A BIG debate on Israel/Palestine Nakba

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuD-UbmiBT4&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4wq74kPOW4&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBoAmylupHM&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llx56yZuCMw&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]

 

[PoliticalChic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuD-UbmiBT4&feature=related

A specter is haunting the prospective Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations—the specter of the Nakba. The literal meaning of the Arabic word is “disaster”; but in its current, expansive usage, it connotes a historical catastrophe inflicted on an innocent and blameless people (in this case, the Palestinians) by an overpowering outside force (international Zionism). The Nakba is the heart of the Palestinians’ backward-looking national narrative, which depicts the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 as the original sin that dispossessed the land’s native people. Every year, on the anniversary of Israel’s independence, more and more Palestinians (including Arab citizens of Israel) commemorate the Nakba with pageants that express longing for a lost paradise. Every year, the legend grows of the crimes committed against the Palestinians in 1948, crimes now routinely equated with the Holocaust. Echoing the Nakba narrative is an international coalition of leftists that celebrates the Palestinians as the quintessential Other, the last victims of Western racism and colonialism.
http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_3_nakba.html

 

[georgephillip]

"From the above perspective, and according to all available serious historical analyses, Al-Nakba was not a sudden happening that came from nowhere.

"What happened in 1947-1948 was a culmination of a colonial settler process, whose aim was (and continues to be) to dislodge the indigenous Arab population of Palestine and replace them with Zionist Jewish settlers from other countries.

"These settlers and their descendents spearheaded a systematic process, which started in the early twenties of the last century, of cleansing the land from its Palestinian population, and transforming it to become an extension of the globalized capitalist center."

Khalil Nakhleh...

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuD-UbmiBT4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4wq74kPOW4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBoAmylupHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llx56yZuCMw&feature=related

The three commentators seem to agree that the problem is not that the Palestinians were expelled/left/fled their homes, but that they were never allowed back; the answer is simple, they should now be allowed back.

 

[docmauser1]

The three commentators seem to agree that the problem is not that the Palestinians were expelled/left/fled their homes, but that they were never allowed back; the answer is simple, they should now be allowed back.

When 12 mln. germans are returned to Poland and the Czech republic, then we will talk, of course.

 

[Marc39]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuD-UbmiBT4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[/qu...]1948 - Morris, Benny - Yale University Press

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

The three commentators seem to agree that the problem is not that the Palestinians were expelled/left/fled their homes, but that they were never allowed back; the answer is simple, they should now be allowed back.

When 12 mln. germans are returned to Poland and the Czech republic, then we will talk, of course.

Whats that to do with Palestine

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuD-UbmiBT4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[/qu...e Jerries just supplied the zyklon-B :cuckoo:

 

[Marc39]

The three commentators seem to agree that the problem is not that the Palestinians were expelled/left/fled their homes, but that they were never allowed back; the answer is simple, they should now be allowed back.

The author of the defintive history of the 1948 war found Arabs expelled each other in an attempt to commit another Jewish Holocaust.

Yeh right, thats like saying the Jews exterminated each other, the Jerries just supplied the zyklon-B

Yeh right...Bloodthirsty Arab savages attacking innocent people--- No way!

"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

Yeh right, thats like saying the Jews exterminated each other, the Jerries just supplied the zyklon-B

Why are arabs afraid of their past?

 

[Marc39]

The three commentators seem to agree that the problem is not that the Palestinians were expelled/left/fled their homes, but that they were never allowed back; the answer is simple, they should now be allowed back.

The author of the defintive history of the 1948 war found Arabs expelled each other in an attempt to commit another Jewish Holocaust.

Yeh right, thats like saying the Jews exterminated each other, the Jerries just supplied the zyklon-B

Arabs attacked Jews, causing their own expulsion. Now, even you know.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis edifies...

Between 1947 and 1949 a large part of the Arab inhabitants of the territories included in the new state of Israel left their homes and took refuge on the West Bank, in the Gaza Strip, and in the neighboring countries.

The Israelis claim that they left at the instigation of their own leaders, who told them to go so as not to interfere with the movements of troops, and promised them that they would return in the wake of the triumphant Arab armies very shortly. The Arabs maintain that they were driven out by the Israelis. Both arguments are true; both are false. Some were undoubtedly told to go by their own leaders; some, notably in the strategically vital corridor between Jerusalem and the coast, were ordered to leave by the advancing Israeli troops. The great majority, like countless millions of refugees elsewhere, left their homes amid the confusion and panic of invasion and war—one more unhappy part of the vast movement of populations which occurred in the aftermath of World War II.

As the Poles fled from the eastern areas seized by the Russians, as the Germans fled from East German territories annexed by the Poles, as millions of Muslims and Hindus fled from India to Pakistan and from Pakistan to India, so too did great numbers of Arabs flee from Palestine to the neighboring Arab states while large numbers of Jews, most of them previously unaffected by Zionist ideology, fled from the tensions which had arisen in the Arab states to the relative safety of Israel.

At the time it was hoped that this problem would be resolved, like the refugee problems in Eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent, and that the Arab refugees would be partly resettled in the Arab countries, partly returned to their homes. This did not happen, and with the exception of Jordan, the Arab governments made a point of not according citizenship to the refugees and of opposing their resettlement.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1288039171&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

 

[Marc39]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

Nazi Georgie, if you spent more time on your life and less time obsessing on Israel, you might not be such an utter failure in life. Just sayin'

 

[P F Tinmore]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

Then after kicking out the Palestinians they would go down and rob the bank.

 

[Marc39]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

Then after kicking out the Palestinians they would go down and rob the bank.

There are no Palestinians, stupid little boy. You also believe in the Tooth Fairy, punk ass?

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

Myths of the Middle East

Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...

Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

Then after kicking out the Palestinians they would go down and rob the bank.

Stupid little boy. Arabs fled in a war they initiated against Israel. Your history lesson for the day, shithead.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis knows better, stupid little boy...

Between 1947 and 1949 a large part of the Arab inhabitants of the territories included in the new state of Israel left their homes and took refuge on the West Bank, in the Gaza Strip, and in the neighboring countries. The Israelis claim that they left at the instigation of their own leaders, who told them to go so as not to interfere with the movements of troops, and promised them that they would return in the wake of the triumphant Arab armies very shortly. The Arabs maintain that they were driven out by the Israelis. Both arguments are true; both are false.

Some were undoubtedly told to go by their own leaders; some, notably in the strategically vital corridor between Jerusalem and the coast, were ordered to leave by the advancing Israeli troops. The great majority, like countless millions of refugees elsewhere, left their homes amid the confusion and panic of invasion and war—one more unhappy part of the vast movement of populations which occurred in the aftermath of World War II.

As the Poles fled from the eastern areas seized by the Russians, as the Germans fled from East German territories annexed by the Poles, as millions of Muslims and Hindus fled from India to Pakistan and from Pakistan to India, so too did great numbers of Arabs flee from Palestine to the neighboring Arab states while large numbers of Jews, most of them previously unaffected by Zionist ideology, fled from the tensions which had arisen in the Arab states to the relative safety of Israel.

At the time it was hoped that this problem would be resolved, like the refugee problems in Eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent, and that the Arab refugees would be partly resettled in the Arab countries, partly returned to their homes. This did not happen, and with the exception of Jordan, the Arab governments made a point of not according citizenship to the refugees and of opposing their resettlement.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Mid way through his article "Olmert and the Jackals" Uri Avnery paraphrases Lord Acton: "'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'"

"In the same vein, we say that occupation corrupts, and total occupation corrupts totally."

Uri continues:

"Ehud Olmert is the typical product of the cynicism and lawlessness that have infected this country in the 41 years of occupation.

"That does not mean that there was no corruption before. There certainly was.

"In my view, the corruption was born together with the state, and not by accident. A lot has been said about the Naqba on the occasion of Israel's 60th anniversary.

"But one phenomenon that accompanied the Naqba is consistently ignored: the massive theft of abandoned Arab property.

"In the course of the 1948 flight and expulsion, some 100 to 150 thousand Arab families abandoned their homes.

"Many of them lived in simple dwellings, but not a few were living in elegant houses in Jaffa, Jerusalem and Haifa.

"What happened to the interior of these homes?

"To the tens of thousands of expensive carpets, fauteuils, refrigerators, wardrobes, pianos?

"Where did the inventories of shops and stores go?

"They disappeared."

Then after kicking out the Palestinians they would go down and rob the bank.

Stupid little boy. Arabs fled in a war they initiated against Israel. Your history lesson for the day, shithead.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis knows better, stupid little boy...

Between 1947 and 1949 a large part of the Arab inhabitants of the territories included in the new state of Israel left their homes and took refuge on the West Bank, in the Gaza Strip, and in the neighboring countries. The Israelis claim that they left at the instigation of their own leaders, who told them to go so as not to interfere with the movements of troops, and promised them that they would return in the wake of the triumphant Arab armies very shortly. The Arabs maintain that they were driven out by the Israelis. Both arguments are true; both are false.

Some were undoubtedly told to go by their own leaders; some, notably in the strategically vital corridor between Jerusalem and the coast, were ordered to leave by the advancing Israeli troops. The great majority, like countless millions of refugees elsewhere, left their homes amid the confusion and panic of invasion and war—one more unhappy part of the vast movement of populations which occurred in the aftermath of World War II.

As the Poles fled from the eastern areas seized by the Russians, as the Germans fled from East German territories annexed by the Poles, as millions of Muslims and Hindus fled from India to Pakistan and from Pakistan to India, so too did great numbers of Arabs flee from Palestine to the neighboring Arab states while large numbers of Jews, most of them previously unaffected by Zionist ideology, fled from the tensions which had arisen in the Arab states to the relative safety of Israel.

At the time it was hoped that this problem would be resolved, like the refugee problems in Eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent, and that the Arab refugees would be partly resettled in the Arab countries, partly returned to their homes. This did not happen, and with the exception of Jordan, the Arab governments made a point of not according citizenship to the refugees and of opposing their resettlement.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

What does that have to do with the Jews robbing the banks after kicking out the Palestinians?

 

[Marc39]

Then after kicking out the Palestinians they would go down and rob the bank.

Stupid little boy. Arabs fled in a war they initiated against Israel. Your history lesson for the day, shithead.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis knows better, stupid little boy...

Between 1947 and 1949 a large part of the Arab inhabitants of the territories included in the new state of Israel left their homes and took refuge on the West Bank, in the Gaza Strip, and in the neighboring countries. The Israelis claim that they left at the instigation of their own leaders, who told them to go so as not to interfere with the movements of troops, and promised them that they would return in the wake of the triumphant Arab armies very shortly. The Arabs maintain that they were driven out by the Israelis. Both arguments are true; both are false.

Some were undoubtedly told to go by their own leaders; some, notably in the strategically vital corridor between Jerusalem and the coast, were ordered to leave by the advancing Israeli troops. The great majority, like countless millions of refugees elsewhere, left their homes amid the confusion and panic of invasion and war—one more unhappy part of the vast movement of populations which occurred in the aftermath of World War II.

As the Poles fled from the eastern areas seized by the Russians, as the Germans fled from East German territories annexed by the Poles, as millions of Muslims and Hindus fled from India to Pakistan and from Pakistan to India, so too did great numbers of Arabs flee from Palestine to the neighboring Arab states while large numbers of Jews, most of them previously unaffected by Zionist ideology, fled from the tensions which had arisen in the Arab states to the relative safety of Israel.

At the time it was hoped that this problem would be resolved, like the refugee problems in Eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent, and that the Arab refugees would be partly resettled in the Arab countries, partly returned to their homes. This did not happen, and with the exception of Jordan, the Arab governments made a point of not according citizenship to the refugees and of opposing their resettlement.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

What does that have to do with the Jews robbing the banks after kicking out the Palestinians?

Stupid little boy. Learn to read basic English, dumb little shit. Arabs initiated war with Israel and other Arabs ran away.

 

[georgephillip]

"They Disappeared

"Some of them did reach government storerooms and were distributed to new immigrants. I have never seen a report on this.

"The huge majority were just stolen.

"Generally, not by the combat soldiers who captured these places. They fought and moved on. But after them came the rear echelon, the transport and quartermaster troops, the cronies of people in power, who came with lorries and trucks and loaded up everything they came across.

That was no secret. We knew and talked about this at the time. "For years one could see the sofas and armchairs covered with velvet draping in private living rooms and offices. But the phenomenon was never investigated, and later on was smothered and suppressed.

"I have spoken about this several times in the Knesset. I mentioned the Biblical story of Achan, the son of Carmi, who during the conquest of Jericho violated God's command not to plunder. As punishment, the Israelites were routed at the next battle.

"'Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.' (Joshua 7:11)

"Joshua executed Achan and his whole family by stoning. He was for genocide of the Canaanites but against plundering."

Today's elite Jews have no problem with plunder or genocide.

Congratulations.

Maybe you'll be Christians in Heaven.