A challenge to libs and a slightly different one to conservatives.

[Liability]

For you conservatives out there, go ahead and list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you think need to be fixed -- but do so without qualifying your answers. And try to avoid just mouthing anti-liberal rhetoric.

1. The debt. We will NOT be able to continue our existence as a Republic unless we address this massive problem.

2. Our deviation from the precept of ENUMERATED powers and LIMITED Federal Governmental authority.

3. The mistaken basis for our international relations. Not only are we not the policeman of the world, but we are also not responsible for fixing all of the world's other problems, either. The corrective thing we need to incorporate into our overall foreign policy STARTS with actual national self-interest.

4. Capitalism. Somewhere along the way, the insidious notion that capitalism is wrong has taken root in our culture (education, entertainment, media, etc). It was capitalism that made us a preeminent world power. It made all of us richer, all over the world in fact. I don't deny that there are serious concerns with exploitation and abuse. Those can be addressed and should be but without denigrating capitalism.

5. The Social Contract. If we could address this massive topic honestly and coherently, we would, in my view, in the very process also be attending to the matters of race relations and the immigration question, etc. We, somewhere along the way, stopped thinking of each other in this land as being ONE People. It is the kind of serious mistake we cannot afford; and we need to correct that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM!

Them's fightin' words to lotsa libs.

I propose a more modest discussion.

Submitted: America is a great country, not just in terms of wealth or military might, but in all variety of ways. However, to recognize the greatness of America is NOT the same as being compelled to deny that it has some faults and significant room for improvement and growth.

In my experience, libs seem to focus on the negative side of the ledger and are foaming at the mouth angry with conservatives for focusing (unduly, in the opinion of lots of libs) on the positive side of the ledger.

Conservatives DO tend to focus more on the positive side of the ledger, but in my estimation this is not inconsistent with also acknowledging room for growth.


So, to the libs I pose the following question: can you -- without any qualifications -- list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you like, respect and cherish the most?


For you conservatives out there, go ahead and list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you think need to be fixed -- but do so without qualifying your answers. And try to avoid just mouthing anti-liberal rhetoric.

Once we have that addressed, I have an idea for the next step in the conversation.

(I am curious if this can be accomplished without flames?)

1. Freedom

2. Our physical environment

3. The story of America, i.e. how we became a nation of diversity and continue to be the nation freedom loving people immigrate too and few emigrate from

4. The rule of law

5. The vast majority of the American People

 

[Si modo]

Ravi, of course, did her usual snarky non-sensical thing.

Meh, dig deeper and I find that she values freedom of speech and individual freedoms. Whether those freedoms are only selective (subjectively applied) is a different question.

 

[Liability]

I believe I did. As a person who finds that we have too many laws as it is, I truly believe all we need is one fix for the moment - education - and the rest will follow.

Actually, Si, it appeared to me that you were answering the second question.

Maybe I misread it.

You focused on what thing(s) need to be fixed. Right?

Yes, I did.

See, I want to accept that we will have warts, because we always will. I don't want to legislate the nice, any utopia, make everyone have the same thing, etc.

We can never do that AND value diversity at the same time.

We fix education so that we all can have the opportunity to think competently for ourselves within each persons' intellectual abilities, and I believe acceptance of reality will follow, along with the ability to find ways to make living life as FAIR for everyone as it can be.

ETA: We are a nation of The People. The People are the raw materials going into the product of a nation. Get higher quality raw materials. Dunno, maybe too simplistic or idealistic.

But, that's the second question. What I had just said was that nobody seemed inclined to answer (at least honestly) the first question.

As for the substance of your answer, I see exactly what you are driving at.

It might be overly simplistic. But that's not a problem It's a starting point.

 

[Si modo]

Maybe I'm jumping ahead, but I find that what we all (well, most of us) like about the USA is the same. The HOW we get there or keep it differs.

 

[rightwinger]

My biggest problem with American Exceptionalism is that exceptionalism is something that others should say about you....not something you declare about yourself

 

[Liability]

Ravi, of course, did her usual snarky non-sensical thing.

Meh, dig deeper and I find that she values freedom of speech and individual freedoms. Whether those freedoms are only selective (subjectively applied) is a different question.

Her answer required no further digging. She had a choice, and the choice she made was to answer in her always snarky prissy manner.

I am not saying that she doesn't have some "world view." She might. But her answer provided no true hint of it and it certainly didn't honestly answer the question.

That's ok. She's not under any obligation. Still, what she did choose to say in response is revealing in its own way.

 

[Si modo]

Actually, Si, it appeared to me that you were answering the second question.

Maybe I misread it.

You focused on what thing(s) need to be fixed. Right?

Yes, I did.

See, I want to accept that we will have warts, because we always will. I don't want to legislate the nice, any utopia, make everyone have the same thing, etc.

We can never do that AND value diversity at the same time.

We fix education so that we all can have the opportunity to think competently for ourselves within each persons' intellectual abilities, and I believe acceptance of reality will follow, along with the ability to find ways to make living life as FAIR for everyone as it can be.

ETA: We are a nation of The People. The People are the raw materials going into the product of a nation. Get higher quality raw materials. Dunno, maybe too simplistic or idealistic.

But, that's the second question. What I had just said was that nobody seemed inclined to answer (at least honestly) the first question.

As for the substance of your answer, I see exactly what you are driving at.

It might be overly simplistic. But that's not a problem It's a starting point.

Ahhhh, my bad. I thought you were taking about both questions.

I see.

But, my comment about Rav's answer still stands as valid, IMO. Yeah, there was snark there and that's Rav's style. Go with the substance....just a suggestion.

 

[Liability]

Maybe I'm jumping ahead, but I find that what we all (well, most of us) like about the USA is the same. The HOW we get there or keep it differs.

No. I think that's probably a fair observation.

 

[Liability]

My biggest problem with American Exceptionalism is that exceptionalism is something that others should say about you....not something you declare about yourself

Maybe. Maybe not.

But it's not the question.

 

[Liability]

Yes, I did.

See, I want to accept that we will have warts, because we always will. I don't want to legislate the nice, any utopia, make everyone have the same thing, etc.

We can never do that AND value diversity at the same time.

We fix education so that we all can have the opportunity to think competently for ourselves within each persons' intellectual abilities, and I believe acceptance of reality will follow, along with the ability to find ways to make living life as FAIR for everyone as it can be.

ETA: We are a nation of The People. The People are the raw materials going into the product of a nation. Get higher quality raw materials. Dunno, maybe too simplistic or idealistic.

But, that's the second question. What I had just said was that nobody seemed inclined to answer (at least honestly) the first question.

As for the substance of your answer, I see exactly what you are driving at.

It might be overly simplistic. But that's not a problem It's a starting point.

Ahhhh, my bad. I thought you were taking about both questions.

I see.

But, my comment about Rav's answer still stands as valid, IMO. Yeah, there was snark there and that's Rav's style. Go with the substance....just a suggestion.

Ravi didn't answer, though.

You and I both recognize exactly what she was saying. In the process, she did precisely what she was asked not to engage in. That's her right, but it is not an honest answer to the question nor in keeping with the premise of the thread.

 

[rightwinger]

list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you like, respect and cherish the most?

1. No country has ever had as much power as the US and used it less
2. The US has not used war to expand our territory or force ideology
3. The culture of the US is the most dominant in the world. We have done it through media and example rather than force
4. The US culture is the most open in the world. It is constantly evolving and has been open to all ethnicities, religions and races
5. The US has contributed more to technological advances in the world than any other nation.

 

[Si modo]

list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you like, respect and cherish the most?

1. No country has ever had as much power as the US and used it less
2. The US has not used war to expand our territory or force ideology
3. The culture of the US is the most dominant in the world. We have done it through media and example rather than force
4. The US culture is the most open in the world. It is constantly evolving and has been open to all ethnicities, religions and races
5. The US has contributed more to technological advances in the world than any other nation.

Awesome answer! Totally agree.

 

[Liability]

As a libertarian, who will probably find things that need fixing from a right AND a left perspective, I'm not sure where I fit in with this thread.

Some of the things that I think need fixing from a conservative standpoint, most of the other conservatives here wouldn't agree with.

I did not mean to overlook your reply, but now that I got back to it, I guess I am at a loss to address it anyway. My problem is that I don't know what you mean.

So, forget the liberal and conservative aspect of my OP questions. Just provide a list (I guess) of the things you think need to be corrected?

Maybe that will work for you.

 

[jillian]

I appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread but lez be honest, it ain't gonna work out.

I know at least one other person here agrees with your prediction.

My attitude is "wait and see."

There are plenty of flame-oriented threads. I am curious to see if anybody is interested in "rising to the bait" of a thread designed to avoid it. And if so, how many? And will it last?

The right to live free of others' religious beliefs.
A national parks service that is second to none.
Our justice system .. With all it's flaws, it's still one of the best, if not THE best.
Diversity of population
Quality of medical practitioners despite issues with health care with delivery

Bonus: Nathan's hot dogs and NYC

 

[NLT]

Conservative
1. Get rid of the IRS. Replace with comsumption Tax
2. Severely reduce the size and authority of the EPA.
3. Stop the war on drugs, legalize and Tax.
4. Stop the restrictions that are put on small business to comply with federal regulations.
5. Stop passing laws that favor minority intrests over the majority.

 

[Si modo]

I appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread but lez be honest, it ain't gonna work out.

I know at least one other person here agrees with your prediction.

My attitude is "wait and see."

There are plenty of flame-oriented threads. I am curious to see if anybody is interested in "rising to the bait" of a thread designed to avoid it. And if so, how many? And will it last?

The right to live free of others' religious beliefs.
A national parks service that is second to none.
Our justice system .. With all it's flaws, it's still one of the best, if not THE best.
Diversity of population
Quality of medical practitioners despite issues with health care with delivery

Bonus: Nathan's hot dogs and NYC

Oh, paaaaaaa-leeez. Hebrew National dogs are simply superior in all respects.

()

 

[jillian]

I know at least one other person here agrees with your prediction.

My attitude is "wait and see."

There are plenty of flame-oriented threads. I am curious to see if anybody is interested in "rising to the bait" of a thread designed to avoid it. And if so, how many? And will it last?

The right to live free of others' religious beliefs.
A national parks service that is second to none.
Our justice system .. With all it's flaws, it's still one of the best, if not THE best.
Diversity of population
Quality of medical practitioners despite issues with health care with delivery

Bonus: Nathan's hot dogs and NYC

Oh, paaaaaaa-leeez. Hebrew National dogs are simply superior in all respects.

()

Hebrew national is a great dog, but it's the whole Nathan's experience... And the taste is pretty close to HN, could go either way on a taste test if made properly.

Have you been to the one in Coney Island?

 

[Si modo]

The right to live free of others' religious beliefs.
A national parks service that is second to none.
Our justice system .. With all it's flaws, it's still one of the best, if not THE best.
Diversity of population
Quality of medical practitioners despite issues with health care with delivery

Bonus: Nathan's hot dogs and NYC

Oh, paaaaaaa-leeez. Hebrew National dogs are simply superior in all respects.

()

Hebrew national is a great dog, but it's the whole Nathan's experience... And the taste is pretty close to HN, could go either way on a taste test if made properly.

Have you been to the one in Coney Island?

No. It's been quite a while since I've been to NYC, too. But, have never been to Coney Island.

Funny, yesterday we were just talking about Nathan's, too. (Fiance's BIL is from NYC.)

 

[jillian]

Conservative
1. Get rid of the IRS. Replace with comsuption Tax
2. Severely reduce the size and authority of the EPA.
3. Stop the war on drugs, legalize and Tax.
4. Stop the restrictions that are put on small business to comply with federal regulations.
5. Stop passing laws that favor minority intrests over the majority.

Your number 1 would place the proportionate tax burden on the poor and middle class;
Your number 2 would screw up our air and water beyond recognition;
I agree with your number 3 as to certain drugs;
"small" businesses which have to comply with many federal regs have to have at least 50 employees.
So we allow to happen what the founders specifically protected against and allow a tyranny of the majority?