A Bit Too Machiavellian Even For Me

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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I can hope it's true:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/what_if_the_nie_is_a_bush_gamb.html

What if the NIE is a Bush gambit?
James Lewis
The NIE report may have been a political move by Bush opponents in the State Department, as many have speculated. Or it could be disinformation. But what if it is something else entirely?

Intelligence breakthroughs are extremely rare and never advertised. The best example may be Britain's ENIGMA breakthrough in stealing a Nazi signals decoding machine , with Polish help. The ENIGMA secret was fiercely guarded at the cost of many Allied lives, and was not revealed until decades after the war ended. Churchill is believed to have allowed the Nazi bombing of Canterbury Cathedral rather than reveal to the Luftwaffe that he knew of it ahead of time.

So the idea that the NIE suddenly flipped from 2005 because of an intelligence breakthrough is pretty unlikely. The Ashgari defection is a possibility, but defectors are double-sided swords. Before the Iraq war, Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to the American side, and proved to be of limited value. He was eventually blackmailed into returning by threatening his family, only to be killed by Saddam's thugs in Baghdad.

The NIE may therefore be a Bush poker gambit, with the aid of Bush-hating liberals from the State Department. The Bush administration has become rather expert at deploying the relentless anti-Bush Left for its own purposes. The Left has made itself completely predictable, and a predictable poker player can be beaten.

A deliberately deceptive NIE could have two purposes.

1. It could pressure Israel and the Arabs.

2. It could mislead Ahmadi-Nejad.

Take the first possibility. With Khomeinist nukes on the horizon, both Israel and the Arabs are under unprecedented pressure. If you're Israel, and in A'jad's gunsights, you want American protection, and if possible, a preemptive strike. At the very least you want American cooperation in clearing the path for an Israel Air Force strike on known nuclear facilities in Iran, and US help in containing any blowback. The NIE tells you you're on your own until some time in 2010-2015. (But notice that the 2010 date is only just 2 years and a few days away, just one year later than the current Israeli estimate of 2009).

The Arabs would be under intense pressure for exactly the same reason. Above all they don't want a nuclear Iran next door, threatening each and every one of them. Strategically, Iran wants to control the OPEC price, as A'jad has made very clear. Ideologically, Iran's political Shiite branch of Islam wants to wrest control over Mecca and Medina from the Saudis, the key to Khomeinist control over the Muslim world. During Khomeini's time in power, Tehran sponsored an uprising of Shiite pilgrims to Mecca, which the Saudis have never forgotten. (The Saudis have only controlled Mecca and Medina for less than 100 years, and could be unseated by a powerful Iran-sponsored coup, backed by a nuclear threat against Riyadh.)

So if America seems lax against the Khomeinist rush to nukes, both Arabs and Israelis are put under tremendous pressure. The reason is the apparent failure of the Annapolis conference to produce a breakthrough. The details are still obscure, but the goals are pretty clear: Israel is under pressure to yield more of the West Bank and parts of Jerusalem, while the Arabs are expected to give open diplomatic recognition to Israel. For Israel that may seem like a dangerously bad bargain, which is why Olmert and Livni refused to go along with it. They could not go back to the Knesseth and expect it to win support.

That may change once the Israeli public and political system think through the implications of the NIE, which suggests that Israel's lone superpower ally could reduce its protection in the case of an Iranian attack. The Bush-Rice move may aim to force the entire Israeli political system to take difficult risks to empower the Palestinians. A Palestinian state as such is not at issue; Israel wants that, if for no other reason than to have some state authority be responsible for any attacks on itself. Nor is a symbolic PA presence in Jerusalem much of a problem. The Palestinians want more, because they, too, have to go back home and be able to present an unexpected "gift" to their followers. Otherwise Hamas will kill them, literally and politically.

So pressure on Israel could be one reason for the NIE. Pressure on the Arabs is another, as mentioned above. The massed gents of the Arab leagues, dressed in flowing robes, reacted like Dracula to a cross when confronted with Tzipi Livni. They simply could not bring themselves to shake hands in public. That's partly because of Livni's gender (even A'jad got into trouble from his enemies when he was seen touching an Iranian woman in public), and partly because the Saudis may be victims of their own hate-Israel propaganda campaign. You can't insist on wall-to-wall hate propaganda all your life without soaking it up yourself. And of course the Arabs know the fate of Saddat, after he was photographed kissing Golda Meir on the cheek during his breakthrough visit to Jerusalem.

What about the Iranians? A'jad celebrated the new NIE as a victory for the Khomeini cult. It helped his reputation at home. But it didn't stop France and Germany, which are genuinely freaked out by the Iranian danger, from demanding an increase in UN sanctions against Tehran a few days later. The Europeans didn't go back to sleep after the sort-of-reassuring US NIE. Even China has signaled it may be on board for stronger sanctions.

What the new NIE might do for the Iranians is lull them into thinking they are in less danger from a preemptive US-Israeli strike for the coming year. They know the Israelis would have difficulty striking their nuclear facilities without American cooperation. (It could be done, but not in a sustained bombing campaign.) Same thing we we're accused of doing to Saddam in the lead up to the First Gulf War, misleading into a false sense of impotence.
 
I'd say there's way too much fantasy there.

Occum's razor, dear, Occum's razor......

I know, I know, but if it comes to pass, I'll be shouting, I told you so! :eusa_dance:
 
Wait...you're hoping that Iran actually does have a nuclear weapons program? Why on earth would you hope for that? Its actually good news that they don't have one. Why would you want and hope for them to actually have one?
 
Deadcandance: Wait...you're hoping that Iran actually does have a nuclear weapons program? Why on earth would you hope for that? Its actually good news that they don't have one. Why would you want and hope for them to actually have one?

I know, I know, but if it comes to pass, I'll be shouting, I told you so! :eusa_dance:


Oh, I see. I just got to this post. You're hoping that iran does have a nuclear weapons program, so you can say "I told you so".

This would be the classic example of putting partisan pride, about american interests.
 
Wait...you're hoping that Iran actually does have a nuclear weapons program? Why on earth would you hope for that? Its actually good news that they don't have one. Why would you want and hope for them to actually have one?

Wait ... why do you continue to ignore the fact that the IAEA has stated Iran indeed DOES have a nuclear weapons program? That it is currently not active does not mean it does not exist.
 
Wait ... why do you continue to ignore the fact that the IAEA has stated Iran indeed DOES have a nuclear weapons program? That it is currently not active does not mean it does not exist.

Gunny he's not going to change. Not going to get a sense of humor. Not going to see nuance. Not going to read between the lines.

The only one I have on ignore, literally is eots, most others that are annoying, I can ignore on my own. ;)
 
Gunny he's not going to change. Not going to get a sense of humor. Not going to see nuance. Not going to read between the lines.

The only one I have on ignore, literally is eots, most others that are annoying, I can ignore on my own. ;)

But it just looks so nice pointing it out in black and white. :rofl:
 
You lost me at liberals being "predictable". If being outraged in general is "predictable" and to even classify it as such is not only a lie but an abomination also. Anyone who behaves or speaks such propaganda should be considered an enemy of truth in its simplest forms.
 
Gunny he's not going to change. Not going to get a sense of humor. Not going to see nuance. Not going to read between the lines.

The only one I have on ignore, literally is eots, most others that are annoying, I can ignore on my own. ;)

And here's that "holier than thou" thing I was talking about GunnyL. How ironic. :eusa_whistle:
 
Why? Seems the rest of us could read it and put it in perspective. :eusa_think:

I admit I enjoy conspiracy theories even while I hope I maintain a reasonable skepticism re most of the hype surrounding them.

Our president has adopted some policies/principles that I cannot personally endorse, he has made some serious mistakes on some things, and he has misjudged others. But I can't think of anybody who really knows him and who does not have political motives who would describe him as dishonest, duplicitous, or dumb.

I think it odd that a government agency would declare one point of view without qualification and in a matter of months take the opposite position without qualification. I think the timing of the reverse to also be fascinating as is the fact that nobody much seems to be questioning this.

So would the President indeed be dumb like a fox here? It will be interesting to see where we are 90 - 120 days from now.

picmisunderestimated.gif
 
Oh, and while we're on the subject, here's the latest from the Rasmussen polling group re the public's take on this thing:

Just 18% of American voters believe that Iran has halted its nuclear weapons program. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 66% disagree and say Iran has not stopped its nuclear weapons program. Twenty-one percent (21%) of men believe Iran has stopped the weapons development along with 16% of women (see crosstabs).

The survey was conducted following release of a government report saying that Iran halted its nuclear weapons development program in 2003.

The Rasmussen Reports survey also found that 67% of American voters believe that Iran remains a threat to the national security of the United States. Only 19% disagree while 14% are not sure.

Fifty-nine percent (59%) believe that the United States should continue sanctions against Iran. Twenty percent (20%) disagree and 21% are not sure.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/general_current_events/just_18_believe_iran_has_stopped_nuclear_weapons_development_program
 

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