A few question's for atheists ?

[JScott]

Really,proof there is no God.

How did life begin without a designer even though this earth and life show design ?

The way it works is you supply proof that God exists.

A divinely inspired bible is evidence of the one who inspired it and science agrees with the bible that was written 3,000 years earlier.

Now do you care to provide those facts you brought up.

Still waiting for your explanation on Gene depletion + Natural selection and how it promotes evolution ?

A book does not prove there is an entity named God somewhere in a place called heaven.

Noahs voyage did not occur. No boat could have carried that many adult animals that "abstained from procreation" according to Jewish tradition. Argentinosaurus itself was up to 130 feet long and weighed about 110 tons. Two would have been way too big for the ark.

Theres also the fact that scientists do not believe a world wide flood ever happened. Other cultures do have their own flood stories complete with their very own "hero" like Noah.

There have been very large floods in the distant past caused by tsunamis and probably meteors or earth quakes but not world wide floods. Even Leonardo da Vinci didnt think there had been a world flood, because of strata he saw......

I know about natural selection.

How about you explain gene depletion.

 

[FA_Q2]

So you are saying you totally believe in evolution, right?

That is a strange question. I have been quite clear not only in this thread but many others. You know the answer…

As you requested.

The Bible Foreshadows Scientific Discoveries

Not quite. Those are modern interpretations of the bible. Show me the original translations and how they made these great scientific discoveries.

The earliest translation is much older then the best discoveries of science that support the scriptures.

Do a search on bible chronology and argue your point with those scholars that would disagree with you. What a pathetic and weak response but not surprising.

Except that your bible quotes are crap. They don’t say anything, just extremely vague statements that can be construed to mean anything whatsoever. They are so much so that not one single scientific discovery has EVER come from reading the bible. What you are doing is taking current knowledge and forcing the biblical statements to fit around reality. It proves nothing and shows nothing. Here is a simple example:
2 Peter 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water

The earth is clearly not formed out of water. I am sure you can come up with some roundabout way to explain this as I can come up with a way to make each of those statements you laid out false in a scientific sense. That does not show proof; it shows that you can read too far into words that are not meant to be read into that far.

Give the real reason why evolutionists claim they don't deal with the origings of life ?

Do you remember a very famous book called "The origins of life" and who the author was ?

Do you need quotes from scientist that tried to come up with an explanation for the origins of life ?

I gave you the reason; evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life. All it covers is its progression. There are several hypotheses about how life began but none of them have sufficient evidence to be considered a scientific theory yet.

The book does not matter and the scientist does not matter. The theory of evolution was what your OP was talking about and I have given you the reason that evolution does not deal with the origins of life. If you cannot accept simple facts then why are you even here?

Something else that you need to understand is that science is all right with the answer ‘I don’t know.’ Religious dogma concerns itself with absolutes, not science. There is no need to know all aspects of an event or process to acknowledge its existence as a natural phenomenon and study it. We are still not completely sure of how the sun works. That does not mean that we don’t know a great many things about the sun and have many scientific theories that explain them. Why can you not accept that science does not need an answer immediately? What is wrong with the pursuit of knowledge?

The real reason they make no claims because they can't come up with a logical explanation and any evidence to back the explanation.

Sure there is,i gave it to you earlier in the thread and science can't refute that evidence only support it.

Correct, there currently is no logical explanation on the origins of life or we would have reproduced the events already. What is the point?

No you gave zero evidence in this thread. All you have come up with is complexity. Complexity is not a proof of anything. String theory is quite complex, to the point that extremely few people actually understand it yet the process is completely natural.

God said in the bible he created living organisms according to their kind ,each and every kind, and time and time again living organisms keep reproducing after their kind. Why is it that time and time again living organisms reproduce offspring after their own kind ?

You know why, genetics from parents and parents of their parents keep producing genes after their own kind proving the words from the bible accurate. Since science can't produce
Macro-evolution i would say there is more evidence that the bible is more accurate about life over modern day science wild unfounded theory.
We all know changes can happen within a group but not changes that would create a completely new group. and you're are not being honest when you suggest science is not concerned with facts or solid evidence to prove their explanations.

Here, again, you fail to understand current biology. There is no “kind” or distinction that you can point out scientifically. It does not exist. Those are terms from biology before we understood genetics. Not all things reproduce in their kind either. A horse and a donkey do not produce a creature of either but instead create a mule; another creature altogether that is neither parent and not able to produce on its own. The issue here is that there is not enough drift from the 2 species that they have completely lost the ability to reproduce but they have drifted far enough so that they are not the same thing. With the discovery of genetics, we now understand this process much more than we did when terms like kind, species and family were created. Now we know those terms are little more than distinctions crated to satisfy our need to categorize things and they have no scientific value.

There is no such thing as ‘macro evolution’ and ‘micro evolution.’ Those terms were created by creationists so they could argue against something.

Anyone who has a clue concerning Genetics knows that the DNA Code Barrier + Gene Depletion + Natural Selection = Zero Neo-Darwinism.

The DNA Code Barrier is a principle which demonstrates that one kind, such as a dog,only has genetic information to produce dogs. Though there can be a wide range of variation in their gene pool, dogs only have the DNA to produce dogs. Gene Depletion is the scientific principle that mutations are caused by the sorting or loss of the parents genetic data. Finally,Natural Selection removes the genetically weaker mutant, preserving the gene pool and PREVENTING Neo-Darwinian change. Real science proves that dogs can only produce dogs. In other words, kinds can only bring forth after their kind, just as we are told ten times in the book of Genesis!

So Gene Depletion and Natural Selection make Macro-evolution an impossibility.

No, they don’t. It makes evolving difficult. Hence, the MILLIONS of years that have passed to get here. You have been handed all this before by smaterthanhick when he destroyed your asinine argument before. The interesting part is that NONE of your argument has changed; you just moved somewhere else where you hope the facts do not show up again.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Your personal opinion and surmations are not facts....

Do you have any evidence to refute my opinions and surmations and show them not to be facts ?

Nope. Not how it works. Ther person making the assertion has to provide evidence. Your BELIEFS are not evidence - well, not to any scientific standard....which is the only one that matters/counts...

I am sorry i did provide evidence that can't be refuted is that not how you revise your textbooks is finding contradictory evidence ?

The problem for you is this has long been unrefuted evidence, and since this evidence supports my claims this is your desperate attempt to cast doubt on the evidence .Sorry the facts are the facts deal with it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Everything came from something....things just don't appear out of a vacuum or ether....

True for everything except for the one person that has always been.

but there is absolutely no proof, or shread of evidence that such an entity exists. Only an old book that was translated several times over into a language we understand...shrug...

Do you care to tell us where the information came from that was in the scriptures from the time of the dead sea scrolls ? If man had no way of knowing any of that information and the information was not confirmed by science unitl the last hundred years,where did this information come from ?

Is that not what science does predicts and then confirm through empirical evidence ?

Explain to me or even present a rebuttal that offers proof saying otherwise or don't waste my time.

I have entertained many debates and it usually ends with your side admitting ignorance so i am trying to let you off gently.

 

[dblack]

Sorry the facts are the facts deal with it.

Will do!

 

[tallmike]

I am sorry i did provide evidence that can't be refuted is that not how you revise your textbooks is finding contradictory evidence ?

The problem for you is this has long been unrefuted evidence, and since this evidence supports my claims this is your desperate attempt to cast doubt on the evidence .Sorry the facts are the facts deal with it.

Do you have any evidence that isn't the bible? I understand that for you the bible is infallible, but those of us without faith will need something more.

And no, the complexity of life is not evidence unless you can then explain the complexity of your god.

 

[pinqy]

The Bible Foreshadows Scientific Discoveries

What is the Shape of the Earth?
Today we take the shape of the earth for granted, but remember that primitive man had no way to actually know that the earth is spherical. In fact, without access to exploration and distant observation, the world most certainly seemed flat, and that is exactly how primitive men and cultures described it. But the Bible describes it differently:

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Proverbs 8:27
When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth

But also: Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Is the earth a circle or does it have corners?)

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (which is not possible with a round earth).

For thousands of years, the Jews were surrounded by people who believed the earth was flat. They believed that if they were to travel too far in any direction, they would fall over the edge. This was also taught in both Hindu and Buddhist scripture. In the 1500’s however, the first ship sailed around the world, proving that the earth was round. But even before this explorative discovery, the round earth was recorded in the Judeo-Christian Bible! The prophet Isaiah spoke of the 'circle of the earth.' Solomon wrote, 'He [God] set a compass [circle] upon the face of the deep.' Hundreds of years later, Arab Muslims would speak of infidels being pushed over the edge of the earth into space. Yet even 3,000 years ago, our Bible said the earth was round.

A circle is not a sphere, but beyond that, where is any evidence that the Jews, based solely on the scriptures, believed the earth to be spherical?

Job 26:7
He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.

But also from Job: Job 9:6 "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

Job 38:4-6 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; "

And Psalm 75:3 "The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah."

Are There Valleys in the Seas?
Now there are many areas in our world that are unseen and difficult to explore. But as we progress in time, we certainly have explored more and more of the world around us. But what about the ancient cultures of our world? How much more were they unaware of? How much more was still unseen and undiscovered? Many ancient writings assume false premises about those areas of our world that were yet unexplored, but the writers of the Bible happened to describe accurately a part of the world that they could not examine in any way:

2Samuel 22:16
The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils

Psalm 18:15
Then the channels of water appeared, And the foundations of the world were laid bare at Thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of Thy nostrils.

Job 38:16
Have you entered into the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses (valleys) of the deep?

Jonah 2:5-6
The great deep engulfed me, weeds were wrapped around my head. I descended to the roots of the mountains…

It also apparently has doors: Job 38:8-11 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? "

Is There Something Called the Hydrologic Cycle?
Each of us is surrounded by weather all day long, and we generally take it for granted. But ancient cultures were often so mystified by the weather that they attributed mystical forces to everything they saw. But look at how the Biblical writers described the forces of weather (something we have come to call the Hydrologic Cycle):

Job 26:8
He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight

Job 36:27-28
He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind

But apparently it also has storehouses of weather:
Job 38:22-23
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war"

Psalm 102:22-26
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded

Hebrews 1:10-11
In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Foundations? I thought the Bible made it clear the earth hung on nothing?

And you forgot to mention the Bible's take on Genetics:
Gen 30:38-39
"And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted." [/quote]
Shall we duplicate that experiment?

Oh, and don't forget talking serpents (which eat dust) and talking donkeys. Yep, loads of scientific accuracy there.

And of course the geocentric model of the solar system:
Joshua 10:13 13
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

2 Kings 20:11
"And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. "

How do those work again?

In short, as has already been pointed out, all the "scientific discoveries" were not actually known prior to the real scientific discoveries, but have only been retro-fitted explanations.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The way it works is you supply proof that God exists.

A divinely inspired bible is evidence of the one who inspired it and science agrees with the bible that was written 3,000 years earlier.

Now do you care to provide those facts you brought up.

Still waiting for your explanation on Gene depletion + Natural selection and how it promotes evolution ?

A book does not prove there is an entity named God somewhere in a place called heaven.

Noahs voyage did not occur. No boat could have carried that many adult animals that "abstained from procreation" according to Jewish tradition. Argentinosaurus itself was up to 130 feet long and weighed about 110 tons. Two would have been way too big for the ark.

Theres also the fact that scientists do not believe a world wide flood ever happened. Other cultures do have their own flood stories complete with their very own "hero" like Noah.

There have been very large floods in the distant past caused by tsunamis and probably meteors or earth quakes but not world wide floods. Even Leonardo da Vinci didnt think there had been a world flood, because of strata he saw......

I know about natural selection.

How about you explain gene depletion.

If you can't present better arguments and just keep repeating yourself with writings of no substance, please do not waste my time. In the other thread i was really bored with your empty rhetoric.

I gave you plenty of evidence that showed the great flood and evidence that showed the flaws with the fossil record.

Concerning Da Vinci was he better equipped to understand flood data and strata evidence over todays scientist ? Was it Da Vinci discovering fossil graveyards that showed many different organisms being buried alive together by strata ?

How many global flood legends are there ? kinda trumps Da Vinci now don't it.



Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.

These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided. The overwhelming consistency among flood legends found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin (the Bible's record), but oral transcription has changed the details through time.

Perhaps the second most important historical account of a global flood can be found in a Babylonian flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the Biblical and Babylonian accounts are compared, a number of outstanding similarities are found that leave no doubt these stories are rooted in the same event or oral tradition.

BABYLONIAN BIBLE
Take the seed of all creatures aboard the ship Gen. 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring.
I boarded the ship and closed the door. Gen. 7:1 Come into the Ark
Gen. 7:16 The Lord shut him in.
I sent out a dove . . . The dove went, then came back, no resting-place appeared for it, so it returned. Gen. 8:8 He sent out a dove...But the dove found no resting-place . . . and she returned.
Then I sent out a raven . .it was the waters receding, it ate, it flew about to and fro, it did not return. Gen. 8:7 He sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the Earth.
I made a libation on the peak of the mountain. Gen. 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord (on the mountain) and offered burnt offerings.


Source Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life

Oh and i have seen some figures higher then 500 global flood legends.

Oh and who said anything about adult animals on the ark,don't you think it would have had made more sense to take juveniles on the ark ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So you are saying you totally believe in evolution, right?

That is a strange question. I have been quite clear not only in this thread but many others. You know the answer…

The earliest translation is much older then the best discoveries of science that support the scriptures.

Do a search on bible chronology and argue your point with those scholars that would disagree with you. What a pathetic and weak response but not surprising.

Except that your bible quotes are crap. They don’t say anything, just extremely vague statements that can be construed to mean anything whatsoever. They are so much so that not one single scientific discovery has EVER come from reading the bible. What you are doing is taking current knowledge and forcing the biblical statements to fit around reality. It proves nothing and shows nothing. Here is a simple example:
2 Peter 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water

The earth is clearly not formed out of water. I am sure you can come up with some roundabout way to explain this as I can come up with a way to make each of those statements you laid out false in a scientific sense. That does not show proof; it shows that you can read too far into words that are not meant to be read into that far.

God said in the bible he created living organisms according to their kind ,each and every kind, and time and time again living organisms keep reproducing after their kind. Why is it that time and time again living organisms reproduce offspring after their own kind ?

You know why, genetics from parents and parents of their parents keep producing genes after their own kind proving the words from the bible accurate. Since science can't produce
Macro-evolution i would say there is more evidence that the bible is more accurate about life over modern day science wild unfounded theory.
We all know changes can happen within a group but not changes that would create a completely new group. and you're are not being honest when you suggest science is not concerned with facts or solid evidence to prove their explanations.

Here, again, you fail to understand current biology. There is no “kind” or distinction that you can point out scientifically. It does not exist. Those are terms from biology before we understood genetics. Not all things reproduce in their kind either. A horse and a donkey do not produce a creature of either but instead create a mule; another creature altogether that is neither parent and not able to produce on its own. The issue here is that there is not enough drift from the 2 species that they have completely lost the ability to reproduce but they have drifted far enough so that they are not the same thing. With the discovery of genetics, we now understand this process much more than we did when terms like kind, species and family were created. Now we know those terms are little more than distinctions crated to satisfy our need to categorize things and they have no scientific value.

There is no such thing as ‘macro evolution’ and ‘micro evolution.’ Those terms were created by creationists so they could argue against something.

Anyone who has a clue concerning Genetics knows that the DNA Code Barrier + Gene Depletion + Natural Selection = Zero Neo-Darwinism.

The DNA Code Barrier is a principle which demonstrates that one kind, such as a dog,only has genetic information to produce dogs. Though there can be a wide range of variation in their gene pool, dogs only have the DNA to produce dogs. Gene Depletion is the scientific principle that mutations are caused by the sorting or loss of the parents genetic data. Finally,Natural Selection removes the genetically weaker mutant, preserving the gene pool and PREVENTING Neo-Darwinian change. Real science proves that dogs can only produce dogs. In other words, kinds can only bring forth after their kind, just as we are told ten times in the book of Genesis!

So Gene Depletion and Natural Selection make Macro-evolution an impossibility.

No, they don’t. It makes evolving difficult. Hence, the MILLIONS of years that have passed to get here. You have been handed all this before by smaterthanhick when he destroyed your asinine argument before. The interesting part is that NONE of your argument has changed; you just moved somewhere else where you hope the facts do not show up again.

A dog is a dog a horse is a horse no ?

Wake up and smell what you're shoveling.

Smarterthanhick can't hold a candle to Professor greycloud and he punted on these very issues dreamer.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The Bible Foreshadows Scientific Discoveries

What is the Shape of the Earth?
Today we take the shape of the earth for granted, but remember that primitive man had no way to actually know that the earth is spherical. In fact, without access to exploration and distant observation, the world most certainly seemed flat, and that is exactly how primitive men and cultures described it. But the Bible describes it differently:

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Proverbs 8:27
When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth

But also: Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Is the earth a circle or does it have corners?)

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (which is not possible with a round earth).

For thousands of years, the Jews were surrounded by people who believed the earth was flat. They believed that if they were to travel too far in any direction, they would fall over the edge. This was also taught in both Hindu and Buddhist scripture. In the 1500’s however, the first ship sailed around the world, proving that the earth was round. But even before this explorative discovery, the round earth was recorded in the Judeo-Christian Bible! The prophet Isaiah spoke of the 'circle of the earth.' Solomon wrote, 'He [God] set a compass [circle] upon the face of the deep.' Hundreds of years later, Arab Muslims would speak of infidels being pushed over the edge of the earth into space. Yet even 3,000 years ago, our Bible said the earth was round.

A circle is not a sphere, but beyond that, where is any evidence that the Jews, based solely on the scriptures, believed the earth to be spherical?


But also from Job: Job 9:6 "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

Job 38:4-6 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; "

And Psalm 75:3 "The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah."


It also apparently has doors: Job 38:8-11 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? "

Is There Something Called the Hydrologic Cycle?
Each of us is surrounded by weather all day long, and we generally take it for granted. But ancient cultures were often so mystified by the weather that they attributed mystical forces to everything they saw. But look at how the Biblical writers described the forces of weather (something we have come to call the Hydrologic Cycle):

Job 26:8
He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight

Job 36:27-28
He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind

But apparently it also has storehouses of weather:
Job 38:22-23
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war"

Psalm 102:22-26
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded

Hebrews 1:10-11
In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Foundations? I thought the Bible made it clear the earth hung on nothing?

And you forgot to mention the Bible's take on Genetics:
Gen 30:38-39
"And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted."

Shall we duplicate that experiment?


In short, as has already been pointed out, all the "scientific discoveries" were not actually known prior to the real scientific discoveries, but have only been retro-fitted explanations.[/QUOTE]

Was that your poor attempt top show a contradiction ? Four corners would represent the entire earth which is repeated and explained in the scriptures.

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth so that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Oh boy do you actually believe everything written in the scriptures is literal ?

Did you not notice the quotes from the bible that said the earth was round ? My friend you have a poor understanding of whats literal and not in the scriptures.

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

It was a vision not literal. The point of it was to show satan was in control of of the governments of the earth.

If i could understand every parable that is recorded in the scriptures i would be God.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The Bible Foreshadows Scientific Discoveries

What is the Shape of the Earth?
Today we take the shape of the earth for granted, but remember that primitive man had no way to actually know that the earth is spherical. In fact, without access to exploration and distant observation, the world most certainly seemed flat, and that is exactly how primitive men and cultures described it. But the Bible describes it differently:

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Proverbs 8:27
When He prepared the heavens, I was there: when He set a compass upon the face of the depth

But also: Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Is the earth a circle or does it have corners?)

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (which is not possible with a round earth).

For thousands of years, the Jews were surrounded by people who believed the earth was flat. They believed that if they were to travel too far in any direction, they would fall over the edge. This was also taught in both Hindu and Buddhist scripture. In the 1500’s however, the first ship sailed around the world, proving that the earth was round. But even before this explorative discovery, the round earth was recorded in the Judeo-Christian Bible! The prophet Isaiah spoke of the 'circle of the earth.' Solomon wrote, 'He [God] set a compass [circle] upon the face of the deep.' Hundreds of years later, Arab Muslims would speak of infidels being pushed over the edge of the earth into space. Yet even 3,000 years ago, our Bible said the earth was round.

A circle is not a sphere, but beyond that, where is any evidence that the Jews, based solely on the scriptures, believed the earth to be spherical?


But also from Job: Job 9:6 "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

Job 38:4-6 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; "

And Psalm 75:3 "The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah."


It also apparently has doors: Job 38:8-11 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? "

Is There Something Called the Hydrologic Cycle?
Each of us is surrounded by weather all day long, and we generally take it for granted. But ancient cultures were often so mystified by the weather that they attributed mystical forces to everything they saw. But look at how the Biblical writers described the forces of weather (something we have come to call the Hydrologic Cycle):

Job 26:8
He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight

Job 36:27-28
He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind

But apparently it also has storehouses of weather:
Job 38:22-23
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war"

Psalm 102:22-26
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded

Hebrews 1:10-11
In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Foundations? I thought the Bible made it clear the earth hung on nothing?

And you forgot to mention the Bible's take on Genetics:
Gen 30:38-39
"And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted."

Shall we duplicate that experiment?

Oh, and don't forget talking serpents (which eat dust) and talking donkeys. Yep, loads of scientific accuracy there.

And of course the geocentric model of the solar system:
Joshua 10:13 13
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

2 Kings 20:11
"And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. "

How do those work again?

In short, as has already been pointed out, all the "scientific discoveries" were not actually known prior to the real scientific discoveries, but have only been retro-fitted explanations.[/QUOTE]

Just for you pinqy,several videos for you.

11-Big Bang or Big Dud?

13-Science Refutes Neo-Darwinism

18-Old Earth Brainwashing

28-Dinosaurs and Man

29-Fire Breathing Dragons?

30-Pre-Historic or Pre-Flood?

So you're pointing out things from the bible that takes faith to believe but it also takes faith to believe in creation and even takes faith for you to believe that man made theory of evolution.

I would explain why the serpent was talking but you really are not interested unless you see it for yourself ,but let me recommend a movie so you get the point.Anthony hopkins is in this movie called " The Rite" you should understand the talking serpent after viewing this movie.

So you are just gonna reject the things written in the bible that have been confirmed by science. So are you really looking for truth or do you have an agenda ?

 

[pinqy]

Was that your poor attempt top show a contradiction ? Four corners would represent the entire earth which is repeated and explained in the scriptures.

Oh boy do you actually believe everything written in the scriptures is literal ?

Did you not notice the quotes from the bible that said the earth was round ? My friend you have a poor understanding of whats literal and not in the scriptures.

Ah, so "four corners" is figurative, and "circle" is literal (except really meaning a sphere." Is that how it works? As I said, retro-fitting what's figurative and literal based on later, non-Biblical understanding.

I notice you ignore that the sun going backwards cannot be literal, yet it certainly was understood to be literal prior to Copernicus.

And the genetics of Gen 30, where breeding in front of stripped trees make the offspring resemble the stripes was believed until Mendel.

What is considered literal and what is considered figurative has changed over time.

 

[dblack]

You're all just educated stupid: Time Cube

 

[Youwerecreated]

Was that your poor attempt top show a contradiction ? Four corners would represent the entire earth which is repeated and explained in the scriptures.

Oh boy do you actually believe everything written in the scriptures is literal ?

Did you not notice the quotes from the bible that said the earth was round ? My friend you have a poor understanding of whats literal and not in the scriptures.

Ah, so "four corners" is figurative, and "circle" is literal (except really meaning a sphere." Is that how it works? As I said, retro-fitting what's figurative and literal based on later, non-Biblical understanding.

I notice you ignore that the sun going backwards cannot be literal, yet it certainly was understood to be literal prior to Copernicus.

And the genetics of Gen 30, where breeding in front of stripped trees make the offspring resemble the stripes was believed until Mendel.

What is considered literal and what is considered figurative has changed over time.

May i suggest you research Rashi for the interpretation of what you're quoting ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Was that your poor attempt top show a contradiction ? Four corners would represent the entire earth which is repeated and explained in the scriptures.

Oh boy do you actually believe everything written in the scriptures is literal ?

Did you not notice the quotes from the bible that said the earth was round ? My friend you have a poor understanding of whats literal and not in the scriptures.

Ah, so "four corners" is figurative, and "circle" is literal (except really meaning a sphere." Is that how it works? As I said, retro-fitting what's figurative and literal based on later, non-Biblical understanding.

I notice you ignore that the sun going backwards cannot be literal, yet it certainly was understood to be literal prior to Copernicus.

And the genetics of Gen 30, where breeding in front of stripped trees make the offspring resemble the stripes was believed until Mendel.

What is considered literal and what is considered figurative has changed over time.

With all the different religions and beliefs you're correct but just like science there are no logical answers or anyway to prove a view sometimes. That person relies on faith.

And no not every believer believed the earth was flat.

For me the bible has to be in complete agreement but there are some things there is no way to know the meaning or answer. The bible is free of contradiction in my views. Is not what you read in the textbooks suggestive and in some cases seems unreal or impossible, but yet you believe what you read don't you ?

 

[k2skier]

YWC, I see your sig line has only 2 choices for life on this blue planet; why only 2?

One theory I thought of long ago, being a huge sci-fi fan, is we were planted here by an alien life form...no more of a stretch than an invisible man in the sky waved his magic wand and created matter from nothing.

Remember, in science, the simplest answer is usually the correct answer, and evolution does not try to explain how life began, just how Homosapiens came about to walk on this planet.

 

[JScott]

A divinely inspired bible is evidence of the one who inspired it and science agrees with the bible that was written 3,000 years earlier.

Now do you care to provide those facts you brought up.

Still waiting for your explanation on Gene depletion + Natural selection and how it promotes evolution ?

A book does not prove there is an entity named God somewhere in a place called heaven.

Noahs voyage did not occur. No boat could have carried that many adult animals that "abstained from procreation" according to Jewish tradition. Argentinosaurus itself was up to 130 feet long and weighed about 110 tons. Two would have been way too big for the ark.

Theres also the fact that scientists do not believe a world wide flood ever happened. Other cultures do have their own flood stories complete with their very own "hero" like Noah.

There have been very large floods in the distant past caused by tsunamis and probably meteors or earth quakes but not world wide floods. Even Leonardo da Vinci didnt think there had been a world flood, because of strata he saw......

I know about natural selection.

How about you explain gene depletion.

If you can't present better arguments and just keep repeating yourself with writings of no substance, please do not waste my time. In the other thread i was really bored with your empty rhetoric.

I gave you plenty of evidence that showed the great flood and evidence that showed the flaws with the fossil record.

Concerning Da Vinci was he better equipped to understand flood data and strata evidence over todays scientist ? Was it Da Vinci discovering fossil graveyards that showed many different organisms being buried alive together by strata ?

How many global flood legends are there ? kinda trumps Da Vinci now don't it.



Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.

These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided. The overwhelming consistency among flood legends found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin (the Bible's record), but oral transcription has changed the details through time.

Perhaps the second most important historical account of a global flood can be found in a Babylonian flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the Biblical and Babylonian accounts are compared, a number of outstanding similarities are found that leave no doubt these stories are rooted in the same event or oral tradition.

BABYLONIAN BIBLE
Take the seed of all creatures aboard the ship Gen. 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring.
I boarded the ship and closed the door. Gen. 7:1 Come into the Ark
Gen. 7:16 The Lord shut him in.
I sent out a dove . . . The dove went, then came back, no resting-place appeared for it, so it returned. Gen. 8:8 He sent out a dove...But the dove found no resting-place . . . and she returned.
Then I sent out a raven . .it was the waters receding, it ate, it flew about to and fro, it did not return. Gen. 8:7 He sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the Earth.
I made a libation on the peak of the mountain. Gen. 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord (on the mountain) and offered burnt offerings.


Source Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life

Oh and i have seen some figures higher then 500 global flood legends.

Oh and who said anything about adult animals on the ark,don't you think it would have had made more sense to take juveniles on the ark ?

So in other words, you cant explain gene depletion.

The Jews believe the animals on the ark "abstained from procreation". That suggests the animals were adults. The Jews knew the truth..........according to you.

Edit- If the bible gives so much detail on how the ark was built, why would details of how to transport all those animals not be given? Ill tell you why, it never happened.

 

[Youwerecreated]

A book does not prove there is an entity named God somewhere in a place called heaven.

Noahs voyage did not occur. No boat could have carried that many adult animals that "abstained from procreation" according to Jewish tradition. Argentinosaurus itself was up to 130 feet long and weighed about 110 tons. Two would have been way too big for the ark.

Theres also the fact that scientists do not believe a world wide flood ever happened. Other cultures do have their own flood stories complete with their very own "hero" like Noah.

There have been very large floods in the distant past caused by tsunamis and probably meteors or earth quakes but not world wide floods. Even Leonardo da Vinci didnt think there had been a world flood, because of strata he saw......

I know about natural selection.

How about you explain gene depletion.

If you can't present better arguments and just keep repeating yourself with writings of no substance, please do not waste my time. In the other thread i was really bored with your empty rhetoric.

I gave you plenty of evidence that showed the great flood and evidence that showed the flaws with the fossil record.

Concerning Da Vinci was he better equipped to understand flood data and strata evidence over todays scientist ? Was it Da Vinci discovering fossil graveyards that showed many different organisms being buried alive together by strata ?

How many global flood legends are there ? kinda trumps Da Vinci now don't it.



Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.

These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided. The overwhelming consistency among flood legends found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin (the Bible's record), but oral transcription has changed the details through time.

Perhaps the second most important historical account of a global flood can be found in a Babylonian flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the Biblical and Babylonian accounts are compared, a number of outstanding similarities are found that leave no doubt these stories are rooted in the same event or oral tradition.

BABYLONIAN BIBLE
Take the seed of all creatures aboard the ship Gen. 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring.
I boarded the ship and closed the door. Gen. 7:1 Come into the Ark
Gen. 7:16 The Lord shut him in.
I sent out a dove . . . The dove went, then came back, no resting-place appeared for it, so it returned. Gen. 8:8 He sent out a dove...But the dove found no resting-place . . . and she returned.
Then I sent out a raven . .it was the waters receding, it ate, it flew about to and fro, it did not return. Gen. 8:7 He sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the Earth.
I made a libation on the peak of the mountain. Gen. 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord (on the mountain) and offered burnt offerings.


Source Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life

Oh and i have seen some figures higher then 500 global flood legends.

Oh and who said anything about adult animals on the ark,don't you think it would have had made more sense to take juveniles on the ark ?

So in other words, you cant explain gene depletion.

The Jews believe the animals on the ark "abstained from procreation". That suggests the animals were adults. The Jews knew the truth..........according to you.

Edit- If the bible gives so much detail on how the ark was built, why would details of how to transport all those animals not be given? Ill tell you why, it never happened.

In the simplest form of explanation i could give i gave and you still don't understand my question to you.

Show me how Gene Depletion + Natural selection produces Macro-evolution ?

I have explained why those two prevent Macro-evolution and i also provided video explaining it as well.

But i'll do it again and hope you can grasp it this time.

A little history Macro-evolution is change from a group lets say a dog that produces over time a pumpkin or something. Micro-evolution is small micro adaptations within a group lets say dog again. This would be changes within the group like color or size or a different breed.

Micro- Adaptations

Fact 1. Produce the same kind of plant or animal. Every living organism has a DNA code barrier that contains Genetic information to produce offspring of the same kind. Cattle produces cattle or dogs produce dogs.However,there are different kinds of cattle and dogs that can be produced from Micro-adaptations. cows that produce more milk or meat and or breeds the same for for dogs. Cattle can't produce non-cattle or dog-can't produce non-dogs.

Fact 2. Micro-Adaptations result from the sorting or the loss of Genetic information. Adaptations can only produce weaker and weaker Gene pools through Gene Depletion. Example of Gene Depletion, if you breed only one breed of dog what are you doing ? you're breeding information out not new information in. So by eliminating Genetic information this is Gene Depletion and it prevents this breed from producung a new breed. This leads to Natural Selection and the gene pool contiues getting smaller making it an impossibility for Macro-evolution to take place where one group will produce a new group.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You're all just educated stupid: Time Cube

You pretend as though the other side is not educated interesting

 

[JScott]

If you can't present better arguments and just keep repeating yourself with writings of no substance, please do not waste my time. In the other thread i was really bored with your empty rhetoric.

I gave you plenty of evidence that showed the great flood and evidence that showed the flaws with the fossil record.

Concerning Da Vinci was he better equipped to understand flood data and strata evidence over todays scientist ? Was it Da Vinci discovering fossil graveyards that showed many different organisms being buried alive together by strata ?

How many global flood legends are there ? kinda trumps Da Vinci now don't it.



Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.

These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided. The overwhelming consistency among flood legends found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin (the Bible's record), but oral transcription has changed the details through time.

Perhaps the second most important historical account of a global flood can be found in a Babylonian flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the Biblical and Babylonian accounts are compared, a number of outstanding similarities are found that leave no doubt these stories are rooted in the same event or oral tradition.

BABYLONIAN BIBLE
Take the seed of all creatures aboard the ship Gen. 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring.
I boarded the ship and closed the door. Gen. 7:1 Come into the Ark
Gen. 7:16 The Lord shut him in.
I sent out a dove . . . The dove went, then came back, no resting-place appeared for it, so it returned. Gen. 8:8 He sent out a dove...But the dove found no resting-place . . . and she returned.
Then I sent out a raven . .it was the waters receding, it ate, it flew about to and fro, it did not return. Gen. 8:7 He sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the Earth.
I made a libation on the peak of the mountain. Gen. 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord (on the mountain) and offered burnt offerings.


Source Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life

Oh and i have seen some figures higher then 500 global flood legends.

Oh and who said anything about adult animals on the ark,don't you think it would have had made more sense to take juveniles on the ark ?

So in other words, you cant explain gene depletion.

The Jews believe the animals on the ark "abstained from procreation". That suggests the animals were adults. The Jews knew the truth..........according to you.

Edit- If the bible gives so much detail on how the ark was built, why would details of how to transport all those animals not be given? Ill tell you why, it never happened.

In the simplest form of explanation i could give i gave and you still don't understand my question to you.

Show me how Gene Depletion + Natural selection produces Macro-evolution ?

I have explained why those two prevent Macro-evolution and i also provided video explaining it as well.

But i'll do it again and hope you can grasp it this time.

A little history Macro-evolution is change from a group lets say a dog that produces over time a pumpkin or something. Micro-evolution is small micro adaptations within a group lets say dog again. This would be changes within the group like color or size or a different breed.

Micro- Adaptations

Fact 1. Produce the same kind of plant or animal. Every living organism has a DNA code barrier that contains Genetic information to produce offspring of the same kind. Cattle produces cattle or dogs produce dogs.However,there are different kinds of cattle and dogs that can be produced from Micro-adaptations. cows that produce more milk or meat and or breeds the same for for dogs. Cattle can't produce non-cattle or dog-can't produce non-dogs.

Fact 2. Micro-Adaptations result from the sorting or the loss of Genetic information. Adaptations can only produce weaker and weaker Gene pools through Gene Depletion. Example of Gene Depletion, if you breed only one breed of dog what are you doing ? you're breeding information out not new information in. So by eliminating Genetic information this is Gene Depletion and it prevents this breed from producung a new breed. This leads to Natural Selection and the gene pool contiues getting smaller making it an impossibility for Macro-evolution to take place where one group will produce a new group.

You see, when you say gene depletion, theres not much on the web about it. gene depletion - Google Search

Of course a dog can not produce a pumpkin. We all know that.