A Matter of Faith...

[Bullypulpit]

<blockquote>" There are five things which have a twofold result in this life. What five?...[Knowledge based on] faith, likes, tradition, reflection on form and delight in views. Even if I know something on the basis of faith, that might be empty, hollow and confused, while what I do not know on the basis of faith may be factual, true and not otherwise. It is not proper for an intelligent being, safeguarding the truth, to come categorically to the the conclusion that such alone is true and whatever else is false."</blockquote>

It must be noted tht the single chief determinant in religious belief is being raised within a particular religious tradition. While Christians fervently believe that they and they alone have a place in heaven, Muslims believe just as fervently that only they have a place in heaven. Both cannot be right, but they can both be wrong. But both accept on faith that their view is the only correct view.

Faith can, ultimately, blind us to such an extent that no evidence contrary to that article of faith will be accepted, and such dagmatic adherence to faith can lead us into dark places unfit for human life. The philosopher Karl Popper once stated that "...The difference between science and dogma is that scientific theory must always be open to falsification on the basis of evidence...". Dogma, on the other hand, is not open to such falsification on the basis of evidence...It is thus and thus alone, evidence to the contrary not withstanding.

Unquestioning faith is also a sign of intellectual laziness. It is far easier to blindly accept what one is told than to question the facts of what one is told. It takes timeand effort to move beyond the dogma, and often such questioning has social costs attached as well...i.e. ostracism, shaming, hostility. It is not an easy thing, to question the beliefs one is expected to hold and all too many seem willing to take the easy waty out.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Liberalism is the most pernicious sytem of dogma out there. You guys refuse to look at reality. In your view, gore won, the economy is in the toilet, unemployment is at an all time high, tax cuts don't stimulate the economy, Iraq is a failed mission. All are lies and distortion.

You need to look at yourself, believer of lies.

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Amen Bullypulpit.


rtwngAvngr, I resent that, I very much pride myself at looking at the reality in all things. There is no reason for me to 'look at myself', lies are what I see when I read that God created the world in a week, and what I see when President Bush speaks. That is not to say other polititians don't lie - it is a dirty game - but it is ridiculous to act as if Bush is a righteous leader - he is not a healthy leader - he thinks god wants him to be president - one's core abilities to lead a free society don't get anymore curopt than that.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
Amen Bullypulpit.


rtwngAvngr, I resent that, I very much pride myself at looking at the reality in all things. There is no reason for me to 'look at myself', lies are what I see when I read that God created the world in a week, and what I see when President Bush speaks. That is not to say other polititians don't lie - it is a dirty game - but it is ridiculous to act as if Bush is a righteous leader - he is not a healthy leader - he thinks god wants him to be president - one's core abilities to lead a free society don't get anymore curopt than that.

I find it funny you claim the Bible is full of lies, and you don't want to look at yourself.

What you have just said is that you run your own race and don't want your illusions shattered by reality no matter what.

Now you get all offended when proven wrong because your ego is bruised.

Welcome to reality.

Justice and truth are not determined by what you feel, but by reality its self.

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I find it funny you claim the Bible is full of lies, and you don't want to look at yourself.

What you have just said is that you run your own race and don't want your illusions shattered by reality no matter what.

Now you get all offended when proven wrong because your ego is bruised.

Welcome to reality.

Justice and truth are not determined by what you feel, but by reality its self.

I look at myself every hour of every day, I don't know where that assumption that I don't came from. Who the fuck are you to tell me I don't 'look at myself'!?
I am part of the human race. That's what I do - Look at reality - not a 2000 year old book.
My ego is strong, again a random comment, I am not offended, and you haven't proven shit.

That was the dumbest set of lines I have ever seen Newguy, absolutely astounding.

You are quite self-righteous welcoming me to reality - Christians are the ones who don't want their illusions shattered by reality no matter what. THAT'S WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT. And I'm ignoring reality. YOU need to look at yourself, and how closed your mind is - ohh wait - you don't, cause their is no consequence for you not adhering to science! Science doesn't need false promises and false punishments to gain followers - because it has FACTS, and LOGICAL INFERENCES.


You are ridiculous. Your satements are ridiculous and completely out of nowhere. You are hopeless to talk to, you are a hypocrit, and you are going to reply to this post with a pile of shit bigger than a Rhinoceros'.

 

[dmp]

pssst...Modu$...you are wigging out, my nubian brother.

If you look for 'reality' you'd 'real'ize the 'book' written 2000 years ago IS true. "Really"

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
I look at myself every hour of every day, I don't know where that assumption that I don't came from. Who the fuck are you to tell me I don't 'look at myself'!?

Gee....

I very much pride myself at looking at the reality in all things. There is no reason for me to 'look at myself',

I am part of the human race. That's what I do - Look at reality - not a 2000 year old book.

Good to know books cannot be real, and that as things get "old" they aren't real either.

My ego is strong, again a random comment, I am not offended, and you haven't proven shit.

That was the dumbest set of lines I have ever seen Newguy, absolutely astounding.

You are quite self-righteous welcoming me to reality - Christians are the ones who don't want their illusions shattered by reality no matter what. THAT'S WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT. And I'm ignoring reality.

:cof:

YOU need to look at yourself, and how closed your mind is - ohh wait - you don't, cause their is no consequence for you not adhering to science! Science doesn't need false promises and false punishments to gain followers - because it has FACTS, and LOGICAL INFERENCES.

My friend, you tread into waters of which you know not the depth.

You are ridiculous. Your satements are ridiculous and completely out of nowhere. You are hopeless to talk to, you are a hypocrit, and you are going to reply to this post with a pile of shit bigger than a Rhinoceros'.

:cof:

Wow. Nice post. Is it your age or IQ that almost breaks the single digit barrier?

How about proving your points with some of that "factual science" for me?

I have trouble understanding some of it as I am only an uneducated Bible following kind of guy.

 

[Unknown]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
I look at myself every hour of every day, I don't know where that assumption that I don't came from. Who the fuck are you to tell me I don't 'look at myself'!?
I am part of the human race. That's what I do - Look at reality - not a 2000 year old book.
My ego is strong, again a random comment, I am not offended, and you haven't proven shit.

That was the dumbest set of lines I have ever seen Newguy, absolutely astounding.

You are quite self-righteous welcoming me to reality - Christians are the ones who don't want their illusions shattered by reality no matter what. THAT'S WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT. And I'm ignoring reality. YOU need to look at yourself, and how closed your mind is - ohh wait - you don't, cause their is no consequence for you not adhering to science! Science doesn't need false promises and false punishments to gain followers - because it has FACTS, and LOGICAL INFERENCES.


You are ridiculous. Your satements are ridiculous and completely out of nowhere. You are hopeless to talk to, you are a hypocrit, and you are going to reply to this post with a pile of shit bigger than a Rhinoceros'.

Your ego is strong and you didn't get offended and you respond like that?

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

No need to look at myself any further in any other way which I haven't - like you so blindly suggest I need to do.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
No need to look at myself any further in any other way which I haven't - like you so blindly suggest I need to do.

-And you are the ultimate authority on that, right?

 

[Avatar4321]

Fact is all people are blind to something. Dont care what your paradign or background is. There are two kinds of solutions for this. You either ignore everything you dont agree with or learn the truth.

I know the truth. I know that Christ lives. Ive found out for myself through study, faith, and revelation. You can learn it for yourself as well. The Scriptures are clear on how to find out for yourself. But i often wonder if youve ever read the scriptures.

Its true, Christianity and Islam cannot both be true. (which is one of the reasons Ive always found the Bahai Claims at odds). Either Christ was the Son of God, or He wasnt. Either He Atoned for the sins of the world or didnt. And i know He did. Ive experienced the power of the Atonement. Ive felt the mercy of God in my life showing me that I can be a better person then I was yesterday, that I can learn more then i knew the day before.

Truth is things as they were, as they are, and as they will be. And Christianity in its pristine state is truth. I am a witness.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Liberalism is the most pernicious sytem of dogma out there. You guys refuse to look at reality. In your view, gore won, the economy is in the toilet, unemployment is at an all time high, tax cuts don't stimulate the economy, Iraq is a failed mission. All are lies and distortion.

You need to look at yourself, believer of lies.

This thread isn't about any of that crap...Go away troll.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Fact is all people are blind to something. Dont care what your paradign or background is. There are two kinds of solutions for this. You either ignore everything you dont agree with or learn the truth.

I know the truth. I know that Christ lives. Ive found out for myself through study, faith, and revelation. You can learn it for yourself as well. The Scriptures are clear on how to find out for yourself. But i often wonder if youve ever read the scriptures.

Its true, Christianity and Islam cannot both be true. (which is one of the reasons Ive always found the Bahai Claims at odds). Either Christ was the Son of God, or He wasnt. Either He Atoned for the sins of the world or didnt. And i know He did. Ive experienced the power of the Atonement. Ive felt the mercy of God in my life showing me that I can be a better person then I was yesterday, that I can learn more then i knew the day before.

Truth is things as they were, as they are, and as they will be. And Christianity in its pristine state is truth. I am a witness.

That is your truth...The truth for Muslims, Jews , Hindus, Buddhists et al may be quite different from yours. Such variety of religious experience is a byproduct of the varying capacities and capabilities amongst us all. Each spiritual path suits the needs of the individuals following it, or are grown accustomed to by being raised in each faith. This diversity of views should be welcomed and examined as to reject them categorically and unquestioningly is like throwing away precious gems scooped up in a handfull of earth. It is this unquestioning and absolute adherence to dogma that leads to conflict between religions as well as the internecine conflict of sectarian struggles.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
That is your truth...The truth for Muslims, Jews , Hindus, Buddhists et al may be quite different from yours.

No.

The OPINION of the others is their OPINION.

Truth is truth. Reflexive.

None of these other groups can claim prophecy to prove their beliefs.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
No.

The OPINION of the others is their OPINION.

Truth is truth. Reflexive.

None of these other groups can claim prophecy to prove their beliefs.

You, apparently, don't get out much...do you. They all have their prophecies, which they claim to proof of the existence of their godhead or creator. They are all based in faith thus all are equally valid to those who hold that faith.

But to regard faith, a subjective internal experience, as absolutely and unvaryingly applicable to all people is an act of hubris, driven solely by the ego. If you have proof...objective incotrovertible proof which does not rely on faith, or scripture, then offer it. Provide proof that there is only one true path fit for all beings...Do not offer the stale arguments from faith or scripture to prove your assertions. Provide objective evidence of your assertions.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
You, apparently, don't get out much...do you. They all have their prophecies, which they claim to proof of the existence of their godhead or creator.

No, they don't.

Prove their prophecies exist.

Prove they WERE prophecies that came true beyond and evidence otherwise.

YOU CAN'T.

They are all based in faith thus all are equally valid to those who hold that faith.

They can believe gravity doesn't exist also, but it ain't true.
Truth is truth.

But to regard faith, a subjective internal experience, as absolutely and unvaryingly applicable to all people is an act of hubris, driven solely by the ego. If you have proof...objective incotrovertible proof which does not rely on faith, or scripture, then offer it. Provide proof that there is only one true path fit for all beings...Do not offer the stale arguments from faith or scripture to prove your assertions. Provide objective evidence of your assertions.

One cannot provide objective truth when the SUBJECT will not allow themselves observance of objectivity.

Why do you insist on ME proving things when you still can't?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
This thread isn't about any of that crap...Go away troll.

This thread is about facts, lies and beliefs. You believe lies.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
You, apparently, don't get out much...do you. They all have their prophecies, which they claim to proof of the existence of their godhead or creator. They are all based in faith thus all are equally valid to those who hold that faith.

But to regard faith, a subjective internal experience, as absolutely and unvaryingly applicable to all people is an act of hubris, driven solely by the ego. If you have proof...objective incotrovertible proof which does not rely on faith, or scripture, then offer it. Provide proof that there is only one true path fit for all beings...Do not offer the stale arguments from faith or scripture to prove your assertions. Provide objective evidence of your assertions.

Bully, you can't just say that "If that's the truth for you, that's great." Either a fatih system is true or it is false, and there can be no in-between. Either I can work off my karma and attain nirvana through the Eightfold Path, or I can't. Either Jesus was the Son of God, or He wasn't. Either Mohammed was the true prophet of God, or He wasn't. There can only be one religion that is correct.
That said, I would challenge you to read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, in which he outlines the arguments that are the foundation for the Christian belief: http://www.the-case-for-christ.com/

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Bully, you can't just say that "If that's the truth for you, that's great." Either a fatih system is true or it is false, and there can be no in-between. Either I can work off my karma and attain nirvana through the Eightfold Path, or I can't. Either Jesus was the Son of God, or He wasn't. Either Mohammed was the true prophet of God, or He wasn't. There can only be one religion that is correct.
That said, I would challenge you to read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, in which he outlines the arguments that are the foundation for the Christian belief: http://www.the-case-for-christ.com/

"There can only be one religion that is correct."

Why?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Bully, you can't just say that "If that's the truth for you, that's great." Either a fatih system is true or it is false, and there can be no in-between. Either I can work off my karma and attain nirvana through the Eightfold Path, or I can't. Either Jesus was the Son of God, or He wasn't. Either Mohammed was the true prophet of God, or He wasn't. There can only be one religion that is correct.
That said, I would challenge you to read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, in which he outlines the arguments that are the foundation for the Christian belief: http://www.the-case-for-christ.com/

Mr. Stobel was looking for something, and he found it else he would not have become a Christian. But you know what...? Good for him! He found what he needed to fill the void in his life. Converts to Islam find what they need, converts to Judaism find what they need, converts to Hinduism find what they need, converts to Buddhism find what they need...and so on and so forth.

So, to stand and say thus and thus alone is true and all else is false an act of ego and hubris which does nothing but promote strife. You may say that one merely has to accept the word and the way to avoid strife, but this begs the question of "Whose word?" and "Whose way?". Then you're back where you begin, with endless arguments and strife over whose word and way is the "one true" way.

As for Mr. Strobel's book, I'm certain one could find similar tomes written by adherents of other religions...You'll have to take it on faith.