A Country Where Politicians "Do God"

[mattskramer]

Liberalism is just like religion, it has its faithful followers so blind by dogma and creed they are unable to be reasoned with.

I feel the same way about the ultra religious far right-wing conservatives.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I feel the same way about the ultra religious far right-wing conservatives.

Anyone to far in one direct, left or right is someone to worry about. We do not need extremists running our country, be they left or right. What is so funny is Bush is no Extremist. That you are so far left you think his barely right of center beliefs are extreme is a laugh if it were not so dangerous.

 

[Shogun]

Now you are talking about shit that I know you don't comprehend. Psychoanalysis? Ok, freud! Good grief do you even know how stupid it is to bring up the phrenology of psychology while trying to validate prayer? Damn, dude... It's like kicking a puppy already!

Indeed, laugh at me while you pray for wellness and pop some medication to actually feel better. Maybe you can talk about the mystery of gods plan to an amputee while he is getting fitted for a prosthetic that SCIENCE provides.

prayer is no more effective than a hari krishna chanting at an airport.

Hell, were it the case that prayer actually had even the slightest impact on anything besides your state of mind we would call that EVIDENCE.. you know.. EVIDENCE like how the earth rotates around the sun?

 

[Shogun]

Anyone to far in one direct, left or right is someone to worry about. We do not need extremists running our country, be they left or right. What is so funny is Bush is no Extremist. That you are so far left you think his barely right of center beliefs are extreme is a laugh if it were not so dangerous.

yea.. certainly when presidents claim that god tells them to do things it's everyone else who is the extreme leftist!

Hey, I schooled you the other day when you asked me to post evidence.. my trigger finger is itching to draw.. why don't you ask me to do the same thing here?

please, PLEASE skin that smokestack.

 

[mattskramer]

Anyone to far in one direct, left or right is someone to worry about. We do not need extremists running our country, be they left or right. What is so funny is Bush is no Extremist. That you are so far left you think his barely right of center beliefs are extreme is a laugh if it were not so dangerous.

I think that Bush is somewhat right of center. I wish that he were not so quick on the trigger. I was in favor of the Afghanistan war but ambivalent with respect to the Iraq war. I think that Bush went to war too soon. I also think that, once he decided to go to war, he did not send nearly enough men and machinery to take care of business. I criticize him for that too. I think that it would be bad if he were to declare war on Iran any time soon. I wish that he were more to the left, politically, but that would not be dangerous.

I think that more money needs to be distributed to our intelligence work. Investigate Iran. Communicate with other nations concerned about Iran. Ask for Iran to allow us to inspect its nuclear activities. Work with economic sanctions and international pressure as we have been doing. Bush is a bit too much of a clumsy chicken hawk for my liking. Now, how is that a dangerous attitude to have?

 

[Larkinn]

Damn, I thought he could stand up for himself, but thanks for that clarification, which wasn't.

I'm sure he can. I wasn't defending him, I was pointing out the stupidity inherent in your comment.

 

[Shogun]

Just for you, RGS, I'm going to prove that there IS a difference between my secularism and your christianity. Here, just for you, are some shots at atheism!

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to similarly poke fun at your own beliefs. Indeed, RGS, there IS a difference between christian faith and secular reason.

 

[Diuretic]

Just for you, RGS, I'm going to prove that there IS a difference between my secularism and your christianity. Here, just for you, are some shots at atheism!

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to similarly poke fun at your own beliefs. Indeed, RGS, there IS a difference between christian faith and secular reason.

I used to have a tee shirt with a picture of Einstein on the front and the motto was, "Curiousity has its own reason for existence." I remembered that while reading Shogun's post.

There's a natural difference between faith and reason but I think each has its own reason for existence - must have or we wouldn't have them. I suppose as we progress as a species (an assumption I know) we will lose the "faith" bit and probably build up on "reason".

The problem as I see it is that if we all insist on one or the other we'll be involved in endless squabbling. It gets even worse when we try to privilege one over the other or, even more dumb, try to place either where they don't naturally fit.

I contend that faith has no place in politics, for me politics is the venue for reason. But politics has no place in religion, for me religion is the venue for faith.

 

[midcan5]

"To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against the liberty of conscience, which is one of the foundations of American life." - Roosevelt's letter on religious liberty.

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion." 1797 the treaty of Tripoli, signed by President Washington, and approved by the Senate of the United States

"Declare church and state forever separate and distinct; but each free within their proper spheres." Ulysses S. Grant, Seventh annual message, Congress December 7, 1875

"there is not a shadow of right on the general government to intermeddle with religion. Its least interference with it would be a most flagrant usurpation. I can appeal to my uniform conduct on this subject that I have warmly supported religious freedom." James Madison - father of the Constitution

"I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be non-sectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools." Theodore Roosevelt, Address, New York, October 12, 1915

"Thank God, under our Constitution there was no connection between Church and State, and that in my action as President of the United States I recognized no distinction of creeds in my appointments office." James K. Polk

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You guys crack me up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just so Shogun knows, I am under 3 different Doctors care. Prayer could help me in a piece of mind way but it can not help me in a medical way. I disagree with anyone that thinks God will save them from medical problems. It is clear in the Bible for all to read, until the second coming and the establishment of God's Kingdom on Earth, God does not heal the sick nor take direct action for man at all.

That does not mean Prayer does not help, though. Nor is it some kind of proof God doesn't exist or care. Prayer has a place and has helped millions of people over the years in many ways. It has also lead to direct action by religious people in helping non religious people. It will continue to do so, even though you disbelieve.

 

[Larkinn]

Just so Shogun knows, I am under 3 different Doctors care.

For what?

 

[jillian]

Just so Shogun knows, I am under 3 different Doctors care. Prayer could help me in a piece of mind way but it can not help me in a medical way. I disagree with anyone that thinks God will save them from medical problems. It is clear in the Bible for all to read, until the second coming and the establishment of God's Kingdom on Earth, God does not heal the sick nor take direct action for man at all.

That does not mean Prayer does not help, though. Nor is it some kind of proof God doesn't exist or care. Prayer has a place and has helped millions of people over the years in many ways. It has also lead to direct action by religious people in helping non religious people. It will continue to do so, even though you disbelieve.

They've done studies that have found that prayer assists in healing. Is it because of a placebo effect? Who knows? Perhaps it's that if the mind is comforted, the body heals better.

 

[Diuretic]

As long as it doesn't replace medical care it can't hurt.

 

[jillian]

Kind of like chicken soup. (which, btw, has also been found to have healing properties).

 

[Shogun]

You know, I can fathom a psycho-somatic connection between elated cognition and the body healing itself. I hve been very curious about the whole "God Spot" brain idea. It's not lost on me that charismatic revivals illicit behaviour just like the crowd of fans at a concert. It's not lost on me that meditation, accross faiths, act very similarly. I've seen the cure-all selling charlatans and speaking in tongues on a slow day. I'm sure the desire to believe and the placebo effect plays a part in the physical body's ability to heal itself. Kinda in a Stranger in a Strangeland sort of way.


Do you Grok?

 

[ReillyT]

They've done studies that have found that prayer assists in healing. Is it because of a placebo effect? Who knows? Perhaps it's that if the mind is comforted, the body heals better.

They have also conducted studies that show that prayer hurts.

It was supposed to be good news, like the kind in the Bible. After three years, $2.4 million, and 1.7 million prayers, the biggest and best study ever was supposed to show that the prayers of faraway strangers help patients recover after heart surgery. But things didn't go as ordained. Patients who knowingly received prayers developed more post-surgery complications than did patients who unknowingly received prayers—and patients who were prayed for did no better than patients who weren't prayed for. In fact, patients who received prayers without their knowledge ended up with more major complications than did patients who received no prayers at all.

http://www.slate.com/id/2139373/

Ouch!

 

[jillian]

They have also conducted studies that show that prayer hurts.



http://www.slate.com/id/2139373/

Ouch!

Interesting find. I hadn't seen that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For what?

Why do you need to know?

 

[Larkinn]

Why do you need to know?

I don't...I was asking as a friendly gesture. If you are uncomfortable telling me, thats fine. Whatever it is I hope it gets better.