A Gay Christian Theologist has it correct concerning marriage

[RodISHI]

 

[Spinster]

While he is correct in his theology, it seems he is nonetheless very mixed up about his ideal of sexuality. It's difficult to understand how someone can be so double minded, especially on two such diametrically opposed positions as this. One can't have it both ways. A choice must be made. Either you stand on one side or decide to go the other way.

 

[RodISHI]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

 

[emilynghiem]

While he is correct in his theology, it seems he is nonetheless very mixed up about his ideal of sexuality. It's difficult to understand how someone can be so double minded, especially on two such diametrically opposed positions as this. One can't have it both ways. A choice must be made. Either you stand on one side or decide to go the other way.

What about the priest who was openly gay, but committed not to act on it and accept a celibate life,
for the purpose of serving as a priest and not intending to marry which isn't his path in life.

So this does not contradict believing in traditional marriage only.
At least one priest said he believed being gay was part of his calling to be a celibate priest.

 

[Spinster]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

I understood that and I listened to his entire statement, I'm saying that even in light of that it is difficult to comprehend how he is so torn. We are no strangers to carnal flesh, certainly, but what I don't get is how by his choice he seemed so lonely, sad, and lost. This to me isn't the same as dying to self as Paul described. That means to me more along the lines of through Christ am I capable, not I know this is wrong and choose to live differently.

 

[RodISHI]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

I understood that and I listened to his entire statement, I'm saying that even in light of that it is difficult to comprehend how he is so torn. We are no strangers to carnal flesh, certainly, but what I don't get is how by his choice he seemed so lonely, sad, and lost. This to me isn't the same as dying to self as Paul described. That means to me more along the lines of through Christ am I capable, not I know this is wrong and choose to live differently.

He is a theologian. Not everything happens in a day as people grow in the spirit. Following the spirit is not necessarily a happy place, nor does anywhere in the Bible say it is an easy place. Rod and I met a young man fighting this type of demon one winter while I worked out of town. It was not easy for him but he was trying to live day by day. He shared his nightmares, how his Christian family had treated him, the fact that he had taken drugs even to overcome the shame he had while he lived in that life of what he called Hell. He told us how much the Lord had blessed him by us staying where he worked. Truthfully hearing his own testimony in his own words was a blessing. To me it is inspiring that even one will take a stand for truth. Not to say they have it right all the time either but that they give an effort to find the truth matters. Jesus taught believe in something for one could be saved. We are all a work in progress here in this world.

He also has a lot of spiritual support where he is.... that helps

 

[emilynghiem]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

I understood that and I listened to his entire statement, I'm saying that even in light of that it is difficult to comprehend how he is so torn. We are no strangers to carnal flesh, certainly, but what I don't get is how by his choice he seemed so lonely, sad, and lost. This to me isn't the same as dying to self as Paul described. That means to me more along the lines of through Christ am I capable, not I know this is wrong and choose to live differently.

Dear Spinster
If you have friends fighting an anger tendency, any abuse or addiction that is embedded in their nature,
this is similar for this man at least.

For some people they feel their homosexual or transgender orientation is natural for them.
For those who do not, they go through a different process.
Some heal and accept it, some stay at odds with it, some overcome and change it.

It depends on the person what their default path and purpose is in life,
and then whatever conditions they face may be in conflict with this.
We cannot judge people for whatever they identify as their default way of being.
If it is natural for them, and isn't meant to change, that's up to them to figure out.
If it is unnatural for them, and either meant to change or not, that's up to them to cope with.

The mistake people seem to make in trying to figure it out
is assuming all cases are the same. Just because homosexual orientation is
unnatural for some people and changes with therapy, it doesn't mean that is true for ALL people.
Just because it is natural for some people and won't change and isn't a choice,
doesn't mean that is true for ALL people.

What matters is reconciling with what is natural for people and dealing with that unconditionally,
regardless what way it turns out for that person.

People on both sides are guilty of projecting their perspective
and thinking that applies to ALL people. so there are assumptions and injuries
on both sides caused by projecting one way for all cases, which causes added pressures and conflicts.

this issue really should be addressed on a personal spiritual level
and quit trying to mandate public policy on things that are unique to each person.

Govt is not in the business of regulating or dictating spirituality,
and this matter involves what people are born with spiritually to work through
which is NOT govt business.

 

[emilynghiem]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

I understood that and I listened to his entire statement, I'm saying that even in light of that it is difficult to comprehend how he is so torn. We are no strangers to carnal flesh, certainly, but what I don't get is how by his choice he seemed so lonely, sad, and lost. This to me isn't the same as dying to self as Paul described. That means to me more along the lines of through Christ am I capable, not I know this is wrong and choose to live differently.

He is a theologian. Not everything happens in a day as people grow in the spirit. Following the spirit is not necessarily a happy place, nor does anywhere in the Bible say it is an easy place. Rod and I met a young man fighting this type of demon one winter while I worked out of town. It was not easy for him but he was trying to live day by day. He shared his nightmares, how his Christian family had treated him, the fact that he had taken drugs even to overcome the shame he had while he lived in that life of what he called Hell. He told us how much the Lord had blessed him by us staying where he worked. Truthfully hearing his own testimony in his own words was a blessing. To me it is inspiring that even one will take a stand for truth. Not to say they have it right all the time either but that they give an effort to find the truth matters. Jesus taught believe in something for one could be saved. We are all a work in progress here in this world.

He also has a lot of spiritual support where he is.... that helps

How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education | Page 4 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Dear RodISHI
If you are still in touch with this young man, please refer him to
Dr. Francis and Judith MacNutt (see sample testimony above)
They are able to help people heal of either the unwanted homosexual
attractions and tendencies, or resolve the conflicts even if this cannot be changed.
The point is to receive healing "unconditionally" so regardless what changes
or not, the person receives a fuller sense of forgiveness and peace.
This method of accepting forgiveness and healing "unconditionally" has been used
to cure cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, schizophrenia and other mental
and physical ills, as well as to heal relationships destroyed by abuse and addictions.
So it is broader than just healing the root causes of unwanted homosexuality.

there are also sites for People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
and Voice of the Voiceless

but I prefer to refer Christian Healing Ministries because they
only focus on healing for its own sake (for any and all conditions, not just one issue)
Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries
and Francis MacNutt's book on HEALING explains the process
where it can be studied through psychology and medicine as a key part of natural healing

 

[RodISHI]

If you listen clear through he states he chooses Christ first. His personal thorn he works to put away daily. He is doing what Paul preached about when he said "I die daily". Each day as a member of the body of Christ one chooses to put off the desires of the carnal flesh and follow the Lord.

I understood that and I listened to his entire statement, I'm saying that even in light of that it is difficult to comprehend how he is so torn. We are no strangers to carnal flesh, certainly, but what I don't get is how by his choice he seemed so lonely, sad, and lost. This to me isn't the same as dying to self as Paul described. That means to me more along the lines of through Christ am I capable, not I know this is wrong and choose to live differently.

He is a theologian. Not everything happens in a day as people grow in the spirit. Following the spirit is not necessarily a happy place, nor does anywhere in the Bible say it is an easy place. Rod and I met a young man fighting this type of demon one winter while I worked out of town. It was not easy for him but he was trying to live day by day. He shared his nightmares, how his Christian family had treated him, the fact that he had taken drugs even to overcome the shame he had while he lived in that life of what he called Hell. He told us how much the Lord had blessed him by us staying where he worked. Truthfully hearing his own testimony in his own words was a blessing. To me it is inspiring that even one will take a stand for truth. Not to say they have it right all the time either but that they give an effort to find the truth matters. Jesus taught believe in something for one could be saved. We are all a work in progress here in this world.

He also has a lot of spiritual support where he is.... that helps

How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education | Page 4 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Dear RodISHI
If you are still in touch with this young man, please refer him to
Dr. Francis and Judith MacNutt (see sample testimony above)
They are able to help people heal of either the unwanted homosexual
attractions and tendencies, or resolve the conflicts even if this cannot be changed.
The point is to receive healing "unconditionally" so regardless what changes
or not, the person receives a fuller sense of forgiveness and peace.
This method of accepting forgiveness and healing "unconditionally" has been used
to cure cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, schizophrenia and other mental
and physical ills, as well as to heal relationships destroyed by abuse and addictions.
So it is broader than just healing the root causes of unwanted homosexuality.

there are also sites for People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
and Voice of the Voiceless

but I prefer to refer Christian Healing Ministries because they
only focus on healing for its own sake (for any and all conditions, not just one issue)
Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries
and Francis MacNutt's book on HEALING explains the process
where it can be studied through psychology and medicine as a key part of natural healing

We have not seen the young man for years but I still think of him and his struggles. I am sure he will find the help he needs. There is a lot more spiritual help outreaches now than there was then. As a dear very wise friend told me years ago, "always remember big wheels turn slow when you consider these things you deal with".

 

[Blackrook]

The position of my church, Catholicism, is that it is not a sin to be a homosexual, but it is a sin to act it out.

Homosexuals are called to a life of chastity.

 

[Spinster]

Sure, whatever you say, I guess. NOT!! Thought we were talking real world here. Once upon a time...