'A Cloud Still Hangs Over Bhopal'

[L.K.Eder]

oh, the responsible ones can. but warren anderson will not be extradited, e.g. and dow chemical will continue to find a way to dodge paying, as did UCC. UCC did not go under. they still produce and deliver, most of it to dow. they are a wholly owned subsidiary.

So, you think all the "heritage UCC plants" should be shut down? What would that accomplish?

I'm curious, does anyone know how much the Indian Government fined UCC?

shut down? no.

accept responsibility and consequences, including cleaning up the site.

 

[Si modo]

Bayer owns the former carbaryl (what was being produced in Bhopal) manufacturing division of UCC in India. Dow does not.

 

[Samson]

accept responsibility and consequences, including cleaning up the site.

Well?

The linky to an Entire Department in the Provincial Government gives budget expenditures for

ENVIRONMENTAL REHABILITATION-Expenditure Upto March,2009 -Rs. 29.39 Crores

It would appear that the issue certainly isn't being ignored.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Bayer owns the former carbaryl (what was being produced in Bhopal) manufacturing division of UCC in India. Dow does not.

link please.

 

[Si modo]

Bayer owns the former carbaryl (what was being produced in Bhopal) manufacturing division of UCC in India. Dow does not.

link please.

Bayer CropScience - Sevin

Sevin® brand 4F carbaryl insecticide sets the standard for broad — spectrum control of dozens of pests, including beetles, weevils and worms in tree fruit, nut, vine, citrus, vegetable and other crops.

It offers a host of advantages over other insecticides: ease of application, short PHI, no phytotoxicity, and 12-hour re-entry interval.

 

[uscitizen]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Thank the Lawyers? WTF are you babbling about? UCC is no longer in business

Moralilty is replaced by profit in corporations. Why we need regulations on businesses.

We do need some regulation of business.

But, not because chemical companies intentionally poison the communities in which they operate. What would motivate any company to do this? There's no "Morality" question here, only one of incompetance.

Union Carbide's corporate web page:

Union Carbide Corporation

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not exactly capitalism's finest hour.
But fairly typical of them.

Seriously?!?

That's what you have to say about this?

Not exactly the conservative movements finest ambassador, eh?

 

[L.K.Eder]

Bayer owns the former carbaryl (what was being produced in Bhopal) manufacturing division of UCC in India. Dow does not.

link please.

Bayer Cropscience - Sevin

Sevin® brand 4F carbaryl insecticide sets the standard for broad — spectrum control of dozens of pests, including beetles, weevils and worms in tree fruit, nut, vine, citrus, vegetable and other crops.

It offers a host of advantages over other insecticides: ease of application, short PHI, no phytotoxicity, and 12-hour re-entry interval.

i was asking for a link that is supporting your insinuation that bayer owns the UCC subdivision which was responsible for the disaster. not that bayer produces carbaryls.

never mind.

 

[Si modo]

link please.

Bayer Cropscience - Sevin

Sevin® brand 4F carbaryl insecticide sets the standard for broad — spectrum control of dozens of pests, including beetles, weevils and worms in tree fruit, nut, vine, citrus, vegetable and other crops.

It offers a host of advantages over other insecticides: ease of application, short PHI, no phytotoxicity, and 12-hour re-entry interval.

i was asking for a link that is supporting your insinuation that bayer owns the UCC subdivision which was responsible for the disaster. not that bayer produces carbaryls.

never mind.

Dow never owned the the Union Carbide division that manufactured carbaryl (Sevin) in India. Ever. In 2002, Bayer purchased it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Dow Chemical is right that they, as the vulture corporation that swooped in and bought the assets of another that perished in the marketplace are not culpable for its fuck-ups...

A screw up of that nature should have led to criminal prosecutions of an entire board of directors.

The worst thing about the concept of a 'legal corporate identity' is that no entrepreneur is required to be responsible for their actions in the marketplace if they can afford the right congressman and / or attorney.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Thank the Lawyers? WTF are you babbling about? UCC is no longer in business

Moralilty is replaced by profit in corporations. Why we need regulations on businesses.

We do need some regulation of business.

But, not because chemical companies intentionally poison the communities in which they operate. What would motivate any company to do this? There's no "Morality" question here, only one of incompetance.

The US alone has a disgusting history of companies of all kinds intentionally poisoning the communities where they operate as well as being incompetent. Look at Crayola and the associated cancer cluster in part of southeast PA, for just one example. If illegal chemical dumping is more cost effective than paying the fines if caught, some will do it. Regulation serves as deterrence.

BULLSHIT!

Just because Chernobyl was a state owned company fuck up does not make it any less a fuck-up caused by a company (organization) of humans.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Bayer Cropscience - Sevin

i was asking for a link that is supporting your insinuation that bayer owns the UCC subdivision which was responsible for the disaster. not that bayer produces carbaryls.

never mind.

Dow never owned the the Union Carbide division that manufactured carbaryl (Sevin) in India. Ever. In 2002, Bayer purchased it.

i understand what you are saying, but i wanted to see a link.

btw, in 2001 dow purchased UCC without the indian branch which was chopped up, renamed, made up, given a new hairdo, bought by the indian government and then resold in parts.

no way would bayer be so stupid to buy this stinky shit directly from UCC.

no one wants this toxic asset.

just shows how muddying the water is effective in dodging responsibilities.

 

[Samson]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Dow Chemical is right that they, as the vulture corporation that swooped in and bought the assets of another that perished in the marketplace are not culpable for its fuck-ups...

A screw up of that nature should have led to criminal prosecutions of an entire board of directors.

The worst thing about the concept of a 'legal corporate identity' is that no entrepreneur is required to be responsible for their actions in the marketplace if they can afford the right congressman and / or attorney.

Why do you insist on ignoring all the preceeding posts that are evidence that there is remediation and regulation of the chemical industry?

My guess is your intent is to smear corporations with outrageous conspiracy theories, rather than acknowledge anything genuine.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

The question is: Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped the people of Bhopal?

I honestly don't know... Have We, the Share Holders of DOW given Bhopal a second thought since the boo-boo?

 

[AVG-JOE]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

You're right. In that respect, Dow Chemical still bears some responsibility... after all, when you vulture in and consume a fallen rival you should have to eat the liabilities as well as relish in the assets...

Damn the lawyers and politicians! ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

Is there no EPA?

Is there no SuperFund?

What I mean by "History" is the UNregulated pollution that was going on before 1970:

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), independent agency of the U.S. government, with headquarters in Washington, D.C. It was established in 1970 to reduce and control air and water pollution, noise pollution, and radiation and to ensure the safe handling and disposal of toxic substances.

The EPA engages in research, monitoring, and the setting and enforcement of national standards. It administers the Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act of 1980, popularly called “Superfund,” an act aimed at restoring toxic waste sites by making the responsible parties finance their cleanup.

It also issues statements on the impact of operations of other federal agencies that are detrimental to environmental quality, and it supports the antipollution activities of states, municipalities, and public and private groups

The "Superfund" can't even get a program through our politics to clean up Hanford in Washington State... I can't imagine Bhopal India even making their short list.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

Of course we should, and give credit where credit is due. But if we were talking about an individual, would giving to charity and being productive at work negate responsibility for his or her negligence killing a few thousand people? IMO, no. Why should a company be any different?

The short answer is they shouldn't.....

Damn the lawyers and the politicians! ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

And they never caught the disgruntled Indian worker who caused the accident in the first place.

You bring up a valid point...

Perhaps the Board at UC should not have been prosecuted... ​

Seems the 2 criminal acts were that single act and not using the assets of UC to clean up the site first and then provide profits to another corporation.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And they never caught the disgruntled Indian worker who caused the accident in the first place.

Regardless.

Companies today don't allow access to areas of their manufacturing facilities that any one individual can cause such catostropic events. These areas are monitored, and controlled to shut down the process should an intentional or accidental leak occur.

True... if Union Carbide had done that 150 years ago, the only result would have been a spike in newspaper sales for a week.



If we keep evolving this way our children might just reach the stars.



.

 

[goldcatt]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

Of course we should, and give credit where credit is due. But if we were talking about an individual, would giving to charity and being productive at work negate responsibility for his or her negligence killing a few thousand people? IMO, no. Why should a company be any different?

The short answer is they shouldn't.....

Damn the lawyers and the politicians! ​

Careful what you say about lawyers there, champ.

But I agree wholeheartedly that any system holding corporations to lower standards of responsibility than individuals through th euse of legal loopholes needs a serious overhaul.