fault" divorce where one or both parties appear before a magistrate and declare they just cannot deal with being married, no specific reason needed. What once occurred because of some shameful behavior now is "no fault".
Once upon a time, becoming pregnant out-of-wedlock was shameful. The family was shamed, the girl was shamed, in some instances, even the boy was shamed. If the sperm donor could not be persuaded to "do the right thing", the young lady in question was shipped off to the a suitable relative until relieved of her shameful burden, often given up for adoption or taken in by another relative.
Much of the behavior presented as entertainment, in every public venue, used to be shameful. Nudity, foul language, criminal activity, brutality, sexuality, etc. were all considered unacceptable for decent people.
Of course, we do have a choice. We can turn off, tune out, and maybe play Monopoly with our children, eat dinner around the family table. But for various reasons, excuses, it is far easier not to do those things. We should be ashamed that we have allowed ourselves to be dragged down into the cesspool our society has become. That will not happen until we pull our collective heads out of our collective butts and demand decency, live decency. We need to reclaim shame.