A better way to crack down on illegal immigration

[The Rabbi]

The fallacy in your argument is that enforcement will try up jobs. That is flatly not true. Obviously, you are not in business in any way shape or form other than as an employee.

Still waiting to hear how companies hire illegals......

 

[JakeStarkey]

Immaterial, Rab.

 

[The Rabbi]

Immaterial, Rab.

It's immaterial because you can't answer the question.

The answer is they don't. They advertise positions and people come apply. They are required to get some form of ID verifying status. I can assure you they have verifications for every employee, including the illegals.
Employers would find their pools of potential hires severely curtailed, so much so they would need to raise wages to attract similar workers. And that would come likely at the expense of profitability, making the business unprofitable, therefore not worth continuing. The legal workers and illegal workers alike would share unemployment.

Or hadn't you thought of all that?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your question is immaterial, Rab. Businesses hire illegals because they can with very little fear of being punished. Enforce the laws, the illegals go away, businesses will have to hire legals.

That is obvious, and it is obvious that you are wrong. Your reasoning is shallow and pathetic and sad. Hatred corrodes the soul, Rab, and yours is showing.

 

[ihopehefails]

The first thing I would do is to stop punishing people who hire illegals since that just drives it underground but make it so that if you hire someone who is not a citizen of the Untied States then you pay a 150% tax on their wages. This would discourage the hiring of illegals since the cost would be prohibitive but lets say an employer decided to hire an illegal anyways and just paid the tax on that employee. That employer would then have to report who he was paying that tax on and then the immigration authorities would know that person is a illegal. The arrest can be made. End of story.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think this is a really bad idea.

1) Charging a 150% tax on the wages of non-citizens would effect immigrants who are here legally.

2) Do you honestly think that companies are going to pay any taxes on someone they are illegally employing under the table when the whole reason they are employing them under the table is to avoid taxes in the first place? You pass the tax and it will do absolutely nothing to stop illegal immigration. It will just stop legal immigration.

Much easier way is to make immigration easier but require anyone who came here illegally to return home and come back the legal way.

How about people who don't have a right to work here then?

I think that most companies are law abiding simply because they don't want their liveliehood destroyed by the government. There will be some that illegally not pay the tax but most will comply and since they have an alternative then they would hire someone who they don't have to pay the tax on. Companies that don't pay they tax when they are obligated to do so will simply be prosecuted for tax evasion.

 

[ihopehefails]

Punish business for hiring illegals. Jail the managers who do it. Fine the companies out the wahoo. Keep doing it. Guess what? They will stop: either stop hiring illegals or will end stop doing business.

Start jailing just a few business owners and the jobs will dry up overnight.

The illegals will stream out of the country in the opposite direction

It is the business owners that created the problem by exploiting cheap labor. Let them pay the price

Why should business owners be responsible for enforcing immigration law? I've never understood this...I should be able to hire ANYONE that I want.

Makes more sense to me to enforce prevailing wage laws and let people hire whom they please, pay them a decent wage and deduct the tax from their paycheck.

With my idea they won't be responsible for enforcing immigration law but just be responsible for paying the tax. They can hire all the illegals that they want but they just have to pay the tax.

 

[ihopehefails]

The first thing I would do is to stop punishing people who hire illegals since that just drives it underground but make it so that if you hire someone who is not a citizen of the Untied States then you pay a 150% tax on their wages. This would discourage the hiring of illegals since the cost would be prohibitive but lets say an employer decided to hire an illegal anyways and just paid the tax on that employee. That employer would then have to report who he was paying that tax on and then the immigration authorities would know that person is a illegal. The arrest can be made. End of story.

So wait a minute...motivated by greed but they'll hire illegals and pay MORE to hire them?

Think this concept needs some rethinking.

They won't pay more to hire illegals so they won't hire them to begin with. They will then hire people who have a right to work in the US in order to avoid paying the tax.

 

[LilOlLady]

I would like to add that a strong way to prevent illegal imigration is to make the process of becoming an American citizen quicker. Yes, we need to conduct appropriate background checks on anyone leaving or coming into the country temporarily and permanently. But, there are people who have been living and working in this country for years who are still undocumented. The faster we can effectively grant citizenship to those who wish to come here, the better. If the process were easier, we would be engouraging immigrants to come to this country legally and integrate into society rather than living in the shadows.

I agree with this. The process should be more convenient so that someone wanting to come would think it is easier to apply rather than pay a coyote to haul them across the desert. That would help out.

How is that any difference from amnesty every 20 years? and open borders?

 

[The Rabbi]

Your question is immaterial, Rab. Businesses hire illegals because they can with very little fear of being punished. Enforce the laws, the illegals go away, businesses will have to hire legals.

That is obvious, and it is obvious that you are wrong. Your reasoning is shallow and pathetic and sad. Hatred corrodes the soul, Rab, and yours is showing.

I am still waiting to hear how they go about hiring illegals. You havent addressed the question because you can't. Because you are ignoramus of galactic proportions who can't think beyond Stage One-Half, let along Stage One.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, Rab, you have not addressed the irrefutable fact that the jobs would still be there after the illegals left.

Quit being obstinate when you know you are wrong. You can't make a silly assertion, a la Patek or Diamond or Lonestar, and then ask someone else to refute it with facts. That's not how informed discussion works.

That is exactly why you reactionaries having been getting clobbered the last month in particular on the board.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, Rab, you have not addressed the irrefutable fact that the jobs would still be there after the illegals left.

Quit being obstinate when you know you are wrong. You can't make a silly assertion, a la Patek or Diamond or Lonestar, and then ask someone else to refute it with facts. That's not how informed discussion works.

That is exactly why you reactionaries having been getting clobbered the last month in particular on the board.

Jake, oh why are you so thick? Were you dropped as a child?
I am still waiting to hear how companies hire illegals in the first place. Do they place ads in La Prensa?
If you have a business that is running with illegal labor and you eliminate all their workers what is going to happen to that business? Does the terms "cessation of business", "closure" and "shut down" mean anything to you?
You are the most fact-free poster here. You have failed utterly to post a shred of support for anything youve written. You can't even explain the mechanics of hiring employees.

 

[Angelhair]

Kudos!! to AZ!

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have not, Rab, shown why the jobs will go away. You made the charge first, so you have to support it. You can't. End of argument. You fail.

 

[Terral]

Hi Fails:

The first thing I would do is to stop punishing people who hire illegals since that just drives it underground but make it so that if you hire someone who is not a citizen of the Untied States then you pay a 150% tax on their wages.

Yes. The USA is filled with idiots (#1-10) with a lot of silly ideas. The biggest employer of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals in the USA today is the Federal Government, and nobody is being punished cuckoo ...

This would discourage the hiring of illegals since the cost would be prohibitive but lets say an employer decided to hire an illegal anyways and just paid the tax on that employee.

No. Throw the people 'hiring' Illegal Aliens into prison and take away their business license for life. Then nobody will hire the Illegal Aliens and they will find their own way back home 'and' these employers will be forced to rehire U.S. workers, which will expand the Consumer Base and the Tax Base and get the USA on the road to recovery.

That employer would then have to report who he was paying that tax on and then the immigration authorities would know that person is a illegal. The arrest can be made. End of story.

We have perfectly good Immigration and Employment Laws (Wiki) that nobody is enforcing, which is destroying the USA as we speak. We The Sheeple must replace the bought-and-paid-for Open Border Lobby Politicians in Washington D.C., or everyone in the USA will continue picking around U.S. Workers in favor of using cheap illegal labor for the 20-Million-Man Illegal Alien Labor Pool.

Our Employment Laws must be 'enforced' at the workplace and those hiring Illegal Aliens must be thrown into prison. That is the same old method used by every other country on earth to protect the JOBS of their citizens. Period.

GL,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi Rabbi:

Jake, oh why are you so thick? Were you dropped as a child?

Attacking other members with nonsense and stupidity is not going to produce a 'better way to crack down on 'hiring' of Illegal Aliens in the USA.'

I am still waiting to hear how companies hire illegals in the first place. Do they place ads in La Prensa?

I live in Florida and I have worked with hundreds and hundreds of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals who laugh in the faces of stupid Americans. Here is how one white guy and one black guy hire fifty Illegal Aliens and put the other local contractors out of business:

1. We have between one and two MILLION goddamned Illegal Aliens running around loose in Florida.

2. Each time we start a new job, the Illegals come out of the woodwork trying to get hired on.

3. The unscrupulous contractor hires his first group of Illegal Aliens on the job site and begins letting his American workers go in favor of using the cheap illegal labor.

4. The foreman tells Juan to bring in his cousins and uncles and brothers rather than run an ad for new workers.

5. All of the white and black workers are let go, after training the Illegal Aliens (of course), with the exception of one or two crew chiefs.

6. The white and black workers go onto unemployment and food stamps, until they eventually go into foreclosure and bankruptcy.

7. The unscrupulous contractor lowers his prices to 'below cost,' which means he gets all the work and the legitimate contractors can no longer compete in the local market.

8. When the other contractors are out of business, then the unscrupulous contractor can raise his prices, use Illegal Aliens, and make a fortune. He can expand his business and destroy the job market for more and more contractors outside his local market.

9. The local consumer and tax base erodes away, because all of the lost wages are going out of the local market to Mexico and parts unknown.

10. The local workers lose their houses, which lowers the value of all the houses in the neighborhood.

11. The local job market implodes and nobody can afford to make an offer on your house when you decide to get out of Dodge.

12. The service sector implodes and the worker displacement cycle escalates out of control, until the local and state budget deficits escalate out of control.

13. The national unemployment rate explodes beyond 20 percent and the entire economy system implodes.

14. The national media blames the banks, when the Federal Government has refused to enforce perfectly good immigration and employment laws; because Americans 'are' really this STUPID ...

GL,

Terral

 

[José]

I agree with most of what Terral said except the "throw employers into prison and take away their livelihood" part. Fines, yes, jail and draconian measures, no. But I think that was only rhetorical anyway.

But the repatriation of millions of foreigners residing in the US for 10 or 20 years IS WELL WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF ANY SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.

Ethnic cleansing would be the forced removal of ancient hispanic communities that predate the USA.

The repatriation of foreigners residing in the US for less than 3 decades DO NOT CONSTITUTE ETHNIC CLEASING BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

violent elimination of an ethnic group: the violent elimination or removal of people from a country or area because of their ethnic backgrounds, by means of genocide or forced expulsion. define ethnic cleansing - Bing DICTIONARY

The creation of an ethnically homogenous geographic area through the elimination of unwanted ethnic groups by deportation, forcible displacement, or genocide. Ethnic cleansing also has involved attempts to remove physical vestiges of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction and desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship. Although some critics of the term have claimed that ethnic cleansing is simply a form of genocide, defenders of the usage have noted that, whereas the murder of an ethnic, racial, or religious group is the primary intention of a genocidal policy, the chief goal of ethnic cleansing is the establishment of homogenous lands, which may be achieved by any of a number of methods including genocide. www.answers.com/topic/ethnic-cleansing

Hmmm. . . nothing about time limits.

 

[Terral]

Hi Jose:

I agree with most of what Terral said except the "throw employers into prison and take away their livelihood" part. Fines, yes, jail and draconian measures, no. But I think that was only rhetorical anyway.

No sir. Throw EVERYONE into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and people will stop hiring Illegal Aliens. That is the way things work all around the world ...

But the repatriation of millions of foreigners residing in the US for 10 or 20 years IS WELL WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF ANY SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.

No!!!! Rewarding 'Illegal Behavior' with U.S. Citizenship is WRONG. Go the hell HOME and come back to America through the FRONT DOOR like the 2 Million Foreign Nationals that Immigrate to America EVERY YEAR. The Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals in the USA right now are LAWBREAKERS and we have enough LAWBREAKERS running around loose in America already. Handing out Illegal Amnesty to Illegal Aliens here ILLEGALLY only reduces what it means to become a 'real' American!!!!

Ethnic cleansing would be the forced removal of ancient hispanic communities that predate the USA.

Listen here, Jose cuckoo: The 20 to 30 MILLION goddamned Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals now running around loose in America are NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. These are 'citizens' of OTHER COUNTRIES squatting in the USA. Handing out Illegal Amnesty to this current batch of Illegal Aliens will only kick the back door wide open to yet another 20 Million goddamned Illegal Aliens in a cycle that NEVER ENDS. No sir. Bush and now Obama CANNOT be trusted to 'enforce' Immigration Laws already on the books, so we cannot trust anyone to enforce any new laws.

The repatriation of foreigners residing in the US for less than 3 decades DO NOT CONSTITUTE ETHNIC CLEASING BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!!

The Illegal Aliens here for 20 years have been breaking the law for 20 YEARS!!!! They ALL need to GO HOME and come back through the front door. That is the ONLY way to become a real American, but the Illegal Aliens care nothing about America; OR they would have come to America through the front door in the first place ...

The only thing worse than the people 'hiring' Illegal Aliens are those among us pandering to Illegal Aliens and those hiring them ....

GL,

Terral